F Alexis Lafreniere - Rimouski Oceanic, QMJHL (2020 Draft) Part 2

[Filthy Dangles]

One thing that's a good argument is that it's impossible to get a #1 center via free agency. Meanwhile on the wing you can get a Skinner, Panarin or Zucarrello (last year), or a Taylor Hall (this year). I think you have to take that into account as a GM.

Not in this case, where one player is significantly better regardless of position, imo.

Eichel dominated the NCAA and Matthews dominated the Swiss league against men. Lafreniere is playing against kids in the Q. I don't understand how you could even say he's on their level when he hasn't played against anyone other than kids his age yet.

That's true, but he's also doing ridiuclous insane things against said kids that only someone like Crosby has done, as a recent comparable.

 

[Wintersun]

Eichel dominated the NCAA and Matthews dominated the Swiss league against men. Lafreniere is playing against kids in the Q. I don't understand how you could even say he's on their level when he hasn't played against anyone other than kids his age yet.

It's a tougher position to compare but I don't know if I would put him with Dahlin yet.

I guess Crosby and McDavid weren't as good as Matthews as prospects, playing against little kids.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

I guess Crosby and McDavid weren't as good as Matthews as prospects, playing against little kids.

I don't know what to tell you if you can't see the very obvious point being made. There was absolutely no debate of Crosby or McDavid being dethroned from #1 in their draft year and both were heralded as prodigies far prior to their draft year. You're making an insane leap.

All I'm saying is we need to see him play against players other than 17 year olds to put him in the same class as Matthews, Eichel, and Dahlin.

 

[Wintersun]

I don't know what to tell you if you can't see the very obvious point being made. There was absolutely no debate of Crosby or McDavid being dethroned from #1 in their draft year and both were heralded as prodigies far prior to their draft year. You're making an insane leap.

All I'm saying is we need to see him play against players other than 17 year olds to put him in the same class as Matthews, Eichel, and Dahlin.

I don't know, he's played against the Jack Hughes age group every step of the way and was dominant every time as well, just like Matthews and Eichel were dominant in the same way internationally. I don't see any reason not to put Lafreniere in the same group as Eichel and Matthews. It's about projecting their skillsets at the next level, not about against who they're playing right now. Just look at Cale Makar and Elias Pettersson who played in the AJHL and Allsvenskan, they're better than players who played in the NCAA or the SHL at the same time, who cares where they play.

As a scout you take into account where they play but at the end of the day it's whether their skillset is elite or not. Even if Eichel dominated in the NCAA, many dominant players at that level don't translate in the NHL. It's still about evaluating the skillset of the player, not where he plays.

Lafreniere has been considered the first overall for two years already for this draft, always been a prodigy.

 

[Slimmy]

Has anyone made a detailed projection for Lafrenier with comparables?

 

[Dominance]

Eichel dominated the NCAA and Matthews dominated the Swiss league against men. Lafreniere is playing against kids in the Q. I don't understand how you could even say he's on their level when he hasn't played against anyone other than kids his age yet.

It's a tougher position to compare but I don't know if I would put him with Dahlin yet.

Atrocious logic. So you would have taken Matthews and Eichel over McDavid, right?

 

[BruinsBtn]

Not in this case, where one player is significantly better regardless of position, imo.



That's true, but he's also doing ridiuclous insane things against said kids that only someone like Crosby has done, as a recent comparable.

You're underselling Byfield here. He's 6-foot-4, 215 lbs and looks like he could add another 30 lbs. He will be one of the youngest players in the draft (he's 10 months younger than Lafreniere). He's just shy of 2 ppg in his draft year and has more goals than Lafreniere. There's every reason to believe he's a prototypical #1 NHL center.

"I can't imagine a scenario where if a team picking No. 1, that needs a centre, would not pick Byfield," -- Craig Button.

If it's Ottawa, Detroit, Anaheim, NYR or Columbus I think they take the C without too much hesitation. Maybe LA too

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Atrocious logic. So you would have taken Matthews and Eichel over McDavid, right?

When did I say every single player who played in the NCAA>CHL'er? All I'm saying is Eichel and Matthews dominated men in their draft year. Lafreniere hasn't had the opportunity to do that yet. So I don't see how anyone could put them on the same level without some insane forward projection.

As the poster below you pointed out, there is a case for Byfield to be made when you consider position, age, and relative dominance in a better league (OHL vs Q). There was absolutely no debate for McDavid, Matthews, Eichel or Dahlin. That's why you can't put him at that level. *yet*

 

[JPeeper]

Laf shits all over Matthews, Eichel and Dahlin. SHITS OVER.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I don't know what to tell you if you can't see the very obvious point being made. There was absolutely no debate of Crosby or McDavid being dethroned from #1 in their draft year and both were heralded as prodigies far prior to their draft year. You're making an insane leap.

All I'm saying is we need to see him play against players other than 17 year olds to put him in the same class as Matthews, Eichel, and Dahlin.

The CHL has been developing the top players in the world for decades all while playing against kids. Also I mean he isn't really playing against kids he is playing against his age group. It is kind of ridiculous to say a prospect in the CHL can't be on the level of a prospect that plays pros or NCAA.

 

[Nabrules]

Fantastic game by Lafreniere! People who’re comparing Lafreniere and Byfield this world juniors are complete Idiots though. This is his 2nd wjs as a player who would’ve been in the nhl if he was a few weeks younger. Just thought I should point this out since I see a lot of people saying AL>QB because of today’s game. Byfields performance this year will be more along the
Lines of last years performance by AL.

 

[Wintersun]

You're underselling Byfield here. He's 6-foot-4, 215 lbs and looks like he could add another 30 lbs. He will be one of the youngest players in the draft (he's 10 months younger than Lafreniere). He's just shy of 2 ppg in his draft year and has more goals than Lafreniere. There's every reason to believe he's a prototypical #1 NHL center.

"I can't imagine a scenario where if a team picking No. 1, that needs a centre, would not pick Byfield," -- Craig Button.

If it's Ottawa, Detroit, Anaheim, NYR or Columbus I think they take the C without too much hesitation. Maybe LA too

At the end of the day, Byfield is bigger and younger, but his hockey sense and speed of processing the game will never reach what Lafreniere can do. Byfield will likely be a first line center in the NHL, but Lafreniere is just better at hockey. I'm of the mind that like Pettersson, Lafreniere is a guy that has a center skillset and could be taught to play the position at the NHL level, but that's an other debate.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Eichel dominated the NCAA and Matthews dominated the Swiss league against men. Lafreniere is playing against kids in the Q. I don't understand how you could even say he's on their level when he hasn't played against anyone other than kids his age yet.

It's a tougher position to compare but I don't know if I would put him with Dahlin yet.

He was 10th in scoring and 2nd on his team. Maybe we have different definitions of 'dominated' Would you say Stamkos or Gaudreau dominated the NHL last year?

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

He was 10th in scoring and 2nd on his team. Maybe we have different definitions of 'dominated' Would you say Stamkos or Gaudreau dominated the NHL last year?

Yes. Especially when you consider he was 2nd in NLA MVP voting.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

The CHL has been developing the top players in the world for decades all while playing against kids. Also I mean he isn't really playing against kids he is playing against his age group. It is kind of ridiculous to say a prospect in the CHL can't be on the level of a prospect that plays pros or NCAA.

I'm not saying that NCAA players can't be better than CHL'ers. I'm saying Eichel and Matthews were *SO* dominant for their age group against men that when comparing talent at this level, you need to see Lafreniere challenged a little to put him in that same conversation. I need to see him do this against men because Eichel and Matthews were so good against men as well.

I think what people need to remember is the posts I was responding to suggested Lafreniere was BETTER than Eichel and Matthews. We can debate all day long if he should be in the same conversation, but I have no clue how you could say he's better than those two.

 

[Dominance]

I'm not saying that NCAA players can't be better than CHL'ers. I'm saying Eichel and Matthews were *SO* dominant for their age group against men that when comparing talent at this level, you need to see Lafreniere challenged a little to put him in that same conversation. I need to see him do this against men because Eichel and Matthews were so good against men as well.

I think what people need to remember is the posts I was responding to suggested Lafreniere was BETTER than Eichel and Matthews. We can debate all day long if he should be in the same conversation, but I have no clue how you could say he's better than those two.

At what point would you allow for a CHLer to be better, then, as you claim? You allow that McDavid was on another level than Matthews and Eichel despite not having this all-important regular play against men, but Lafreniere is right there with McDavid’s draft year this season, and has so far looked better than McDavid ever did at the WJC.

Anyhow, this is ridiculous as it is clear you’re just utterly locked into a misguided defence of everything Matthews when it’s irrelevant to this thread. You absolutely need Lafreniere to play against men - which he has no way of doing - to even consider putting him with (much less above) Matthews and Eichel. Great, OK.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

At what point would you allow for a CHLer to be better, then, as you claim? You allow that McDavid was on another level than Matthews and Eichel despite not having this all-important regular play against men, but Lafreniere is right there with McDavid’s draft year this season, and has so far looked better than McDavid ever did at the WJC.

Anyhow, this is ridiculous as it is clear you’re just utterly locked into a misguided defence of everything Matthews when it’s irrelevant to this thread. You absolutely need Lafreniere to play against men - which he has no way of doing - to even consider putting him with (much less above) Matthews and Eichel. Great, OK.

Firstly, I need there to be absolutely no debate than Lafreniere is #1 to start. There was so much debate heading into the tournament that Byfield could be number 1. And the case to be made is solid when you consider position, birthdate, and relative performance in a stronger league. Second, go to the championships in the spring like both Matthews and Eichel did, represent your country against men, and play just as well as they did. How is that second point not possible?

Matthews went near PPG against NHL'ers in his draft year and Eichel was great too (0.7 PPG) in the worlds. Why can't we wait until Lafreniere does the same?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Firstly, I need there to be absolutely no debate than Lafreniere is #1 to start. There was so much debate heading into the tournament that Byfield could be number 1. And the case to be made is solid when you consider position, birthdate, and relative performance in a stronger league. Second, go to the championships in the spring like both Matthews and Eichel did, represent your country against men, and play just as well as they did. How is that second point not possible?

Matthews went near PPG against NHL'ers in his draft year and Eichel was great too (0.7 PPG) in the worlds. Why can't we wait until Lafreniere does the same?

Because it won't happen before he is drafted? Your asking for competition that he literally will not face this year.

 

[Dominance]

Firstly, I need there to be absolutely no debate than Lafreniere is #1 to start. There was so much debate heading into the tournament that Byfield could be number 1. And the case to be made is solid when you consider position, birthdate, and relative performance in a stronger league. Second, go to the championships in the spring like both Matthews and Eichel did, represent your country against men, and play just as well as they did. How is that second point not possible?

Matthews went near PPG against NHL'ers in his draft year and Eichel was great too (0.7 PPG) in the worlds. Why can't we wait until Lafreniere does the same?

Because in doing so you’re setting a ridiculous standard. Basically, no CHLer should ever be taken above an NCAA player because we just haven’t seen them play against men. I know those aren’t your exact words, but that’s the general theme. And it’s ridiculous. We can evaluate Lafreniere now against anyone by comparing him to his CHL predecessors and their performance in the NHL.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Because it won't happen before he is drafted? Your asking for competition that he literally will not face this year.

The worlds take place before he's drafted. How am I asking for competition he won't face this year?

 

[Dominance]

The worlds take place before he's drafted. How am I asking for competition he won't face this year?

You realize how ridiculous this is, right? Stubbornly insisting one should only evaluate Lafreniere on the strength of a single tournament?

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

The worlds take place before he's drafted. How am I asking for competition he won't face this year?

Because if his team goes far he will still be playing with Rimouski come May and not at the Worlds.

 

[57special]

If i was MTL, I would offer Caufield, KK/Suzuki, and a 1st for Lafreniere, which isn't a bad little package.

 

[tealhockey]

If i was MTL, I would offer Caufield, KK/Suzuki, and a 1st for Lafreniere, which isn't a bad little package.

three-four lottery first round picks for 1OA is kind of steep. Laf does seem like a very valuable asset though

 

[JackFr]

If i was MTL, I would offer Caufield, KK/Suzuki, and a 1st for Lafreniere, which isn't a bad little package.

I doubt anyone would take that. Would you have wanted to trade the Crosby pick for Nathan Horton + Alex Radulov + a 1st (Martin Hanzal)?

Trading Lafreniere has a very high possibility of making your team look really stupid in the near future.