F Alexis Lafreniere - Rimouski Oceanic, QMJHL (2020 Draft) Part 2

[jrs]

I can’t wait till Little centres him

 

[pylon17]

I think the poster that evaluated the game was putting a lot of weight on grit, physicality, and strength. Olivier Desroches may be a solid scrappy D, but saying he out performed Zav is a little absurd. The Zav guy had some beautiful vision on the PP and that give and go that he finished 5 on 5 where he made SJ's best player (Guay) look like a pilon before deking the goalie was also great.

I agree stats are not everything and so so many posters only go by them when drawing an argument/conclusion. In this case, Zav was one of the best players regardless if they had not finished on any of there chances.

#89 on Rimouski? Yeah he was good too. Slick. Hard to track individual players and the play in just 1 game, but yeah I noticed him. I just thought that, offensively, Lafreniere and Pare were more impressive, and Raska was all over the place involved in everything and usually winning every battle. Honestly, Raska was impressive. I’d have to watch another game and focus more on Zav to really comment. I think Rimouski’s in Moncton in the spring.

 

[Siludin]

This hasn’t been remotely true for a while now.

You’re also saying that if Lafreniere was in the OHL last year he would only have ~85pts instead of 103? Or that his rookie campaign he would have only been a 60-70pt scorer and isn’t actually any better than Perfetti?

Eh, maybe not the OHL. In the WHL he definitely would have scored less.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Eh, maybe not the OHL. In the WHL he definitely would have scored less.

Dach scores 73 last season. If you think Lafreniere scores 20 less points in the WHL, then you must think they’re pretty equal as good prospects, right?

Or better yet, Brett Leason was a better player?

Also total goals scored in the WHL last season , 4,878/ 22 teams = 222 goals per team on average

total goals scored in the QMJHL last season,
4,236 /18 teams = 235 goals per team on average.

So despite you thinking the Q is a “VASTLY” more offensive league than the WHL, the average team only scores about 12 more goals over 68 games

Still think he’s scoring 20 less points in the WHL despite exactly 0 evidence to suggest that at all?

Don’t even get me started on how wrong you were with the Q in comparison to the OHL...

 

[Siludin]

Dach scores 73 last season. If you think Lafreniere scores 20 less points in the WHL, then you must think they’re pretty equal as good prospects, right?

Or better yet, Brett Leason was a better player?

Also total goals scored in the WHL last season , 4,878/ 22 teams = 222 goals per team on average

total goals scored in the QMJHL last season,
4,236 /18 teams = 235 goals per team on average.

So despite you thinking the Q is a “VASTLY” more offensive league than the WHL, the average team only scores about 12 more goals over 68 games

Still think he’s scoring 20 less points in the WHL despite exactly 0 evidence to suggest that at all?

Don’t even get me started on how wrong you were with the Q in comparison to the OHL...

Yeah I genuinely think he scores probably 10-15 less points in the WHL last year, probably 20-25 less this year. Still astounding numbers for the WHL.
He looks like he is on pace for some Crosby-style numbers in the Q this year and we just haven't seen that in the WHL out of a draft-eligible player in... how long? Decades?
Look at RNH's numbers as a No. 1 pick and I doubt Lafreniere eclipses that by more than 10-15 points, which would still put him in generational-talent tiers if you go by scoring history in the WHL. If he puts up points in the 120-130 range this year, those are absolute decade-topping WHL numbers from a draft-eligible player but nothing compared to the 150-160+ he is on pace for in the QMJHL.

I know you are lording over how the OHL had higher scoring last year than the QMJHL, but if you look over the past couple of decades idk if that is the case.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Yeah I genuinely think he scores probably 10-15 less points in the WHL last year, probably 20-25 less this year. Still astounding numbers for the WHL.
He looks like he is on pace for some Crosby-style numbers in the Q this year and we just haven't seen that in the WHL out of a draft-eligible player in... how long? Decades?
Look at RNH's numbers as a No. 1 pick and I doubt Lafreniere eclipses that by more than 10-15 points, which would still put him in generational-talent tiers if you go by scoring history in the WHL. If he puts up points in the 120-130 range this year, those are absolute decade-topping WHL numbers from a draft-eligible player but nothing compared to the 150-160+ he is on pace for in the QMJHL.

I know you are lording over how the OHL had higher scoring last year than the QMJHL, but if you look over the past couple of decades idk if that is the case.

How many top tier forwards has the WHL produced in the last 10 years or so? The Q had 4 players in the top 10 of NHL scoring last year. Maybe the reason the WHL hasn't had anyone put up Crosby or Lafreniere type numbers....is they have never had a Crosby or Lafreniere like talent come through the league in recent memory.

 

[Siludin]

How many top tier forwards has the WHL produced in the last 10 years or so? The Q had 4 players in the top 10 of NHL scoring last year. Maybe the reason the WHL hasn't had anyone put up Crosby or Lafreniere type numbers....is they have never had a Crosby or Lafreniere like talent come through the league in recent memory.

Right, but then how many defensemen have come out of the WHL? Much more. The WHL is a league that promotes better defense, so you get better defensemen coming out of it. Count QMJHL defensemen vs. WHL defensemen drafted in the top-10 since 2010 and I assume there are far more without checking. I think in Yakupov's year there were like 5 WHL defensemen in the top-10.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Right, but then how many defensemen have come out of the WHL? Much more. The WHL is a league that promotes better defense, so you get better defensemen coming out of it. Count QMJHL defensemen vs. WHL defensemen drafted in the top-10 since 2010 and I assume there are far more without checking. I think in Yakupov's year there were like 5 WHL defensemen in the top-10.

Yeah that isn't debatable. The WHL develops better defensemen and the Q develops better forwards. But that doesn't mean there is such a massive difference in scoring across leagues. That just makes no sense at all. There were 5 players over 100 points in the WHL and 4 in the Q. The fact that the WHL develops better defensemen doesn't mean that if you transplant Alexis into that league his point totals drop dramatically. That just does not make any sense, especially when all the facts show otherwise. People just need to accept that he is as good as his numbers show and he is clearly the best player in junior hockey. Point blank period.

 

[Hfbsux]

#89 on Rimouski? Yeah he was good too. Slick. Hard to track individual players and the play in just 1 game, but yeah I noticed him. I just thought that, offensively, Lafreniere and Pare were more impressive, and Raska was all over the place involved in everything and usually winning every battle. Honestly, Raska was impressive. I’d have to watch another game and focus more on Zav to really comment. I think Rimouski’s in Moncton in the spring.

I'll try to catch that one too. Should be a good matchup!

 

[Dodospice]

Didn't Zavgorodny have 3 primary assists, +1 secondary and a goal?, Belliveau (D) had a goal an assist, when Poirier didn't score a single point. Raska > Zavgorodny and Poirier, Martineau > Belliveau in this game?

It’s not all about points. You actually have to watch the game to draw conclusions on who had a good night/who didn’t. I’ve been to many games where the best players on the ice were held pointless and many where guys who were mostly invisible finished with 3+ points.

 

[Siludin]

Yeah that isn't debatable. The WHL develops better defensemen and the Q develops better forwards. But that doesn't mean there is such a massive difference in scoring across leagues. That just makes no sense at all. There were 5 players over 100 points in the WHL and 4 in the Q. The fact that the WHL develops better defensemen doesn't mean that if you transplant Alexis into that league his point totals drop dramatically. That just does not make any sense, especially when all the facts show otherwise. People just need to accept that he is as good as his numbers show and he is clearly the best player in junior hockey. Point blank period.

I don't think you are considering what it is like to play on a defense-first team vs. offense-first team for a star player. There are many scoring opportunities Lafreniere probably created in the QMJHL that he may not have been given the leash to create in the WHL, and that may not be just due to say, coach trust but maybe a systemic thing that the coaches would expect Lafreniere to respect lest the team suffers on defense. These are the things that lead to less points, not his skill. By dampening these opportunities, star forwards in the WHL likely never see the opportunity to try scoring maneuvers that other leagues encourage, which may itself dampen career-level output (you aren't being gifted these opportunities beyond juniors, that's for sure).
Like, Lafreniere probably knows more than a few of the goals he scores won't be goals in the NHL, but does he let up in Junior? I don't know if there is equivalent terminology in hockey, but I guess you could call them cheese goals, or cheese plays, or even high risk/high reward plays. I have no doubt that Lafreniere essentially has carte blanche to do whatever he wants on his team and I don't think that's quite as common in the WHL for its star forwards. You could argue this is what weakens the forward pool coming out of the WHL over the long-term, be it on account of player confidence or just a player's instinct taking a different road. You look at the top producers in the WHL (let's say 100+ points) and they are almost always overage/already-drafted players.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I don't think you are considering what it is like to play on a defense-first team vs. offense-first team for a star player. There are many scoring opportunities Lafreniere probably created in the QMJHL that he may not have been given the leash to create in the WHL, and that may not be just due to say, coach trust but maybe a systemic thing that the coaches would expect Lafreniere to respect lest the team suffers on defense. These are the things that lead to less points, not his skill. By dampening these opportunities, star forwards in the WHL likely never see the opportunity to try scoring maneuvers that other leagues encourage, which may itself dampen career-level output (you aren't being gifted these opportunities beyond juniors, that's for sure).
Like, Lafreniere probably knows more than a few of the goals he scores won't be goals in the NHL, but does he let up in Junior? I don't know if there is equivalent terminology in hockey, but I guess you could call them cheese goals, or cheese plays, or even high risk/high reward plays. I have no doubt that Lafreniere essentially has carte blanche to do whatever he wants on his team and I don't think that's quite as common in the WHL for its star forwards. You could argue this is what weakens the forward pool coming out of the WHL over the long-term, be it on account of player confidence or just a player's instinct taking a different road. You look at the top producers in the WHL (let's say 100+ points) and they are almost always overage/already-drafted players.

All of that might be true...yet the WHL still has not had a forward prospect of Lafreniere's caliber in what 20 years? He plays an extremely NHL style of game(He could play and be a productive player this year if he was eligible imo). Lafreniere has carte blanche to do whatever he wants....because he literally can do whatever he wants on the ice. And yes he is a dominate defensive player, both positionally and physically. I am sorry but if you don't think he would be making as much of a joke of the WHL as he is the Q you are entirely out to lunch on this one.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah I genuinely think he scores probably 10-15 less points in the WHL last year, probably 20-25 less this year. Still astounding numbers for the WHL.
He looks like he is on pace for some Crosby-style numbers in the Q this year and we just haven't seen that in the WHL out of a draft-eligible player in... how long? Decades?
Look at RNH's numbers as a No. 1 pick and I doubt Lafreniere eclipses that by more than 10-15 points, which would still put him in generational-talent tiers if you go by scoring history in the WHL. If he puts up points in the 120-130 range this year, those are absolute decade-topping WHL numbers from a draft-eligible player but nothing compared to the 150-160+ he is on pace for in the QMJHL.

I know you are lording over how the OHL had higher scoring last year than the QMJHL, but if you look over the past couple of decades idk if that is the case.

How exactly does it make any sense that Q teams on average only score about 12 more goals the entire season than the WHL teams, yet his point totals will drop by 25?

As has already been pointed out, the Q develops forwards better, hence why 4 were in the top 10 in scoring.

Again, this idea that the Q is just some run and gun league is incredibly outdated and the difference in scoring between the WHL and OHL and Q hasn’t been much the last few years, sometimes with the OHL being ahead.

He’s just an amazing prospect on an entirely different tier than RNH. Taking 15pts away from his totals last year puts him in the Dach/Leason/Patrick point total area... and I REALLY hope you’re not suggesting he’s no better offensively than them..

 

[Sens72]

Got a 5 minute major and game misconduct for a hit to the head.

 

[Jabs102501]

Got a 5 minute major and game misconduct for a hit to the head.

Suspended for 30 games most likely

 

[edguy]

Got a 5 minute major and game misconduct for a hit to the head.

He definitely earned it. Wouldn't be shocked if he got a game or 2.

That said, after seeing him last night for half a game, this guy is special.

 

[MXD]

Yeah I genuinely think he scores probably 10-15 less points in the WHL last year, probably 20-25 less this year. Still astounding numbers for the WHL.
He looks like he is on pace for some Crosby-style numbers in the Q this year and we just haven't seen that in the WHL out of a draft-eligible player in... how long? Decades?
Look at RNH's numbers as a No. 1 pick and I doubt Lafreniere eclipses that by more than 10-15 points, which would still put him in generational-talent tiers if you go by scoring history in the WHL. If he puts up points in the 120-130 range this year, those are absolute decade-topping WHL numbers from a draft-eligible player but nothing compared to the 150-160+ he is on pace for in the QMJHL.

That's because the WHL didn't have a Crosby-level player in decades...
(or at any f***ing point, actually).

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

I could be wrong but, isn’t scoring in the q, and all leagues in general, down quite a bit since Crosby was a draft eligible? I’m not saying Lafrienere is on Crosby’s level, but I absolutely think he’s closer than people think. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s on a dahlin level in terms of prospect potential. If anyone is going to rekindle the crosby/Ovechkin hype with mcdavid, it will be Lafrienere.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I could be wrong but, isn’t scoring in the q, and all leagues in general, down quite a bit since Crosby was a draft eligible? I’m not saying Lafrienere is on Crosby’s level, but I absolutely think he’s closer than people think. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s on a dahlin level in terms of prospect potential. If anyone is going to rekindle the crosby/Ovechkin hype with mcdavid, it will be Lafrienere.

Yes scoring is down, however Lafreniere is currently a year older than Crosby was during his draft year.

At the same ages as Crosby, Lafreniere has a very good 80 and 103pts. However, Crosby had 135 and 168...

Lafreniere is a very, very good prospect but I think he’s much closer to Mackinnon or Stamkos than he is to Crosby.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Yes scoring is down, however Lafreniere is currently a year older than Crosby was during his draft year.

At the same ages as Crosby, Lafreniere has a very good 80 and 103pts. However, Crosby had 135 and 168...

Lafreniere is a very, very good prospect but I think he’s much closer to Mackinnon or Stamkos than he is to Crosby.

I agree

 

[edguy]

I could be wrong but, isn’t scoring in the q, and all leagues in general, down quite a bit since Crosby was a draft eligible? I’m not saying Lafrienere is on Crosby’s level, but I absolutely think he’s closer than people think. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s on a dahlin level in terms of prospect potential. If anyone is going to rekindle the crosby/Ovechkin hype with mcdavid, it will be Lafrienere.

I mean, has anyone hit 160 some odd points since? no. but the leaders still has typically between 110-130 points in the Q, which is where the next closest guy finished to Croby. I wouldn't say scoring is down, its just that Crosby was that special.

Crosby scored at a 2.71 PPG pace in the Q. Lafreniere is scoring at a 1.72 PPG this year, and 1.18 last year.

Lafreniere is so good, but Crosby was just on a whole other level.

 

[Dominance]

I mean, has anyone hit 160 some odd points since? no. but the leaders still has typically between 110-130 points in the Q, which is where the next closest guy finished to Croby. I wouldn't say scoring is down, its just that Crosby was that special.

Crosby scored at a 2.71 PPG pace in the Q. Lafreniere is scoring at a 1.72 PPG this year, and 1.18 last year.

Lafreniere is so good, but Crosby was just on a whole other level.

Those numbers are way off. No clue where you’re taking them from.

1.33 PPG rookie season, 1.72 PPG last season, and 2.39 PPG this season.

 

[edguy]

Those numbers are way off. No clue where you’re taking them from.

The QMJHL's website sooooo

 

[Dominance]

The QMJHL's website sooooo

Reference my edit. You must be looking at it wrong.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

The QMJHL's website sooooo

43 points in 18 games is a 2.38 ppg this year.