F Dalibor Dvorsky - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2023, 10th, STL)

[Hinterland]

I cannot possibly express how much I disagree with this. Players are not selected for how good they are in the draft+1 year, but for how good they could be in the future.

Still, there has to be improvement this season towards being able to play in a pro league. A top10 pick should have somewhat of a pro game in his D+2 season. Personally, I have my doubts if Dvorsky is gonna get there while playing juniors. I don't see how it makes him more pro ready. He won't have to change his game to dominate fellow kids. We know that already. I think it would have been important for Dvorsky to play pro hockey this season. The player knows it and still decided to go back to juniors. That's what I don't understand. Let's hope that I'm wrong because I don't like the move at all.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Still, there has to be improvement this season towards being able to play in a pro league. A top10 pick should have somewhat of a pro game in his D+2 season. Personally, I have my doubts if Dvorsky is gonna get there while playing juniors. I don't see how it makes him more pro ready. He won't have to change his game to dominate fellow kids. We know that already.

Sure, in Dvorsky’s case I think going from playing professionally to playing against kids isn’t exactly a great sign for his development.

What I mean more is that the AHL is not a developmental league. You don’t put a player there who has a ways to go in their development, you put guys there who are borderline ready to play in the NHL and don’t have much development needed, just experience against adults.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I cannot possibly express how much I disagree with this. Players are not selected for how good they are in the draft+1 year, but for how good they could be in the future.

You didn’t actually address the point you quoted. You instead made a separate point.

 

[Juxtaposer]

You didn’t actually address the point you quoted. You instead made a separate point.

What was the point of the post, then? If you’re a top-10 pick you should be able to play in the AHL but only if your name is Dalibor Dvorsky? That was a pretty unambiguous sentence.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What was the point of the post, then? If you’re a top-10 pick you should be able to play in the AHL but only if your name is Dalibor Dvorsky? That was a pretty unambiguous sentence.

I said a player drafted top 10 should be able to play AHL right away.

Whether your post is right or not, you gave an opinion on a different topic (the reason to draft a player top 10).

Do you think Dvorsky can’t play AHL this season?

 

[NorthernBridge7]

Sudbury fans are impressed so far - he will be a top player in the OHL this season.

2 PTS through 2 GP but I'm expecting that to rise quickly (following possible 2 game suspension). He is generating a lot of scoring chances for himself & teammates. He could easily have been 5 PTS through 2 GP.

He said in his post-game interview Friday that he was tired and jet lagged. Likely still adjusting to the time change.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I said a player drafted top 10 should be able to play AHL right away.

Whether your post is right or not, you gave an opinion on a different topic (the reason to draft a player top 10).

Do you think Dvorsky can’t play AHL this season?

You’re completely misinterpreting my post. My point is that many players who are picked top-10 are not ready to play against men in their draft+1 season. You said that they should be.

I know this is the Dvorsky thread, but I was taking the very clear, unambiguous, and broadly-applied sentence that you posted and disagreeing with it. Don’t get confused.

 

[howlman]

Kid is a stud! That shot and release of his.. wowsers. His first goal with Sudbury was a ridiculous snipe with not much to shoot at. He could have easily had 3 goals that first game, the goalie robbed him twice. He's already made a huge impact on the PP for the Wolves, draws lots of attention. Excited to see him play live again this Friday

 

[ItWasJustified]

What I mean more is that the AHL is not a developmental league.

How is the AHL not a developmental league when teams can only have 6 players who've played 260 or more career professional games in their lineups?

 

[Indrid Cold]

How is the AHL not a developmental league when teams can only have 6 players who've played 260 or more career professional games in their lineups?

Damn, is that true? If so, then yes, its a developmental league. I did not know this.

 

[TLEH]

You didn’t actually address the point you quoted. You instead made a separate point.

Why is it your mantra to respond to everyone who disagrees with you that somehow they aren't addressing the "point" or are "talking about something else". I notice you do it a lot in the prospect board.

He clearly is directly disagreeing with your stance that if you are drafted top 10 then you should be able to play in the AHL immediately. His reason for disagreeing with your stance is that "Players are not selected for how good they are in the draft+1 year, but for how good they could be in the future." Which is not only CORRECT, it is also a direct response to your statement.

Dvorsky can join the whole host of players that developed in their D+1 in the OHL. Such as Mitch Marner, Alex DeBrincat, I mean you follow prospects I don't need to sit here and list everyone who played in the OHL D+1 and became great NHL players.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Dvorsky can join the whole host of players that developed in their D+1 in the OHL. Such as Mitch Marner, Alex DeBrincat, I mean you follow prospects I don't need to sit here and list everyone who played in the OHL D+1 and became great NHL players.

The context is pretty different though.

 

[TLEH]

The context is pretty different though.

I mean I get the point that he struggled in the SHL. Which is a worse league in the AHL. But if he goes to the OHL and has a great year. I don't even think twice about a rough 10 game stint in the SHL. If he doesn't have a great OHL year then we can discuss at that point.

 

[Hinterland]

I mean I get the point that he struggled in the SHL. Which is a worse league in the AHL. But if he goes to the OHL and has a great year. I don't even think twice about a rough 10 game stint in the SHL. If he doesn't have a great OHL year then we can discuss at that point.

Besides, you're also missing the point. Dvorsky is gonna destroy the OHL anyway. He always dominated fellow kids. The question is if it's gonna help him to be pro ready by next season. So far it hasn't. He's trying to play a junior game vs men. That's why I dislike him playing OHL. Destroying the league isn't gonna help him one bit. Except a confidence boost maybe.

Dominating kids may be fun but he can't play juniors forever. At some point he has to make the step to become full time pro and make a difference in a pro league. Dvorsky is a top10 pick so the steps towards that have to come this season. I highly doubt the OHL is the right place to do so but we'll find out.

 

[TLEH]

Besides, you're also missing the point. Dvorsky is gonna destroy the OHL anyway. He always dominated fellow kids. The question is if it's gonna help him to be pro ready by next season. So far it hasn't. He's trying to play a junior game vs men. That's why I dislike him playing OHL. Destroying the league isn't gonna help him one bit. Except a confidence boost maybe.

Dominating kids may be fun but he can't play juniors forever. At some point he has to make the step to become full time pro and make a difference in a pro league. Dvorsky is a top10 pick so the steps towards that have to come this season. I highly doubt the OHL is the right place to do so but we'll find out.

Why have other players "dominated kids" in the OHL in their D+1 and then were good NHL players in their D+2? or D+3?

 

[Hinterland]

Why have other players "dominated kids" in the OHL in their D+1 and then were good NHL players in their D+2? or D+3?

It has nothing to do with the OHL but more with the fact that dominating kids to date didn't bring Dvorsky even one step closer to pro hockey. If anything, he developed bad habits only over the last years. He's trying to play a junior game vs men. It's never gonna work. An adjustment needs to be made.

 

[Peasy]

Sounds like a Dvorsky problem. Because playing against men last year and this year clearly didn't help him much.

 

[Satan]

There isn't a right answer to where he should develop (you can find a ton of examples to support both sides) I think at 18, he needs to be seeing the ice and playing a ton of games. He'll get that with Sudbury and be close to STL resources which he can lean on. I think there's a ton of value in that, then staying in Europe, playing less games and seeing a lot less ice time.

 

[TLEH]

It has nothing to do with the OHL but more with the fact that dominating kids to date didn't bring Dvorsky even one step closer to pro hockey. If anything, he developed bad habits only over the last years. He's trying to play a junior game vs men. It's never gonna work. An adjustment needs to be made.

Again I am not understanding this dominating kids thing. He is 18 years old and didn't have a good stint against SHL competition.

Players that played D+1.. hell even D+2 in the CHL and still became good players.. LAUNDRY LIST.

Sergachev, PLD, Marner, DeBrincat, I mean Draisaitl went back to the WHL in his D+1. Did that hurt him?

These are just off the top of my head.. its not like I have any bias in this conversation I didn't rank Dvorsky like #4 and I am defending him. Hell I am a Blackhawks fan. Its just too early to say anything definitive and using the league he is playing in against him when plenty of highly talented guys have dominated that league against "kids" and went on to play directly in the NHL.. its a good list.

If he doesn't light up the OHL, then sure lets talk about it.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

He may be 6'1" 200lbs but he's still 18yo. playing in a league of mostly 17-20yo is fine I'd be worried if he couldn't move on to pro after his D+2

As far as situation comparables go I think Bo Horvat is a good one. Both were NHL sized in their draft years (Bo listed around 6'0"+ 200+ lbs in old draft combine articles), both big Cs known for their goalscoring, and both playing OHL in their D+1 season. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[ItWasJustified]

I mean I get the point that he struggled in the SHL. Which is a worse league in the AHL. But if he goes to the OHL and has a great year. I don't even think twice about a rough 10 game stint in the SHL. If he doesn't have a great OHL year then we can discuss at that point.

It's not.

 

[Hinterland]

He may be 6'1" 200lbs but he's still 18yo. playing in a league of mostly 17-20yo is fine I'd be worried if he couldn't move on to pro after his D+2

As far as situation comparables go I think Bo Horvat is a good one. Both were NHL sized in their draft years (Bo listed around 6'0"+ 200+ lbs in old draft combine articles), both big Cs known for their goalscoring, and both playing OHL in their D+1 season. Nothing wrong with it.

The problem with this comparison is that Dvorsky is nothing like Horvat. He's almost the exact opposite.

Horvat skates very well for his size. Took extra skating lessons very early on as a kid already with a former figure skater I believe. Dvorsky on the other side still can't skate at all. At least for a top10 pick his skating is very underwhelming.

Unlike Dvorsky, Horvat was never depending on his frame. I'd go as far as to say he should in fact make way more use of it.

Horvat is a highly respected two way Center who has always been excellent against the puck. Dvorsky is still rather lost against the puck. His positioning is in need of a lot of work. Kids are unable to expose him but against men he was mostly useless at best when his team didn't have the puck. Which was part of the problem because that's what he was facing. The teams he was on weren't exactly top teams and he wasn't playing with their top guys either. Of course the puck was mostly in possession of the opposition.

The problem is that Dvorsky can dominate the OHL by doing the exact same thing he did the last few years. He won't see the need to change anything and work on his weaknesses, change his game while completely dominating. The problem is that he has to do exactly that. Right now. Because he can't play juniors forever. As you say, he should be a difference maker in pro hockey next season. He's a top10 pick after all. The foundation for that has to be laid this season. While I respect the CHL for what it is and would agree that their leagues are the top junior leagues and the place to go for most kids including top prospects. Having said that, every player's situation is unique and I still don't think that for Dvorsky it was the right call to go there. If he wanted to do that, he should have went there earlier.

 

[TLEH]

It's not.

It is.

 

[TK 421]

Sounds like a Dvorsky problem. Because playing against men last year and this year clearly didn't help him much.

It's not solely a Dvorsky problem, Oskarshamn being a mess isn't his problem. Them facing relegation isn't his problem either although obviously it affected their willingness to play him. Not trying to deflect from Dvorsky and his play, that obviously played a role. If he was killing it out there then they would have been playing him. Instead his ice time kept getting cut over the course of those 10 games he appeared in at the SHL level leading to a healthy scratch.

Imo the real problem here is that his agent/management team decided to put him in a less than ideal SHL location when what was probably best for his development was to stay in Allsvenskan a 2nd season. He's one of the youngest guys from the '23 draft so it isn't crazy to think that may have been his best bet for a great development year in his D+1. Still at home in Sweden, could have perhaps built upon last year and improved at a level he was already somewhat familiar with. But no, someone in his team of advisors was clearly focused on moving him up to the SHL level despite him having pedestrian numbers in Allsvenskan. This sounds to me like bad advice from those around him or perhaps even Dvorsky himself wanting SHL in which case his agent/management still failed him. But in no way is this purely a Dvorsky problem. Reports I've read are that Oskarshamn has a peewee game plan approach to generating offense and that their opponents haven't had much of a problem countering it. That's a lack of leadership on Oskarshamn's part, not some just turned 18 year old kid.

 

[Hinterland]

It's not solely a Dvorsky problem, Oskarshamn being a mess isn't his problem. Them facing relegation isn't his problem either although obviously it affected their willingness to play him. Not trying to deflect from Dvorsky and his play, that obviously played a role. If he was killing it out there then they would have been playing him. Instead his ice time kept getting cut over the course of those 10 games he appeared in at the SHL level leading to a healthy scratch.

Imo the real problem here is that his agent/management team decided to put him in a less than ideal SHL location when what was probably best for his development was to stay in Allsvenskan a 2nd season. He's one of the youngest guys from the '23 draft so it isn't crazy to think that may have been his best bet for a great development year in his D+1. Still at home in Sweden, could have perhaps built upon last year and improved at a level he was already somewhat familiar with. But no, someone in his team of advisors was clearly focused on moving him up to the SHL level despite him having pedestrian numbers in Allsvenskan. This sounds to me like bad advice from those around him or perhaps even Dvorsky himself wanting SHL in which case his agent/management still failed him. But in no way is this purely a Dvorsky problem. Reports I've read are that Oskarshamn has a peewee game plan approach to generating offense and that their opponents haven't had much of a problem countering it. That's a lack of leadership on Oskarshamn's part, not some just turned 18 year old kid.

I agree with most of this and if it was Oskarshamn that ultimately had enough of Dvorksy then you're completely right. Otherwise I'd have liked to see Dvorksy stay around and trying to work his way back into the lineup. That kind of adversity is also an opportunity to grow, improve and learn. Dvorsky's game against the puck is in need of work and playing on a bad team in a bottom six role he'd have gotten a lot of opportunities to work on one of his weaknesses. So if Oskarshamn kicked him out then I agree that it was on the player's management. If not then I have to question the player himself. He knew that he shouldn't go back to juniors (that's also why pubicly said he's done with junior hockey) and still did it. A bit of resilience can't hurt.