Even Gretzky is impressed by Barkov so far

[Ratsreign]

Edmonton Immediately tried to get McDavid away from Barkov matchup when they could at home. So that tells you how they think that matchup is going.

 

[Bruce Granville]

You are trying to hype up Bob to make yourself feel better about your dear Edmonton

Bob was outplayed by Swayman and Shesterkin and you can‘t blame him for that. Both were/are great.
Just because he now is facing Skinner and the Choking McDry‘s, he is still not the best goalie in these playoffs.
He is making great saves, for sure, but it‘s not like a different goalie wouldn‘t make any saves.

Barkov is still shutting down all superstars the league has thrown at him.
Btw, shutting down ONE player doesn‘t mean, the others on that line don‘t score at all.
Some posters seem to have issues understanding that.

Hockey is a team sport and D is a team effort. Some act like Bob stops all shots alone or that Forsling isn‘t a great defensive D man.

Facts are, Florida beat teams with better goaltending and Barkov shuts down superstars. There might be a correlation.

 

[kings11]

Barkov is still playing, so it’s not fair to compare him to player like Bergeron defensively. He have not reached that level of dominance yet. He is far above Kopitar for sure. Maybe tier below Bergeron and Datsyuk, with a chance to reach that tier but not above that. He needs to dominate his peers defensively year after year for the next 5-8 years to reach that tier. Possible? Yeah for sure, he dominated his peers this year, but it’s far from easy. He is overall better player compared to Bergeron, but needs to prove more to be called Datsyuk tier overall player. It’s possible, but far from certain.

I believe there is plenty of posters who overrate and underrate him. As for now he should be rated in between. If he wins the cup and Conn Smythe, he should be rated higher.

He’s nowhere near Kopitar, Bergeron or Datsyuk.. your entire argument is trash.. with that said, he is most definitely one of the best defensive forwards in the league and will continue to be for the foreseeable future..

 

[authentic]

He’s nowhere near Kopitar, Bergeron or Datsyuk.. your entire argument is trash.. with that said, he is most definitely one of the best defensive forwards in the league and will continue to be for the foreseeable future..

He's close to the first two, if not right there with them. None are comparable to Datsyuk though.

 

[eviohh26]

He's close to the first two, if not right there with them. None are comparable to Datsyuk though.

Offensively he is better than Bergeron but not better defensively.
He isn't as good Offensively or Defensively as Kopitar or Datsyuk .

Still a good player but recency bias is strong here .

 

[Hobble]

Only 2nd best ever? Still clearly underrated.

 

[Fatass]

Gretzky is the greatest ever. He knows when he’s watching the greatest player in the Cup Final. He’s 100% correct. Barkov is by far the dominant player in this Final.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Atleast my scales have been lifted.

Barkov actually bad, he slash, and he fake, only take elbow to jaw. Bad Barkov why u dive ... and slash

 

[HTFN]

Barkov being Barkov isn't some new thing. We knew this was his game before he got here, it's in his draft report. It turned out he was actually really good at it, and tons of fans knew that years ago so acting like he's some new flavor is just being mad that national broadcasts are giving him appropriate love while his team is doing well.

Like... he's a perennial Selke nominee at this point and had already won one before this year. What the f*** are you guys talking about?

 

[2for1PizzaPastuh]

Wildly different... in this one series, and that's giving you credit for this bad argument.

Barkov being Barkov isn't some new thing. We knew this was his game before he got here, it's in his draft report. It turned out he was actually really good at it, and tons of fans knew that years ago so acting like he's some new flavor is just being mad that national broadcasts are giving him appropriate love while his team is doing well.

Like... he's a perennial Selke nominee at this point and had already won one before this year. What the f*** are you guys talking about?

He's a top 7 center with an argument for #5 depending on the year. The many folks that have him up at #3 or even higher are the ones that are overrating him.

 

[JianYang]

Not that barkov isn't a great player, but gretzky would also pump the tires of your local zamboni driver.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

Atleast my scales have been lifted.

Barkov actually bad, he slash, and he fake, only take elbow to jaw. Bad Barkov why u dive ... and slash

Textbook leading by example.

 

[JianYang]

Sure, just like Kovalev is the most talented player Hyperbole Gretzky ever played against.

Out of all the examples of gretzkyisms, that's a strange one to single out. Kovalev's talent level has been recognized by many as being extraordinary.

 

[HTFN]

He's a top 7 center with an argument for #5 depending on the year. The many folks that have him up at #3 or even higher are the ones that are overrating him.

...in the regular season over 82 games.

Much like Bergeron, suddenly that rating goes up a little when he's in your face for 7. It's just not a new thing. Really good defensive forwards get knocked down the list a little and then the playoffs come around and they're standouts for good reason virtually every time. Selke guys get playoff teams in the mood to win games. If Backstrom weren't also a wizard he'd be on that list too and I'd have an axe to grind but instead he found the soft middle where he just wasn't talked about.

You're getting all wild about "ratings" when the reality is that winning tips scales. Being focused on how close Barkov is to the "top two" is not far off from "respect in the handshake line".

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Not that barkov isn't a great player, but gretzky would also pump the tires of your local zamboni driver.

It annoys me when people back up their view with Gretzky's opinion. That guy probably saw magnificent traits of talent in Shawn Antoski or Hunter Shinkaruk (while they were in NHL). If someone built a team with every "one of the best players" Gretzky has ever seen (in their prime), they'd probably have a very close match against expansion draft Columbus Blue Jackets.

 

[2for1PizzaPastuh]

...in the regular season over 82 games.

Much like Bergeron, suddenly that rating goes up a little when he's in your face for 7. It's just not a new thing. Really good defensive forwards get knocked down the list a little and then the playoffs come around and they're standouts for good reason virtually every time. Selke guys get playoff teams in the mood to win games. If Backstrom weren't also a wizard he'd be on that list too and I'd have an axe to grind but instead he found the soft middle where he just wasn't talked about.

You're getting all wild about "ratings" when the reality is that winning tips scales. Being focused on how close Barkov is to the "top two" is not far off from "respect in the handshake line".

He drops down even further in the regular season when you start adding in Hughes/Miller/EP.

You're not wrong, but that doesn't change how Barkov has just started to become rated this highly due to Bobrovsky's play in the series. This tale of Barkov's ability as "capable of shutting down McDavid head to head" is widely overblown.

 

[ijuka]

It annoys me when people back up their view with Gretzky's opinion. That guy probably saw magnificent traits of talent in Shawn Antoski or Hunter Shinkaruk (while they were in NHL). If someone built a team with every "one of the best players" Gretzky has ever seen (in their prime), they'd probably have a very close match against expansion draft Columbus Blue Jackets.

Gretzky has the name recognition. You can make instant headlines with Gretzky quotes, especially with big magazines whose readership probably isn't that dedicated to the sport.

For example, in our local Finnish news, Gretzky praising Barkov was used as a massive talking point, and it works. Most people don't stop to think that Gretzky indeed praises everyone he has the opportunity to praise.

I don't blame Gretzky, either. He's not in an easy situation. I think that what he's doing is the smart thing to do, and he's a liked and well-respected person in the community because of it. I don't think it'd be a great look if he was overly critical of everyone. He'd just come across as a bitter old man, the way many other former greats do.

Still, it'd be good to recognize the context. I think that Barkov was underrated for several years, but he's quickly shot up to become overrated instead.

Barkov is actually from my hometown, and he's also the reason I started following NHL actively back in 2013(no it was not because of Laine). Laine's from my hometown, too, of course. So I guess that to me, who's actively followed his entire career, it's a bit annoying to read how quickly the narrative changes.

 

[CashMash]

He drops down even further in the regular season when you start adding in Hughes/Miller/EP.

You're not wrong, but that doesn't change how Barkov has just started to become rated this highly due to Bobrovsky's play in the series. This tale of Barkov's ability as "capable of shutting down McDavid head to head" is widely overblown.

Every time I see you post, you're stuck on this series. What about all the other ones? Also, it's easy to blame all your team's failures on getting goalie'd. Goalies are voodo, after all. It was funny how Oilers fans said both McDavid and Draisaitl would absolutely steamroll Barkov.

The players mentioned don't have much of an offensive gap over Barkov at all... Barkov has had 96 points before, rivalling their best. He also put up 88 in 67. Call me when one of those guys win a Selke or two while putting up those numbers.

 

[2for1PizzaPastuh]

Every time I see you post, you're stuck on this series. What about all the other ones? Also, it's easy to blame all your team's failures on getting goalie'd. Goalies are voodo, after all. It was funny how Oilers fans said both McDavid and Draisaitl would absolutely steamroll Barkov.

The players mentioned don't have much of an offensive gap over Barkov at all... Barkov has had 96 points before, rivalling their best. He also put up 88 in 67. Call me when one of those guys win a Selke or two while putting up those numbers.

Only since this series has Barkov’s status been largely elevated into overrated territory. Do you think people would be putting Barkov at #3 if he had a Stu Skinner backing his team up between the pipes in these finals?

Like I said, he definitely has an argument for #5 over those players depending on the year, but no higher. I did miss a *potentially* in the last post you quoted.

 

[TheNumber4]

Every time I see you post, you're stuck on this series. What about all the other ones? Also, it's easy to blame all your team's failures on getting goalie'd. Goalies are voodo, after all. It was funny how Oilers fans said both McDavid and Draisaitl would absolutely steamroll Barkov.

The players mentioned don't have much of an offensive gap over Barkov at all... Barkov has had 96 points before, rivalling their best. He also put up 88 in 67. Call me when one of those guys win a Selke or two while putting up those numbers.

Lol 96 points. Once. Lol. The gap between the big boys Leon and McDavid and Barkov in offensive production if we are being serious is a gigantic.

 

[CashMash]

Only since this series has Barkov’s status been largely elevated into overrated territory. Do you think people would be putting Barkov at #3 if he had a Stu Skinner backing his team up between the pipes in these finals?

Like I said, he definitely has an argument for #5 over those players depending on the year, but no higher. I did miss a *potentially* in the last post you quoted.

As I've said before, the only centers I'd rank CLEARLY above him are:
McDavid
MacKinnon

Probably above:
Draisaitl (General scenario at least, not necessarily head-to-head)

Debatable or below:
Crosby (At this age)
Matthews (Impressive totals in the regular season, but his production falls off bigtime in the playoffs)
Etc.

I'd comfortably rank him #3-4. Some of the other centers mentioned don't have a big gap in numbers or have no gap at all, while being worse defensively... Draisaitl's gap in production is big enough that I'd say #4 is most comfortable (though I wonder how much Draisaitl would produce as a #1C with an average-to-good #2. As is, teams have to account for McDavid's line even when they are separate... Still, Malkin proved he could do it without Crosby with his best season in 2012, so maybe Drai would rise to the challenge). If Matthews produced in the playoffs, I'd also take him over Barkov. That means he's no lower than #5 in my book.

Regardless, Barkov is absolutely an elite center worthy of being in the Datsyuk, Kopitar, Bergeron, Toews, ROR territory of cup winners. It sure seems to be one way of building a cup winner.

With your point about Skinner, I'd say Skinner is sub-par. Is that really the measuring stick? Also, it's impossible to know what the consensus would be. Fan opinions vary wildly.

 

[CashMash]

Lol 96 points. Once. Lol. The gap between the big boys Leon and McDavid and Barkov in offensive production if we are being serious is a gigantic.

Read the whole post, please. I don't put Barkov at #1, so the two names mentioned are irrelevant. He brought up JT Miller, EP, and Jack Hughes.

Now, recalibrate and read what I said again.

 

[eviohh26]

Read the whole post, please. I don't put Barkov at #1, so the two names mentioned are irrelevant. He brought up JT Miller, EP, and Jack Hughes.

Now, recalibrate and read what I said again.

Barkov finished 23rd in PPG this season. That doesn't warrant 3rd best C or even a top 5C. He had .01 more Point Per Game than Pettersson who had a miserable 2nd half of the season. Outside of Florida and Finland you won't see much of an argument for him being a top 5 C.


Hate it or love it . Matthews has the same production as Barkov in the post season with on a lesser team. He also has 2 60G seasons almost a 70G. I'd have to rank him higher than Barkov.

 

[CashMash]

Barkov finished 23rd in PPG this season. That doesn't warrant 3rd best C or even a top 5C. He had .01 more Point Per Game than Pettersson who had a miserable 2nd half of the season. Outside of Florida and Finland you won't see much of an argument for him being a top 5 C.


Hate it or love it . Matthews has the same production as Barkov in the post season with on a lesser team. He also has 2 60G seasons almost a 70G. I'd have to rank him higher than Barkov.

PPG isn't everything, and placements don't say how much of a difference there is between them. Let's go through the centers above him in regular season scoring. I know you said PPG, but actually being in games should be taken into account as well... You don't produce if you're not in the lineup (which could be used against Barkov some years).

Stamkos
Thomas
EP
Aho
Point
Crosby
Reinhart
Miller
Draisaitl
Matthews
McDavid
MacKinnon

Which ones of those do you definitively take above Barkov, factoring in his defensive game? Crosby's all-around game is not really there as much as people say. I suspect it's because people want to find a way in which he remains a top player until his career ends. Stamkos... Naah. Never thought he was very impactful at center, especially when games get tighter. Kucherov is the real driving force on the lighting...

If it was about Finns, couldn't I substitute Barkov for Aho and call him a top center? He is elite for sure, but I don't think he has the overall game to beat out Barkov. Reinhart was impressive this year for Florida, but he isn't regarded as their best player.

Like I said, out of the ones above, the only centers I take ahead of Barkov right now are McDavid, MacKinnon, and probably Draisaitl (though I am interested to see how he would fare as a #1 with an average or good #2 center). Drai isn't a clear choice head-to-head for me, though. Based on talent, Matthews is probably ahead too, but he is a dud in the playoffs.

Barkov is in the Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews, ROR and Datsyuk mold (seems to be a good formula to build a contender around based on recent and not-so-recent history). He has 2 selkes. He was in the finals last year AND this year, with him leading the team in points this time around. He is their #1C. Trochek said he chose #16 to pay tribute to Barkov... Talk about a man-crush. His teammates adore him and his work ethic.

Your mileage may vary, but I would place Barkov at #3-5 among centers. Saying "Not even top 5" is out of touch in my opinion. Even worse, some say he's barely a top 10. In the playoffs, I'd take him over Matthews without a second thought based on the last two playoffs. Despite having a stacked team, Toronto has made it out of the first round ONCE. Florida just beat Boston, the bane of Toronto's existence, WITH Swayman being better than Bob.

 

[Steven Toast]

Gotta be honest, Gretzky is famously overly generous with his compliments. Not to say Barkov isn't an excellent 2 way centre, but to say "even Gretzky" is impressed doesn't mean as much as the title implies.

Gretzky would probably find a way to compliment my shot if he witnessed me float one on net from the blue line lol.