You're right, he did explode post WJC. I just think it's dangerous to extrapolate from early season paces.
F Alexis Lafreniere - Rimouski Oceanic, QMJHL (2020 Draft) Part 2
- Thread starter garnetpalmetto
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You're right, he did explode post WJC. I just think it's dangerous to extrapolate from early season paces.
Artorius Horus T
sincerety
Well... 8 games this month, 8 goals, 17 assists, 25 points, that gives him 3.13 ppg, so there's that.
Devils Army
Rebuild Over.
Just stopping in to reply to the guy who said Hall wasn't an elite skater... Uhhhh what? That's all, dont want to derail the thread, but I'd probably considering Hall a top 10-15 skater in the league
Gabrielor
Registered User
If Laf was in 2018, I think I take him over Hughes and Kakko, but best forward since McDavid? No.
Byfield better than Eichel/Matthews as a prospect?? Super no.
Eichel took a so-so BU team to the championship, scoring 71 points in 40 games as a freshman. Matthews was over ppg in a Swiss men's league, and was top 5 in goals. I'd have Byfield sqaurely in a tier below, where I've had guys like Svechnikov, Hischier, Makar, Monahan, etc.
Lafreniere is right there with franchise status players such as eichel/dahlin/matthews.A tier below mcdavid in term of prospect
Highlights from his 5 point effort yesterday:
Une autre domination de Rimouski! Remparts 2 Océanic 9 – LHJMQ
Une autre domination de Rimouski! Remparts 2 Océanic 9 – LHJMQ
And Lafreniere is scoring at a rate greater than McDavid did in his draft season, on a substantially worse team, in a year when the only other player over 2.0 PPG in the QMJHL is his overage linemate he has raised from obscurity. He is also far more of a well-rounded player at this age than any of McDavid, Matthews, or Eichel. He falls behind McDavid only due to being a winger and not having any trait so ridiculously elite that it is absolutely game-breaking at any level, like Connor’s skating is and was.
Similarly, Byfield is over 2.0 PPG on a team with very little in the way of offensive support and that uses a predominantly defensive and structured system. His all around game is far beyond any of the players listed, and his size/speed combination is unheard of. None of Hischier, Svechnikov, or Monahan were close to him as a prospect, statistically or on the eye test. He’s certainly closer to Matthews and Eichel than that group. I wouldn’t say he has the upper hand necessarily, but neither would I say it is remotely clear cut that either of those two would be selected over a better skating, far bigger, stronger two-way centre scoring over 2.0 PPG in the OHL.
Andrei79
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Crosby was almost a full year younger however. Still insane numbers, but maybe Lafreniere can do it.
BradMarchandismydad
Registered User
How has Pare looked in general? I understand that there's certainly a degree of being backpacked by Laf, but those point totals look pretty damn good.
Gabrielor
Registered User
You’re comparing current-incompletes to full pictures. Kirby Dach was over 2 ppg this time last year too...
Oh, of course. I see I didn’t do enough in my original post to clarify that all of my comments are entirely contingent on the players maintaining this pace over the full season, which is just hypothesis at this point.
Cheers.
Regardless of how the year plays out and who wants to argue where these guys rank, the fact that young superstars are coming into the league each year is great for the game.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Lafrenière might have a lower offensive ceiling than these two, but he has a lower floor as well. For his age, Lafrenière is a very well-rounded player. He reminds me of Marian Hossa a lot.
At worst, he is going to be a 45-50 point 2nd line winger who PKs and can play tough minutes.
At best, he'll be peak Marian Hossa.
I'd say he is in the same range as Eichel and Matthews as a prospect. I'd take him over Eichel (not Matthews).
AlternateSideParking
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Impacts the game beyond scoring. This shift wasn't an outlier either. He plays this way all the time.
JLFGoNicsGo11
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ETTHAKING67
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I really like Laf but I wonder if the Sens pick first if they draft him.
Byfield might be the Center they need if they want to have succes for the next decate or so but at the same time Laf is special (No that far from Byfield tho) and he's french-canadian which would be REALLY good for marketing (Ottawa is 5 minutes away from Gatineau in the Povince of Quebec if you didn't know) the way things are going for them I feel like they need that marketing boost if they want to stay alive.
Byfield might be the Center they need if they want to have succes for the next decate or so but at the same time Laf is special (No that far from Byfield tho) and he's french-canadian which would be REALLY good for marketing (Ottawa is 5 minutes away from Gatineau in the Povince of Quebec if you didn't know) the way things are going for them I feel like they need that marketing boost if they want to stay alive.
jj cale
Registered User
I think a team has a tough decision to make coming up, be it the sens or not.
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
If Melnyk is still around he'll 100% call that shot. Needs support from the Ottawa Franco community too.
But it'll be amazing if we end up with either one of them. We're not even likely to be in that position because of this dumb lottery system.
Yeah, both Matthews and Eichel had 2 extremely elite seasons to fall back on, and each had very high-end season as 16 year old given that 16 year olds aren't commonly bumped to the U-18's and used as key centers. While both older, having 2 seasons of that level of performance provides more certainty (which is why Laf having 3 strong seasons really helps the argument for going 1). Whereas Byfield had a good but I wouldn't call an elite season for a 16 year-old in the OHL (the gold standard being McDavid, Stamkos and Tavares). I have a hard time seeing Byfield being taken over those Matthews and Eichel. I mean, Matthews was the best player on the USA World Championship team as an 18 year-old. Byfield could move into their range, but its going to take a massive full-season performance. I mean, Matthews broke the single-season USNTDP goal-scoring record as a 6'3 210 pound center, and had the best goal scoring rate in the Swiss league of players who played over 30 games and the 2nd highest ppg of guys who played over 30, a league that isn't deep but tends to have high-end top talent due to what they pay imports (whereas they get killed on depth vs the more known SHL and SM-Liiga). Eichel was the first freshman to win the Hobey Baker since Kariya, and had a dominating NCAA season.
As for the marketing angle? That really shouldn't matter in a Canadian market, especially when you are discussing 2 Canadian prospects. If you win, and aren't run like a gong-show, people will show up. The player who contributes the most towards your team winning will likely provide the biggest financial reward, and to think and draft otherwise is insanely short-sighted.
Gabrielor
Registered User
Agreed. I have Laf in that franchise player tier. Byfield is in that elite prospect tier, 1 below, for now.
Gabrielor
Registered User
I'm confused, since you took a quote about Byfield, and made it about Laf. Since this is the Laf thread though, I'll roll with it.
Laf is in my franchise player tier. Today, I'd take Eichel and Matthews over him, but I also don't have his full season to analyze yet.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
My issue with this discussion is that this stuff is said every year. At some point, you have to draw the line. Eventually you are going to get a year that's a little weaker at the top, and you are likely going to have a few weak years coming if 2015 and 2016 had so many of those top guys. Because this is all relative. Lafreniere is good, Byfield is good. No one disputes that. What is disputed is how good they are compared to players from previous drafts. I said that 2019 was weak from the get go. All the Finn's and the Hughes fanboys attacked me for it. We are now seeing that none of the 2019 draftees are immediate impact players in the NHL.
I think Lafreniere is probably more of an immediate impact player than any player from 2019, and I'd put him right below Turcotte for whose the best prospect from the two drafts. To me, Turcotte is in a tier with Pettersson from 2017 pre-draft. They have a small advantage over a player like Lafreniere, and its mostly down to position. Both are under the level of the Matthews, Eichel, Laine types. I'd put Lafrienere in a tier with the recent wingers at the top like Svechnikov, Kakko and Hughes. In my opinion, he's probably first in that tier followed by Svechnikov, Kakko, then Hughes.
But comparing him to Matthews, Eichel, Dahlin, Laine is not favorable towards him, in my opinion. I think he has a full tier above him with players like Pettersson and Turcotte before you get to the tier of Dahlin, Matthews, Eichel, Laine. Just like it wasn't favorable towards Hughes to compare him to those two American centers, and just like it wasn't favorable towards Kakko to compare him to Laine. It's okay to acknowledge once in a while that the prospects at the top of a specific draft are a weaker crop.
And here's how I had it, in a more visual context. I'm sure I'll be attacked or at least ridiculed for my opinion here, but I'll stick by what I've said, and I think I'll end up being right here.
Tier 1:
McDavid
Tier 2:
Dahlin
Laine
Eichel
Matthews
Tier 3:
Pettersson
Turcotte
Tier 4:
Lafreniere
Svechnikov
Kakko
Hughes
I think Lafreniere is probably more of an immediate impact player than any player from 2019, and I'd put him right below Turcotte for whose the best prospect from the two drafts. To me, Turcotte is in a tier with Pettersson from 2017 pre-draft. They have a small advantage over a player like Lafreniere, and its mostly down to position. Both are under the level of the Matthews, Eichel, Laine types. I'd put Lafrienere in a tier with the recent wingers at the top like Svechnikov, Kakko and Hughes. In my opinion, he's probably first in that tier followed by Svechnikov, Kakko, then Hughes.
But comparing him to Matthews, Eichel, Dahlin, Laine is not favorable towards him, in my opinion. I think he has a full tier above him with players like Pettersson and Turcotte before you get to the tier of Dahlin, Matthews, Eichel, Laine. Just like it wasn't favorable towards Hughes to compare him to those two American centers, and just like it wasn't favorable towards Kakko to compare him to Laine. It's okay to acknowledge once in a while that the prospects at the top of a specific draft are a weaker crop.
And here's how I had it, in a more visual context. I'm sure I'll be attacked or at least ridiculed for my opinion here, but I'll stick by what I've said, and I think I'll end up being right here.
Tier 1:
McDavid
Tier 2:
Dahlin
Laine
Eichel
Matthews
Tier 3:
Pettersson
Turcotte
Tier 4:
Lafreniere
Svechnikov
Kakko
Hughes
JLFGoNicsGo11
Registered User
Turcotte better than Laf that’s hilarious
tealhockey
@overtheboards
- Jun 2, 2012
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The way things play out is often hilarious. Pettersson going 5th in retrospect is hilarious. I don't agree with him (though I don't disagree fully) but he made his argument and you didn't really add anything substantive.
For PB's post, I think Svechnikov seems a bit underrated, especially if we consider how they will do in playoffs I think he has big upside in how the game is played in the spring. Hughes-Kakko dyad is hard to define as definitively any tier right now, putting Laf in tier 4 also seems premature (he also seems like a playoff-performer type) and Byfield is conspicuously absent as a 6'5 center with scary offensive upside. Center, IMO being the hardest and most important position, if Byfield can handle his responsibilities and maintain the explosive offense in the NHL, I don't see why he wouldn't be tier 2. That would anchor Lafreniere up there just from the fact that a lot of people seem to think he is going to be better. I don't really have an opinion either way this is just how I see it, we draft players very young in this sport and there is a lot to prove still in October of their draft year.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
It only took five minutes. I called it.
The internet is an intolerant place, so no surprise, and way to miss the point of my post. I started out with the point, and used some examples. You focused on the examples.
But to your credit, you likely won't be the only person.
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