F Adam Fantilli - Univ. of Michigan, NCAA (2023 Draft)

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All this fight just brings to my minds is Eichel(Fantilli) vs McDavid(Bedard) again. I currently prefer Bedard because he drives more dangerous changes constantly and has more high end skillset based on my viewings. Fantilli plays really complete two-way game though and he really does not have many weaknesses. Just how high is Fantilli's high?

Fantilli is not a bad price if you can't get Bedard though and it's more about what you prefer.
 
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I'm not even convinced I'd take Fantilli with the number 3 pick.

He can make my mind up for me this Christmas. but my expectations for him at the WJHC are not all that great.

We shall see!
 
But he’s saying all things aren’t equal
Ok I understand
I’m saying GENERALLY, outside of this Bedard Fantilli conversation, I would take size especially if it precludes someone from playing centre . I’m not even sure how this came up anymore . We’re king of going around in circles and i don’t really care to argue about it that much

I love both prospects and I’m learning more and more about Fantilli . I’m in the honeymoon phase with him right now
 
I’m starting to have this kid over Bedard. I think both will have amazing careers but I’m more confident than Fantilli will do it at centre. I think there’s a chance Bedard gets move to the wing.

I am coming out and saying this officially for the first time so I’m on record:

***i would select Fantilli over Bedard***

This kid is that good. He ticks every single box. Every one. And I think in 3 years he will already be a top 10 centre in the league and at his peak he is top 5 maybe only behind mcdavid, mackinnon and Matthews. I have him right after

I'm with ya that I would want Fantilli down the middle on my team. I'm not saying he will be better than Bedard. I'm saying that I wouldn't lose any sleep as a GM if I ended up with 2OA, I would be thrilled to select Fantilli and not look back.

Kid is everything you would want. The size to go with his ability is pretty hard to not be excited about. It would be hard to pass that up.
 
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I think comparing Fantilli to Eichel is overdoing it.

Eichel is an MVP candidate for Vegas. He was an MVP candidate the last season he wasn't injured for Buffalo. When healthy, which hasn't been too often the last few years, he's a top 10 player in the NHL.

I do not see that potential from Fantilli. I compare him to Beniers, who is turning into a very good NHL center. However, watching Beniers you see a player who lacks a little pop in his offensive skillset. Not really the type of player you look at as the guy you go to late in a game when you need a play. I liked to compare Beniers to Larkin, and if you want to compare Fantilli to Beniers, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to then look at Larkin for Fantilli.

Larkin is a very good player. 60 points per 82 games for his career, very fast, good defensively. He's a 1C, but he's not one of the elite 1C's. I don't think Beniers will be that, and I don't think Fantilli will be that either.

With Bedard and Michkov, if these guys hit their ceilings, they are 100 point players in their primes. And while you can say they are small, I don't think they are completely one-way players either.

Bedard is really strong on FO's for a 17 year old in the WHL. His listed height/weight also isn't as concerning as it was maybe a year or two ago. You'd be concerned about if a 5'9 165 pound guy can play center in the NHL. 5'10 185 is a different story. I also think the defensive effort Bedard plays with is better right now than Hughes did at the same age.

I could be wrong, but doesn't Michkov kill penalties for the SKA farm teams? He's also grown the last few years. Everyone talks about him being small, but he's 5'10. Thats not that small for a winger. He needs to get stronger, but he has years before he'll reach the NHL. With his hockey sense, I'm not predicting against his defensive ability once he's in his mid 20's. If you get someone with a real ethic to how they coach, they'll demand him to be a two-way player that plays a good defensive game as opposed to being happy with 60 power play points and not caring about the rest.

Don't overthink it and take the guy who you view as safer due to size/skating when the reasonable upside of the other selections is that much higher. If you're picking between players like Yager or Benson and Fantilli who don't have such higher upside or any higher upside, the size/skating argument isn't a bad one, but picking Fantilli over Bedard/Michkov could put you in a position where you're wondering why you have a caveman mentality and picked the 60 point 1B center over a perennial 100 point player who is simply a lot better at hockey.
 
Hockey player or serial killer? I really hope this is the picture for his rookie card.
 

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But it's not "ceteris paribus". Bedard is objectively better at most everything except being big.
Is Bedard a better center than Fantili? How many small elite center can you name in the NHL? High probability that he play in the wing in the NHL. Don't get me wrong Bedard is a better player. But is he a better center than Fantili?
 
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Is Bedard a better center than Fantili? How many small elite center can you name in the NHL? High probablity that he play in the wing in the NHL. Don't get me wrong Bedard is a better player. But is he a better center than Fantili?
Yes, extremely easily.

I mean, Crosby has what, an inch and 15 pounds on 17 year old Bedard?

This isn't some every year 1st round center who will transition because of his size and or skating, like Perfetti.

This is a generational player, who will jump straight in and be a league wide star immediately.
 
Is Bedard a better center than Fantili? How many small elite center can you name in the NHL? High probablity that he play in the wing in the NHL. Don't get me wrong Bedard is a better player. But is he a better center than Fantili?
These guys are all listed at "5'11" lol
Point
Hughes
Pavelski
Duchene

I think Bedard ends up listed around 5'10 190. With his talent I don't think playing center will be an issue, as long as he gets a bit faster. If he fails to continue developing he could end up a wing but I think thats unlikely.
 
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These guys are all listed at "5'11" lol
Point
Hughes
Pavelski
Duchene

I think Bedard ends up listed around 5'10 190. With his talent I don't think playing center will be an issue, as long as he gets a bit faster. If he fails to continue developing he could end up a wing but I think thats unlikely.
So.. not a single 5'9 or 5'10 elite center in 2022? Is he going to become the first in the modern Hockey to reach the 100 points as a 5'9/5'10 center in the NHL?

If Anaheim draft Bedard. Do they still try him in Center or play him in the wing with Zegras/McTavish?
 
So.. not a single 5'9 or 5'10 elite center in 2022? Is he going to become the first in the modern Hockey to reach the 100 points as a 5'9/5'10 center in the NHL?

If Anaheim draft Bedard. Do they still try him in Center or play him in the wing with Zegras/McTavish?
Brayden Point is listed at 5'10 still by most sources. He was 5'9 160 in his draft year. There is no way he's actually 5'11.

And yes, Bedard could absolutely be the first 5'10 center to reach 100 points.
 
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So.. not a single 5'9 or 5'10 elite center in 2022? Is he going to become the first in the modern Hockey to reach the 100 points as a 5'9/5'10 center in the NHL?

If Anaheim draft Bedard. Do they still try him in Center or play him in the wing with Zegras/McTavish?
What does modern mean? Post-expansion, or post-lock-out? Because there have been a bunch of small centers who had more than 100 points since the 60s.
 
I have no problem with someone saying Bedard > Fantilli . I can totally understand that. I think I prefer Fantilli but it’s splitting hairs. Can’t go wrong with either one.

I honestly have no counter argument other than he’s bigger and all else being equal, I would prefer size down the middle

No counter argument to a claim Bedard is better than Fantilli at literally every single hockey skill except size? Oof. Might as well draft Victor Wembanyama 1st overall.
 
What does modern mean? Post-expansion, or post-lock-out? Because there have been a bunch of small centers who had more than 100 points since the 60s.
I did say there no 5'9/5'10 100 points center in 2022... He could be the first.

Lol why go so far away? Hockey is completly different now vs the 60s. Has asking around the 2000-today
 
No counter argument to a claim Bedard is better than Fantilli at literally every single hockey skill except size? Oof. Might as well draft Victor Wembanyama 1st overall.
That’s literally what I said lol who are you
 
These guys are all listed at "5'11" lol
Point
Hughes
Pavelski
Duchene

I think Bedard ends up listed around 5'10 190. With his talent I don't think playing center will be an issue, as long as he gets a bit faster. If he fails to continue developing he could end up a wing but I think thats unlikely.

There's no chance either Point or Hughes are 5'11". The listed heights are bullocks.
 
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These guys are all listed at "5'11" lol
Point
Hughes
Pavelski
Duchene

I think Bedard ends up listed around 5'10 190. With his talent I don't think playing center will be an issue, as long as he gets a bit faster. If he fails to continue developing he could end up a wing but I think thats unlikely.
There’s no chance Pavelski is actually 5’11”, but he’s also played the majority (and best part) of his career at wing, so I don’t know if that’s a great example.
 
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There's no chance either Point or Hughes are 5'11". The listed heights are bullocks.
Yeah that's what I'm saying.

Going back a bit further, these are the listed heights for some notable scoring centers over the past 30+ years or so:
Yzerman was 5'10
Drury was 5'10
Lafontaine was 5'10
Broten was 5'10
S Koivu was 5'10
M Savard was 5'10
McDonald was 5'10
Sakic was 5'11
Datsyuk was 5'11
Oates was 5'11
Gomez was 5'11
Richards was 5'11
Weight was 5'11
Straka was 5'9
Trottier was 5'11
Dionne was 5'8
B Clarke was 5'10

I think even guys like Zetterberg and Brad Richards were likely around 5'10-5'11, not the 6'0 they were listed. Though the most egregious is probably Wayne Gretzky being listed at 6'0 lol - he used to be listed at 5'11
 
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In this thread I learned that Satan is determined to get Fantilli to play for the US.
 
That's fair. He played a lot more center earlier in his career, and I would say he did it pretty well.
He was definitely no slouch as a center but he was never a #1C, much less an elite center, which I believe was the original point. Pavs is and was an incredibly unique player; 5’10” and one of the worst skaters in the NHL turning into a superstar is a pretty unprecedented combination.
 
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