Prospect Info: F Isak Rosen (14th Overall, 2021), Assigned to Rochester 12/10

[truthbluth]

In what way was it historically bad?

He had the lowest NHLe among top 15 forwards in his D+1 in 20 years.

 

[RefsIdeas]

The kid still certainly has all the tools but this past year was obviously far from ideal. Part of the reason why I wanted to read that article so bad - to figure out what's wrong. Still, can't help but think how our future might be different if we drafted Wallstedt instead of Rosen (who a lot of people wanted the Sabres to draft at the time - we didn't trade Reinhart until the next day, so we wouldn't have had Levi).

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He had a historically bad D+1. Let’s hope next season is better. I’ll reserve judgement until I see him healthy.

He didn't really do anything his draft year either.

Still plenty of time to develop, but I just didn't want this type of player, especially when goaltending is such a monumental hole on this team, and there were some A-level goaltending prospects available. I prefer to save the boom/bust guys for a little later in the draft.

 

[jmelm]

I think both the player's skill, his rankings at the time of the draft (consensus mid/late teens pick) and our scout's faith in him -- as well as injruies and really not being on the best team for his development -- merits us giving him the benefit of the doubt for this past season.

I will reserve judgement until I see how he does at the upcoming WJCs and, more importantly, how he performs throughout next season. It's far too premature to draw any conclusions yet. It's too easy to judge him against the goalies (which are only there because of people's concerns over Levi & Portillo which may or may not be unfounded) or guys who popped in a way no one say coming, like Othmann or Wyatt Johnston.

This next year will tell the story.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He had the lowest NHLe among top 15 forwards in his D+1 in 20 years.

I think he had among the worst NHLe in his draft year too, among first rounders.

 

[Bendium]

Didn't like this pick from the get go. Do some of these small, quick, skill players make it? Sure. Not that many, and few are dominant. Felt like a wasted pick at the time.....still does.

 

[truthbluth]

I think he had among the worst NHLe in his draft year too, among first rounders.

He did.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

The kid still certainly has all the tools but this past year was obviously far from ideal. Part of the reason why I wanted to read that article so bad - to figure out what's wrong. Still, can't help but think how our future might be different if we drafted Wallstedt instead of Rosen (who a lot of people wanted the Sabres to draft at the time - we didn't trade Reinhart until the next day, so we wouldn't have had Levi).

I kind of wonder if Adams had the framework of that trade worked out and knew Levi was one of the pieces. That's the only reason I could see passing on Wallstedt or Cossa for that matter when you very clearly have a long term need in net and only 2 quality prospects in the system.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

I think he had among the worst NHLe in his draft year too, among first rounders.

You can’t effectively use nhle for an underused player in the SHL as a reflective stat. There is no point as it is not translatable to anything reliable. This was not a pick about his draft year or d+1 stats - it’s projecting his skills 2-3 years out once he fills in. Remember when everyone was dissing on Quinn d+1 performance? How’s that looking now?

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Didn't like this pick from the get go. Do some of these small, quick, skill players make it? Sure. Not that many, and few are dominant. Felt like a wasted pick at the time.....still does.

But thus why Sabres need to draft them in volume…good/smart teams with lots of picks take a bunch of these home run types and if 50% workout they are set with elite players. Compare that to low ceiling high floor “ botts” death for where you if you get lucky get some above average players at best. You need to project well but also take risk to win the game

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You can’t effectively use nhle for an underused player in the SHL as a reflective stat. There is no point as it is not translatable to anything reliable. This was not a pick about his draft year or d+1 stats - it’s projecting his skills 2-3 years out once he fills in. Remember when everyone was dissing on Quinn d+1 performance? How’s that looking now?

I've been very vocal about the fact that I think NHLe is a very dumb stat. So I agree. I was just pointing it out since it was the topic of discussion.

 

[flashsabre]

You can’t effectively use nhle for an underused player in the SHL as a reflective stat. There is no point as it is not translatable to anything reliable. This was not a pick about his draft year or d+1 stats - it’s projecting his skills 2-3 years out once he fills in. Remember when everyone was dissing on Quinn d+1 performance? How’s that looking now?

But you are acting like 18 year old players can grow, develop and improve over time when we all know that the second they are drafted that is it. That is who they will be.
Adams said in his interview that this was a long term pick that they hope to see results when he is 22-23 years old. If he hasn’t bulked up or improved in a couple years then people can start to worry.

 

[truthbluth]

You can’t effectively use nhle for an underused player in the SHL as a reflective stat. There is no point as it is not translatable to anything reliable. This was not a pick about his draft year or d+1 stats - it’s projecting his skills 2-3 years out once he fills in. Remember when everyone was dissing on Quinn d+1 performance? How’s that looking now?

So, I’m not saying that he’s a bust. I’ll reserve judgement, because it’s been a weird couple years and he was injured and I’ll.

I also don’t love NHLe, but just so I understand the argument, you can’t compare Isak Rosen, to say, all the high pick Swedes of the past 20 or so years, because he didn’t earn enough minutes to produce? That argument is pretty thin. NHLe isn’t great at deciding between two similar prospects, but historically, 19 year olds that couldn’t score in the SHL didn’t miraculously get better at scoring in the NHL. Whether they didn’t score because they didn’t have the skill, or because their coach didn’t play them is, honestly, irrelevant.

 

[Fjordy]

So, I’m not saying that he’s a bust. I’ll reserve judgement, because it’s been a weird couple years and he was injured and I’ll.

I also don’t love NHLe, but just so I understand the argument, you can’t compare Isak Rosen, to say, all the high pick Swedes of the past 20 or so years, because he didn’t earn enough minutes to produce? That argument is pretty thin. NHLe isn’t great at deciding between two similar prospects, but historically, 19 year olds that couldn’t score in the SHL didn’t miraculously get better at scoring in the NHL. Whether they didn’t score because they didn’t have the skill, or because their coach didn’t play them is, honestly, irrelevant.

Lambert can't produce at the adult level, so he can't? The same can be with Rosen, sometimes young players need time. Raymond played little and produced in the SHL early on. Immediately began to produce well in the NHL.

 

[Chainshot]

There are reasons to be cautious with Rosen - he had a rough year. That said, he didn't lose a limb. Expect him to rebound with good health.

 

[truthbluth]

I’m

Lambert can't produce at the adult level, so he can't? The same can be with Rosen, sometimes young players need time. Raymond played little and produced in the SHL early on. Immediately began to produce well in the NHL.

It’s possible. Just unlikely. Look, I explained why Rosen’s D+1 was historically bad and why that fact isn’t nothing. But I haven’t written him off. If this next year is a dud, that’d be another story.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I’m

It’s possible. Just unlikely. Look, I explained why Rosen’s D+1 was historically bad and why that fact isn’t nothing. But I haven’t written him off. If this next year is a dud, that’d be another story.

On the plus side, I always trade him for Podkolzin in NHL 22 and it leaves me happier

 

[EichHart]

One of the worst picks in years. Almost everyone here hated it when it happened with goaltending being such a big hole in our prospect line. Sometimes posters here are actually smarter than NHL gms.

 

[Zach716]

One of the worst picks in years. Almost everyone here hated it when it happened with goaltending being such a big hole in our prospect line. Sometimes posters here are actually smarter than NHL gms.

I wonder if they viewed the pick as a complete freebie given what they traded for it.. but even then, that's not good asset management. I doubt he'll become our Kaprizov that they were probably hoping for on draft day, but I'll give him more than 1 year before writing him off.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I wonder if they viewed the pick as a complete freebie given what they traded for it.. but even then, that's not good asset management. I doubt he'll become our Kaprizov that they were probably hoping for on draft day, but I'll give him more than 1 year before writing him off.

They absolutely shouldn’t have. Hagg and the second were the freebies.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Lucius was my guy at #14. But honestly, I don’t know jack shit about these guys outside of 5 minute highlight packages. I won’t judge a single pick we make because clearly the scouting staff had some path that led them to thinking he was the best player available. I think this team needs some high skill/ceiling prospects and Rosen is definitely in that category. The sooner he gets to Granato the better too. I have full faith in our organization now at developing raw prospects.

 

[Zach716]

Lucius was my guy at #14. But honestly, I don’t know jack shit about these guys outside of 5 minute highlight packages. I won’t judge a single pick we make because clearly the scouting staff had some path that led them to thinking he was the best player available. I think this team needs some high skill/ceiling prospects and Rosen is definitely in that category. The sooner he gets to Granato the better too. I have full faith in our organization now at developing raw prospects.

This is a kid that is gonna need another 3-4 years in other leagues. I highly doubt Granato is still our coach at that point even tho he's been a miracle worker so far. Every coach has their shelf life and that would be ~year 6 for him. By then, we should regularly be making the playoffs and we probably pivot from a developmental coach.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

I'm officially on Team Isak Rosen.

A #14 pick who turned 19 less than 2 months ago getting shit on this much by the Keyboard Scouting Brigade needs another Sabre fan in his corner.

 

[Willgamesh]

I'm officially on Team Isak Rosen.

A #14 pick who turned 19 less than 2 months ago getting shit on this much by the Keyboard Scouting Brigade needs another Sabre fan in his corner.

It wasn't long ago everyone was shitting on Dahlin.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Didn't like this pick from the get go. Do some of these small, quick, skill players make it? Sure. Not that many, and few are dominant. Felt like a wasted pick at the time.....still does.

agree, he was 2nd choice when they could not get up to get Eklund.