F Ivan Demidov - SKA St. Petersburg, KHL (2024, 5th, MTL)

[TheKrebsCycle]

That Demidov fella is pretty good and an interesting player.

Wonder if there’s a thread for him.

There is 3 . Consult the Michkov and versus thread for more material if needed .

 

[SlafySZN]

There is 3 . Consult the Michkov and versus thread for more material if needed .

Not participating in those.

 

[CanadienShark]

There is 3 . Consult the Michkov and versus thread for more material if needed .

Why do you live in this thread when you never, ever contribute to discussion about Demidov?

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Why do you live in this thread when you never, ever contribute to discussion about Demidov?

That’s not true . I’ve been complimentary in several posts

Not participating in those.

Many are . Good for you though

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Demidov is rookie of the month!

Rookie of the month? 5 minutes TOI and 2 points next game

 

[Alex K]

So are you guys going to talk about Demidov in this thread?

Lol I haven't even realized that it's a Demidov thread untill your comment, thought I just misclicked and opened a Michkov one

 

[dendazen]

So I watch every SKA game and Demidov is just a stud, and it's subtle things really, how he handles the puck, positioning, sense of the game, and for the limited time he gets from the coach he gets to generate tons of offense. Now my question is really why Blackhawks didn't take him 2d, he would of been lethal on Bedard's wing

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Montreal finished 28th overall, 28th overall, and 32nd overall in the last 3 seasons. They will most likely finish at the bottom of the league again this season.

I was surprised when habs fans thought Bergevin was an amazing GM. But it looks like they are brainwashed again with Hughes.

Hes a Devils fan and Hughes has done great rebuilding the team so far of course its easier to sell then to buy but for now we dont have any complaints besides maybe Reinbacher over Michkov

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

So I watch every SKA game and Demidov is just a stud, and it's subtle things really, how he handles the puck, positioning, sense of the game, and for the limited time he gets from the coach he gets to generate tons of offense. Now my question is really why Blackhawks didn't take him 2d, he would of been lethal on Bedard's wing

Teams reach for positional need, especially if that position is RD.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Team needs can be adressed at any time during the season OR the off-season.

The team's overall level of talent can rarely be increased significantly outside of the draft.

I can GUARANTEE you that if we drafted a Michkov every year, we'd have a star-studded roster in no time.

I disagree, especially for wingers. How many contenders have not been able to go all the way though because they lacked a 2C or #2-#3 RHD? High-end Centers and RHD are the hardest positions to fill and it's almost impossible to find one unless you draft them.

If Michkov played center, I wouldn't be arguing with you. I'm also not arguing the impact Michkov will have on Philly but if you're picking top 5 three years in a row and you take 3 wingers, then you're doing this rebuilding thing wrong.

I don't care about star-studded roster, I want a complete team with no glaring holes that will compete for championships. I'm not interested in regular season juggernaut where a couple of guys hit off 100+ points and then get booted in the first round like the Leafs.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Who said he’s a bust if he doesn’t make the team in his d plus 2 season ? Seems a bit straw man ish to me .

It has been referenced to in this thread. The "Maybe he'll become a top 4 D in this league" has been said multiple times already. I also remember around the same time last year we were hearing how Slafkovsky was a bust and never was to amount to anything and how we should have drafted Cooley instead.

Now obviously it'll be hard for Reinbacher to shut down the critiques since he's going to be out 5-6 months but the same people that were crying over the 10 games stretch where Cooley outproduced Slafkovsky are the same ones crying over picking Reinbacher instead of Michkov and are probably going to be the loudest ones pumping their chest if Reinbacher turns out to be the top pairing RHD Montreal drafted him for at 23-25.

Teams reach for positional need, especially if that position is RD.

Or center.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

It has been referenced to in this thread. The "Maybe he'll become a top 4 D in this league" has been said multiple times already. I also remember around the same time last year we were hearing how Slafkovsky was a bust and never was to amount to anything and how we should have drafted Cooley instead.

Now obviously it'll be hard for Reinbacher to shut down the critiques since he's going to be out 5-6 months but the same people that were crying over the 10 games stretch where Cooley outproduced Slafkovsky are the same ones crying over picking Reinbacher instead of Michkov and are probably going to be the loudest ones pumping their chest if Reinbacher turns out to be the top pairing RHD Montreal drafted him for at 23-25.


Or center.

Your claim wasn’t that posters were saying “ Maybe he’ll become a top 4 D “. It was rather “ People are saying that he’s a bust if he doesn’t make the Habs lineup in his D+2 season “ . Fairly different statements/ claims .

 

[Baksfamous112]

Your claim wasn’t that posters were saying “ Maybe he’ll become a top 4 D “. It was rather “ People are saying that he’s a bust if he doesn’t make the Habs lineup in his D+2 season “ . Fairly different statements/ claims .

If you pick a guy #5 overall and people say he has a “chance” to become a top 4 D then yeah, that implies bottom pairing guy and that’s absolutely considered a bust.

Edit; And if there's one guy that Montreal can't afford to bust is Reinbacher. Not because of who was drafted after him but rather because they don't have anyone in the system that can potentially fill the top pairing RHD role and it's next to impossible to find one on the market without creating a massive hole elsewhere. Reinbacher busting would be much harder to get over it than a Demidov for example.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Teams reach for positional need, especially if that position is RD.

This feels like where most draft mistakes get made. Teams rationalize picking for position when the BPA is a player that plays a position they don't need.

The biggest mistake here is assuming you know what your team is going to need or look like 3+ years down the road.

A bad example of this is the Devils picking Nemec 2nd overall in 2022 (though I think you can justify that he really may have been seen as the BPA). The Devils passed over the (IMO) superior prospect in Cooley because it felt like RD was a future need, not knowing we'd draft Casey in the next round and then sign Pesce. Now we have a logjam at RD but could really use a kid like Cooley to center our 3rd line. That's not to say Nemec isn't amazing, but if Devils management knew what the team looked like now, it makes me wonder if they would take Nemec again.

The history of taking defenseman in the top 5 of the draft is pretty ugly in the last 20 years (excluding last few years for because these kids are still developing). Of the 20 dmen drafted in the top 5 from 2004 to 2017, I count only 6-7 true #1 dmen, with 3 complete busts, 7 bottom to mid pair dmen, and 3 #2Ds. The recent history does look a bit more promising, but there's a lot up in the air.

The history is especially bad though when you look at team's drafting big (6'3+) dmen in the top 10. From 2004 - 2017, there were 24 dmen picked in the top 10 that were 6'3+:

13 of which I would consider busts or major disappointments
Griffin Reinhart
Boris Valabik
Dylan McIlrath
Brian Lee
Keaton Ellerby
Cam Barker
Jared Cowen
Ladislav Smid
Haydn Fleury
Karl Alzner
Zach Bogosian
Erik Gudbranson
Rasmus Ristolainen

And 12 who were good enough to be a top pair Dman for 5+ years
Erik Johnson
Darnell Nurse
Dougie Hamilton
Adam Larsson
Hampus Lindholm
Jacob Trouba
Noah Hanifin
Aaron Ekblad
Seth Jones
Mikhail Sergachev
Alex Pietrangelo
Victor Hedman

Even the group of successful players is pretty thin, with a lot of guys who had very short lived primes and who became liabilities by the time they were 30. I would say there's only 3-4 guys on this list who had 10+ year primes where they were top pairing defenseman. Hedman is the only Norris winner of the group.

 

[CanadienShark]

Seriously, does anyone want to talk about Demidov here? @DaveG (sorry to drag you in here)

Demidov constantly impresses this year in limited play. I'm hopeful his minutes improve, so he can dominate the KHL and possibly play some games in Montreal to end this year. Either way, I expect he'll be in Montreal's top 6 as early as next season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Seriously, does anyone want to talk about Demidov here? @DaveG (sorry to drag you in here)

Demidov constantly impresses this year in limited play. I'm hopeful his minutes improve, so he can dominate the KHL and possibly play some games in Montreal to end this year. Either way, I expect he'll be in Montreal's top 6 as early as next season.

Habs should do everything they can to get him over here before the end of the season to get him some exposure to the NHL before the summer.

 

[CanadienShark]

Habs should do everything they can to get him over here before the end of the season to get him some exposure to the NHL before the summer.

Agreed. Partly because we want him around the organization and adapted to NA, partly to actually get him the playing time he deserves.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Seriously, does anyone want to talk about Demidov here? @DaveG (sorry to drag you in here)

Demidov constantly impresses this year in limited play. I'm hopeful his minutes improve, so he can dominate the KHL and possibly play some games in Montreal to end this year. Either way, I expect he'll be in Montreal's top 6 as early as next season.

My favourite part about what I’ve seen so far is that he’s generating chances and creating plays on his own. His success is a direct result of him working hard, competing hard, battling for pucks, getting to the dirty areas, and his involvement in the play.

He doesn’t wait for things to happen or for the play to come to him; he makes things happen and pursues/creates the plays he wants, and he does it with tenacity, pace, and skill. This is a very good sign and exactly what you want in an offensive player.

If he was just another uber skilled offensive floater/perimeter player, I wouldn’t be nearly as excited. He is indeed uber skilled, but he’s also got the compete level and work ethic to match it. That’s a rare combination.

 

[CanadienShark]

My favourite part about what I’ve seen so far is that he’s generating chances and creating plays on his own. His success is a direct result of him working hard, competing hard, battling for pucks, getting to the dirty areas, and his involvement in the play.

He doesn’t wait for things to happen or for the play to come to him; he makes things happen and pursues/creates the plays he wants, and he does it with tenacity, pace, and skill. This is a very good sign and exactly what you want in an offensive player.

If he was just another uber skilled offensive floater/perimeter player, I wouldn’t be nearly as excited. He is indeed uber skilled, but he’s also got the compete level and work ethic to match it. That’s a rare combination.

Yep. He's not getting lucky. He's not relying on teammates (he can play off them well though), but instead he's simply creating stuff himself.

 

[Kiirin]

Stop including the whole fanbase in that.

Reinbacher received online threat when he was selected. The whole fanbase were angry and deflated when they passed on Michkov. The media/fan still talk about it weekly and now daily with the Laine injury + Michkov preason. Many supporters are still very angry about it. There are always supporter that will defend the club no matter what.

Still a good majority of fans including me, never wanted Reinbacher but we still wish he can develop as a good top 4 NHL defenseman.

As pointed out, getting Demidov softened the blow.

I don't know who's the "we" but you don't draft a defenseman with your 5th pick and hope he pans out as a good top 4 defenseman in the league when you can find those guys at around the 14th to 25th pick. If he doesn't turn into a first-pairing RHD then that's sadly a flop of pick and we don't wish that.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Yep. He's not getting lucky. He's not relying on teammates (he can play off them well though), but instead he's simply creating stuff himself.

Call me crazy, but his combination of sublime offensive skill, combined with his tenacity, pace, initiative, and work ethic, along with his willingness to battle and muck in the corners and get to the dirty areas to make plays, reminds me a lot of Crosby, stylistically. Anyone else?

Of course this being HF, I have to add the disclaimer that this is a stylistic comparison only, and not that he’s as talented or the same level of prospect Crosby was, or even that he’s as good at the things mentioned. Hopefully that deters any “Now he’s Crosby lolz, Habs fans amirite?” shit post replies, but if not, oh well.

 

[CanadienShark]

Call me crazy, but his combination of sublime offensive skill, combined with his tenacity, pace, initiative, and work ethic, along with his willingness to battle and muck in the corners and get to the dirty areas to make plays, reminds me a lot of Crosby, stylistically. Anyone else?

Of course this being HF, I have to add the disclaimer that this is a stylistic comparison only, and not that he’s as talented or the same level of prospect Crosby was, or even that he’s as good at the things mentioned. Hopefully that deters any “Now he’s Crosby lolz, Habs fans amirite?” shit post replies, but if not, oh well.

I'm not sure. I don't see him as much of a grinder as Crosby and actually slightly more creative than Crosby, albeit obviously nowhere near as good. Crosby's game is clearly far more translatable. I'm not sure who I could really compare Demidov to.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I don't know who's the "we" but you don't draft a defenseman with your 5th pick and hope he pans out as a good top 4 defenseman in the league when you can find those guys at around the 14th to 25th pick. If he doesn't turn into a first-pairing RHD then that's sadly a flop of pick and we don't wish that.

We is the fanbase but top 4 defenseman is what they had in mind when they drafted him and even Hughes said it himself after that draft.

Why people keep bringing Reinbacher in that discussion...?

Let's close this topic up or start posting on his own thread but let me tell you, if you can get a crazy good legit top 4 defenseman with a 14th overall-25th overall pick sign me up! Any names? Habs could even offer both 1st pick for one. They are not as easy getting as you would make it seems.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm not sure. I don't see him as much of a grinder as Crosby and actually slightly more creative than Crosby, albeit obviously nowhere near as good. Crosby's game is clearly far more translatable. I'm not sure who I could really compare Demidov to.

Crosby is an extremely unique player in that he’s a grinder with generational offensive ability. There’s nobody exactly like him.

Obviously Demidov isn’t as much of a grinder as Crosby, but he does have some of that tenacity, competitiveness, and grit in his game as far as making plays and generating offense from the dirty areas, and even pursuing pucks. That aspect extended beyond offense for Crosby, which we haven’t seen yet from Demidov, but I still see some similarities. Not a perfect comparison by any means, just something I noticed in some plays.

Also, I think Crosby was quite a bit quicker and more explosive skating wise, stronger too. As far as the creative aspect goes, I don’t agree, necessarily. Maybe not as much now, but when he was younger, Crosby could be pretty damn creative at times, just not in a super flashy way like Patrick Kane or Datsyuk and those types.

 

[CanadienShark]

Crosby is an extremely unique player in that he’s a grinder with generational offensive ability. There’s nobody exactly like him.

Obviously Demidov isn’t as much of a grinder as Crosby, but he does have some of that tenacity, competitiveness, and grit in his game as far as making plays and generating offense from the dirty areas, and even pursuing pucks. That aspect extended beyond offense for Crosby, which we haven’t seen yet from Demidov, but I still see some similarities. Not a perfect comparison by any means, just something I noticed in some plays.

Also, I think Crosby was quite a bit quicker and more explosive skating wise, stronger too. As far as the creative aspect goes, I don’t agree, necessarily. Maybe not as much now, but when he was younger, Crosby could be pretty damn creative at times, just not in a flashy way like Patrick Kane or Datsyuk and those types.

Yeah, I see a little more Kucherov in the way of making big brain moves that no one anticipates than Crosby. I think Demidov lacks that power game that Crosby has. I suppose there are some similarities, but I don't personally think they're great comparables. Granted we're discussing two (three) pretty unique players.