Speculation: Expansion draft - who are you protecting?

[Bluelines]

It says nothing about being a RFA... hence the no green check by his name.

* One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.

it's odd they give you guidelines for goalies but not for skaters

.. if a team elects to make a restricted free agent goalie available to meet this requirement, that goalie must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the team's protected list.

 

[Bluelines]

Edmonton has their own FA to sign.
Nugent Hopkins
Barrie
Mike Smith

And if Toronto agrees to sign Hyman why would they agree before the expansion draft?
When it is a massive advantage to sign him after.

Damn...wouldn't that be the best? If Seattle takes Hyman and we resign him??

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

 

[mydnyte]

No one is taking Kerfoot get a grip folks ... Dermy will be gone unless Dubie trades a pick for Seattle to take Kerfoot ... to me 2021 picks are useless so i would trade a pick to keep Dermy as young defenders are hard to give up on

Kerfoot may be one of the best Centers available, and has term at a good cap hit. he will be a consideration for sure.

 

[budzz]

Was just reading an article on nhl.com about a few things, one being the Capitals. Talking about their goalies for the expansion draft.
"Goalies Vanecek and Ilya Samsonov are potential candidates to be taken by the Kraken in the expansion draft. The Capitals can only protect one of them, and the rest of this season will determine who that is going to be. It seems they have more invested in Samsonov as a long-term solution, but we'll see how that plays out. Nothing is guaranteed as of now. If they just leave it alone and understand they might lose one of their goalies to the Kraken, at least they will still have the other one. They're in an enviable position because no matter what happens they will have a young goalie to ride into the future."

So that opens up all kinds of possibilities for another goalie at the expansion draft. The Kraken will have a shot at every number 2 in the league. I would assume Dubas and company are all over this and would reach out to them with various offers if they "pluck" the guy we want. Another example might be Jake Allen. A tandem of Allen and Campbell? There are likely alot of pretty good reasonably priced 2's out there.

 

[budzz]

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

I would suspect with an expansion draft, most teams will operate the same way with their UFA's. 31 teams have the same problem of protecting as many of their assets as possible. I doubt you will see many UFA deals before expansion from anyone. It is definitely risky though. Some teams might not know which player they are losing, which may increase urgency in a given position.

 

[seanlinden]

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

Hyman is genuinely a nice guy.

Why would he do a wink-wink nudge-nudge deal? very simple. He wants to stay, and wants to win in Toronto. This guy is from a wealthy Toronto family, and now has a family of his own. He has business interests that are certainly aided by his presence as a Toronto Maple Leaf.

Plus, realistically, "what's the rush?" for Zach Hyman to get his name on a contract. He knows how much the team values him. Even an injury is unlikely to derail the contract he's in line for.

 

[Ciao]

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

The Hyman family is a different kettle of fish.

His father, Stuart, purchased the bulk of the minor hockey club teams in Toronto when Zach and his brother were playing minor hockey; he bought the Hamilton Red Wings when Zach went on to play junior hockey there; and he bought a player scouting and rating agency when Zach was ready to be drafted by the NHL.

After Zach completed college, the Family was only interested in him playing for the Leafs and voila, the Leafs traded for his rights and he made the team. Incidentally, Stuart is a personal acquaintance of Larry Tanenbaum, which is suspected to have greased the wheels for Zach's arrival in Toronto.

I don't know where Zach lives, but the family home is in Forest Hill and I don't picture him leaving Toronto any time soon.

This isn't just some schlep that fell off the turnip truck.

 

[The Iceman]

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

BECAUSE he is Toronto's own Zach Hyman
And his first advisor was a young Kyle Dubas
And it is just the kind of dude he is...and I believe it 100%

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

4-4-1 and we lose Dermott or Kerfoot. Hyman is signed after the draft.

And losing a player in the expansion draft is not "losing them for nothing". It might not be the value some players are worth, some of these posts about exposing Rielly and Tavares are... wow guys... but it's a roster job that has to be done.

Wait, is this an option to shield a player from the draft? And are you assuming Hyman would be that loyal that he'd hold out to do it for us?

 

[LeafGrief]

Wait, is this an option to shield a player from the draft? And are you assuming Hyman would be that loyal that he'd hold out to do it for us?

Yes it is an option. I believe several teams and players followed similar strategies for the Vegas expansion draft. It does assume that Hyman would be loyal, but the expansion draft is on July 21st and Free Agency doesn't begin until the 28th. That gives us a full week to sign him. If we were going to sign him before the expansion draft and protect him, I imagine they would have extended him by now.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Last 2yrs centers PPG:

1. McDavid 1.56
2. Draisaitl 1.52
3. MacKinnon 1.34
4. Matthews 1.19
5. Malkin 1.17
6. Crosby 1.15
7. Zibanejad 1.10
8. Eichel 1.08
9. Scheifele 1.07
10. Barkov 1.03
11. Kopitar 0.95
12. Aho 0.94
13. Backstrom 0.94
14. Point 0.93
15. Pettersson 0.93
16. Couturier 0.92
17. Tavares 0.90
18. Bergeron 0.90
19. Barzal 0.89
20. O'Reilly 0.87

Stud 1Cs all.

How many of them eat up 11 million of their team's ca?

 

[zeke]

How many of them eat up 11 million of their team's ca?

Their price tag doesn't change their quality.

 

[Menzinger]

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

There's no incentive to sign early though. Unless he's legit worried about getting in an office accident, it really makes no difference whether the player is signed now or the day after the expansion draft.

If he's chasing the highest payout possible he's not going to get that contract from the Leafs anyways, so he'd be as good as gone regardless.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yes it is an option. I believe several teams and players followed similar strategies for the Vegas expansion draft. It does assume that Hyman would be loyal, but the expansion draft is on July 21st and Free Agency doesn't begin until the 28th. That gives us a full week to sign him. If we were going to sign him before the expansion draft and protect him, I imagine they would have extended him by now.

Then I guess I don't understand. If Hyman's not a UFA until July 28, can't Seattle claim him on the 21st?

 

[Gallagbi]

Then I guess I don't understand. If Hyman's not a UFA until July 28, can't Seattle claim him on the 21st?

Why would they if he becomes a UFA in a week?

 

[LeafGrief]

Then I guess I don't understand. If Hyman's not a UFA until July 28, can't Seattle claim him on the 21st?

They can, but he’s a UFA on the 28th and can sign with us. They can use their pick and a week to try and sign him if they want, but they’re more likely to want someone with a bit of control.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Edmonton has their own FA to sign.
Nugent Hopkins
Barrie
Mike Smith

And if Toronto agrees to sign Hyman why would they agree before the expansion draft?
When it is a massive advantage to sign him after.

Damn...wouldn't that be the best? If Seattle takes Hyman and we resign him??

1)You have to give Dubas some credit
2)They would be better off picking Dermott or Kerfoot.

 

[Egghead1999]

Why would Hyman agree to wait? Hymans agent can say, if you want my guy to wait till after the expansion draft, you need to bump his AAV +X%. If you make him wait my client will just go to the market as a UFA. There is nothing in it for Hyman to do a nudge nudge wink wink off the books deal. Nice guys don't exist when it comes down to $$$. He could easily argue, what if the teams I want to go to, that are willing to play me my market value, make trades during the expansion draft and then that limits my options? The agents wants Hyman to be selfish and the NHLPA wants him to be selfish. Why would he be the nice guy and do the Leafs a favor?

If I were Hyman and my agent was so stupid to do this, I would fire him. You know why. Leafs can sign Hyman before ED but not protect him. Or, you believe leafs will give him a NMC.

 

[seanlinden]

If I were Hyman and my agent was so stupid to do this, I would fire him. You know why. Leafs can sign Hyman before ED but not protect him. Or, you believe leafs will give him a NMC.

They probably will.

The Hymans aren't stupid. He's going to be leaving millions on the table to remain in Toronto... doesn't make much sense to go sign a 5-year deal, and maybe end up gone after 2.

 

[Bluelines]

If I were Hyman and my agent was so stupid to do this, I would fire him. You know why. Leafs can sign Hyman before ED but not protect him. Or, you believe leafs will give him a NMC.

It could be part of the discussion where he has a NMC.

 

[Bluelines]

There's no incentive to sign early though. Unless he's legit worried about getting in an office accident, it really makes no difference whether the player is signed now or the day after the expansion draft.

If he's chasing the highest payout possible he's not going to get that contract from the Leafs anyways, so he'd be as good as gone regardless.

So you are cool with Hyman hitting the open market, maybe a team with cap like Ottawa or Boston signs him, you OK with that?

 

[Bluelines]

BECAUSE he is Toronto's own Zach Hyman
And his first advisor was a young Kyle Dubas
And it is just the kind of dude he is...and I believe it 100%

I don't care if my Mother is my GM, I'm not taking no discount, which is what every player has said every time a contract comes up. Respect is shown by the $$$ a team pays you. Zach is taking no discounts, he is doing Kyle no favors.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't care if my Mother is my GM, I'm not taking no discount, which is what every player has said every time a contract comes up. Respect is shown by the $$$ a team pays you. Zach is taking no discounts, he is doing Kyle no favors.

That's a matter of opinion, and I think that's probably where you & Hyman differ.

Yes, respect is / can be shown by $$$. That perceived lack of respect is why Alex Pietrangelo, the St. Louis Blues captain, and best defenceman, is no longer a St. Louis Blue -- watching the money that he felt should have been allocated to him be spent on Justin Faulk.

With Hyman, the situation is a little bit different... both Hyman and Dubas are fully aware that he is not the team's best / most skilled player. Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander are all clearly above him in that regard. Hyman is the team's hardest working player, and the Leafs have rewarded and recognized that by using him primarily on the first line; and occasionally with other groups to get them going, and putting an A on his jersey for the reverse retro games. He has a legitimate chance to win a cup in Toronto in the next couple of years.

The reality is, because of the massive contracts to the big 4, Hyman will have to take a pretty substantial discount to remain a Leaf. That's not a sign of disrespect -- it's simply the reality when you're trying to build a team that has 50% of the cap tied up in 4 forwards; and you play forward. Both sides fully understand that.

If Hyman wants to "cash in" -- there are places he can do that. If he wants to remain a Leaf, waiting until after the ED is the way to do that, and there's no disrespect involved. He's going to be the team's 5th highest paid forward regardless; and that's probably where he views himself.

So you are cool with Hyman hitting the open market, maybe a team with cap like Ottawa or Boston signs him, you OK with that?

Hyman is a UFA, he has earned the right to go wherever he wants. If he wants to "cash in" and join Boston or Ottawa, there is nothing sensible the Leafs can do to stop that.

 

[Bluelines]

That's a matter of opinion, and I think that's probably where you & Hyman differ.

Yes, respect is / can be shown by $$$. That perceived lack of respect is why Alex Pietrangelo, the St. Louis Blues captain, and best defenceman, is no longer a St. Louis Blue -- watching the money that he felt should have been allocated to him be spent on Justin Faulk.

With Hyman, the situation is a little bit different... both Hyman and Dubas are fully aware that he is not the team's best / most skilled player. Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander are all clearly above him in that regard. Hyman is the team's hardest working player, and the Leafs have rewarded and recognized that by using him primarily on the first line; and occasionally with other groups to get them going, and putting an A on his jersey for the reverse retro games. He has a legitimate chance to win a cup in Toronto in the next couple of years.

The reality is, because of the massive contracts to the big 4, Hyman will have to take a pretty substantial discount to remain a Leaf. That's not a sign of disrespect -- it's simply the reality when you're trying to build a team that has 50% of the cap tied up in 4 forwards; and you play forward. Both sides fully understand that.

If Hyman wants to "cash in" -- there are places he can do that. If he wants to remain a Leaf, waiting until after the ED is the way to do that, and there's no disrespect involved. He's going to be the team's 5th highest paid forward regardless; and that's probably where he views himself.

Agreed he will be the 5th highest paid forward, IMO in the $5 mil range. He knows his market value and will be paid appropriately. It's not unusual for good teams to lose serviceable / good players Chicago for example had to dump Ladd, Buff, Bolland, Versteeg, Hjalarmson (sp?), Nemi and Shaw. Hyman will get paid , the only thing left to determine is what color his sweater will be next year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's a matter of opinion, and I think that's probably where you & Hyman differ.

Yes, respect is / can be shown by $$$. That perceived lack of respect is why Alex Pietrangelo, the St. Louis Blues captain, and best defenceman, is no longer a St. Louis Blue -- watching the money that he felt should have been allocated to him be spent on Justin Faulk.

With Hyman, the situation is a little bit different... both Hyman and Dubas are fully aware that he is not the team's best / most skilled player. Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander are all clearly above him in that regard. Hyman is the team's hardest working player, and the Leafs have rewarded and recognized that by using him primarily on the first line; and occasionally with other groups to get them going, and putting an A on his jersey for the reverse retro games. He has a legitimate chance to win a cup in Toronto in the next couple of years.

The reality is, because of the massive contracts to the big 4, Hyman will have to take a pretty substantial discount to remain a Leaf. That's not a sign of disrespect -- it's simply the reality when you're trying to build a team that has 50% of the cap tied up in 4 forwards; and you play forward. Both sides fully understand that.

If Hyman wants to "cash in" -- there are places he can do that. If he wants to remain a Leaf, waiting until after the ED is the way to do that, and there's no disrespect involved. He's going to be the team's 5th highest paid forward regardless; and that's probably where he views himself.

Hyman is a UFA, he has earned the right to go wherever he wants. If he wants to "cash in" and join Boston or Ottawa, there is nothing sensible the Leafs can do to stop that.

When you say "and that's probably where he views himself.", do you mean he views himself as the teams 5th best forward? Just curious, if that's the case then I think he might be selling himself short. Not that I want to start a debate or anything but to me it's clear that Tavares, Nylander and Hyman are the 3-5th best forward on the team. What order to put them in is much less clear and I think there's a case to made for Hyman being the best of those 3 today. Ice time is IMHO an excellent way of measuring value and by that measure, as of right now Keefe values Hyman over the other two.