Rumor: Everything JT Miller | Elias Pettersson trade Thread | Part 409

[Habs Halifax]

I don’t think they’re necessarily decided to move on from either Miller or EP yet.

Best outcome for the Canucks is to find a way for both players to coexist on the same team. Can't be that hard to do.... both players need to stop commenting about each other and if the Canucks win games, all this goes away

 

[rypper]

Best outcome for the Canucks is to find a way for both players to coexist on the same team. Can't be that hard to do.... both players need to stop commenting about each other and if the Canucks win games, all this goes away

Agreed. But neither player has commented on the other.

Winning makes everything fade to the background.

 

[sting101]

Pettersson once he moves past his knee issues and some of the in fighting will be at the top of the next tier behind McDavid MacKinnon Matthews Draisaitl Barkov. To get a C like that you move heaven and earth because every team with those players is a contender with smart moves and a top level PPQB D.

Canucks are not stupid were in a contention window. We have 2 guys in that next tier. Both have been able to produce 100pts and then offer utility in Selke level defending of Pettersson and Miller who can match physically against anyone.

"IF" we move either it has to be something in that next tier of Cs back or were done. So start the offers accordingly...
Anything with Pettersson has to include...
Eichel Point Aho Hughes Stutzle Hischier Necas Scheifele Thomas Suzuki Larkin Thompson Cooley

Miller if they HAVE to move him to make peace...you could live with getting worse but younger...
Johnston Hintz Barzal Horvat ErikssonEk Lundell Bennett Cozens

Anything without those names involves and we can just move on until one demands a trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed. But neither player has commented on the other.

Winning makes everything fade to the background.

Neither player has commented on the other? Like lately or never? This can't be a non issue with the latest smoke fans have been talking about.

Winning games does help for sure. For the Canucks sake, I hope they figure it out and find a way for both players to coexist.

 

[wintersej]

Reposting from the Hughes appreciation thread. Does this give y'all as much pause as it does me when thinking about big offers for EP and Miller?

 

[rypper]

Neither player has commented on the other? Like lately or never? This can't be a non issue with the latest smoke fans have been talking about.

Winning games does help for sure. For the Canucks sake, I hope they figure it out and find a way for both players to coexist.

Publicly. Who knows what happens behind closed doors.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Publicly. Who knows what happens behind closed doors.

I believe Pettersson's comments were taken out of context but still, I don't think Miller liked it. Pettersson called him a hot head about a year ago. The video was posted in these trade threads last week. I believe it was a year old ish.

Something had to happen lately (that we don't know about) to create all this smoke we have seen lately

 

[Peter Griffin]

Reposting from the Hughes appreciation thread. Does this give y'all as much pause as it does me when thinking about big offers for EP and Miller?

View attachment 960338

Look at the Canucks’ defense without Quinn Hughes.

 

[TageGod]

Terrible.

For whom? I doubt either team does it but it's a fun swap.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Reposting from the Hughes appreciation thread. Does this give y'all as much pause as it does me when thinking about big offers for EP and Miller?

View attachment 960338

Depends what you mean by pause, but Vancouver's D group outside of Hughes (and Hronek) has generally been awful. So it depends on who your team has at D-core (and how much Vancouver is asking for).

This is also missing a ton of context (For example, Miller and Pettersson have spent almost no time on the ice together without Hughes and Pettersson has a better xGF% without Hughes and Miller than Hughes does without Pettersson and Miller)and still says more about how good Hughes is and how important he is to Vancouver than it does about Pettersson or Miller.

 

[Rowlet]

Reposting from the Hughes appreciation thread. Does this give y'all as much pause as it does me when thinking about big offers for EP and Miller?

View attachment 960338

The 35% number can be disregarded, it has almost zero minutes.

As for Pettersson and Miller's 49 & 49.5's, the Canucks have nobody else capable of transitioning the puck, and Hughes is the best defenseman in the world, so of course the numbers will go down.

 

[ginner classic]

I would consider Zacha and Zadorov as the basis of a JT Miller package, but I think there would need to be a protected 1st rounder included.

 

[rypper]

For whom? I doubt either team does it but it's a fun swap.

For Vancouver. Hughes is the best player in the deal and if he finds his game again Pettersson is the second.

Terrible is an exaggeration but Hughes is closer to a top 5 player in the league this season.

 

[StickShift]

Reposting from the Hughes appreciation thread. Does this give y'all as much pause as it does me when thinking about big offers for EP and Miller?

View attachment 960338

I think that speaks more to the absolute drop-off in quality defensemen after Hughes and Hronek.

Imagine that chart except it's the combo of Pettersson/Miller/Myers or Pettersson/Miller/Deshernais.

 

[wintersej]

The 35% number can be disregarded, it has almost zero minutes.

As for Pettersson and Miller's 49 & 49.5's, the Canucks have nobody else capable of transitioning the puck, and Hughes is the best defenseman in the world, so of course the numbers will go down.

I hear everything you are saying and still see a couple of centers who actually might not be play drivers. If they are centers who rely on someone else to drive play, that's certainly something to note.

 

[Habs Halifax]

For whom? I doubt either team does it but it's a fun swap.

The thing is us Sabres and Habs fans are not the ones with the Miller/Pettersson situation. It's likely a very serious thing for the Canucks fans to contemplate so they will be on the cranky side of proposals that don't meet what they are after in return... and rightly so. I think the Sabres fans were like this with the Eichel trade offers as well. GM's and media/fans circle around like vultures looking to take advantage in situations like this and you can't blame them either. I think we all been victims and culprits at times with this

For Vancouver. Hughes is the best player in the deal and if he finds his game again Pettersson is the second.

Terrible is an exaggeration but Hughes is closer to a top 5 player in the league this season.

I see what you are saying but Hughes is also 2.5 years away from UFA. There is a little factor to be balanced there. Anyways, that type of trade is not happening

 

[sting101]

If you remove all those offensive zone faceoffs and situation where they deploy Hughes Hronek it eliminates a ton of faceoff win scoring chances that ended up goals or XGF

Thats without mentioning the bad list of on ice line mates and D pairs after they sit

 

[Captain Mountain]

I hear everything you are saying and still see a couple of centers who actually might not be play drivers. If they are centers who rely on someone else to drive play, that's certainly something to note.

What you cited has nothing to do with play driving.

 

[Three On Zero]

Best outcome for the Canucks is to find a way for both players to coexist on the same team. Can't be that hard to do.... both players need to stop commenting about each other and if the Canucks win games, all this goes away

Should be easy since that hasn’t happened.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Should be easy since that hasn’t happened.

So the latest noise is false smoke?

 

[sting101]

The thing is us Sabres and Habs fans are not the ones with the Miller/Pettersson situation. It's likely a very serious thing for the Canucks fans to contemplate so they will be on the cranky side of proposals that don't meet what they are after in return... and rightly so. I think the Sabres fans were like this with the Eichel trade offers as well. GM's and media/fans circle around like vultures looking to take advantage in situations like this and you can't blame them either. I think we all been victims and culprits at times with this

Fair point but neither have asked for trade so at this point it's still just a "shake up trade" not a situation where we HAVE TO trade someone to move on. Both made the long term commits knowing each other were gonna be here for the long term. They obviously had a big fight but it already is starting to look like it's blowing over. None of that has involved the Core or the Organization to spoil the relationships.

Of course management is listening while teams call and sniff it out. Who wouldn't. At this stage you have to force the trade with a legit offer that is lateral.

* If it's at stage where they are serious about cleaning it up then i could see them willing to entertain a little step back in player quality for future upswing for Miller but outside of that anything that has big step back immediate effects is just crazy talk and video game shxx

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Neither player is as good as pavel bure. Use that trade as the bar - then reduce the return a little.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fair point but neither have asked for trade so at this point it's still just a "shake up trade" not a situation where we HAVE TO trade someone to move on. Both made the long term commits knowing each other were gonna be here for the long term. They obviously had a big fight but it already is starting to look like it's blowing over. None of that has involved the Core or the Organization to spoil the relationships.

Of course management is listening while teams call and sniff it out. Who wouldn't. At this stage you have to force the trade with a legit offer that is lateral

What we don't know is what causes this latest smoke? Correct? Something had to happen lately or is this just the Canucks doing their due diligence and the fans/media are spinning it? No idea

All I can do as a Habs fan is throw out some different type of proposals we can afford. If it don't meet what you are after, we can't go deeper. And we are not interested in Miller. If EP40 is traded, I'd like to know what other teams are offering and if we have a shot at matching or beating it. If we can't, we pass. That's probably our approach

 

[Three On Zero]

So the latest noise is false smoke?

There is no “latest noise”.

The only thing the two have said about each other is that there is no issue and it’s the media reaching.

 

[Rowlet]

I hear everything you are saying and still see a couple of centers who actually might not be play drivers. If they are centers who rely on someone else to drive play, that's certainly something to note.

You are incorrect as you aren't looking at all the data.

When the Canucks play with none of the three on the ice, their stats are around 41%, Pettersson and Miller on the ice both give 5%+ to Canucks possession stats over the average Canuck. Pettersson and Miller absolutely do make the Canucks better, they just don't go over 50% because the rest of the defence is so terrible.