Bouchard gets the record for most assists by a defenseman in a playoff run.

[bucks_oil]

Using the same way of measurement you get a very different result.

5v5 over the last two regular seasons:

Makar and MacKinnon together
GF%: 60.00
xGF%: 55.88

Makar w/o MacKinnon
GF%: 44.93
xGF%: 51.91

MacKinnon w/o Makar
GF%: 62.04
xGF%: 53.92

Oooohhhh…. That’s not gonna help his argument, Cotten! Do you think he’ll concede to reason?

Not a chance buddy, not a chance.

 

[GreeningOil]

I still remember those handful of Canucks fans that called him an ECHLer a couple years ago.

On an absolute historic run by a D man in the playoffs.

By brother in Christ, that was mere months ago as well.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Some real Rob Brown vibes.

There’s a real talent but it’s obviously enhanced with McD. No way to tell how much.

Checks avatar.

Checks out.

 

[Vukotal Recall]

Fun fact:

Mike Green had 38 playoff points in his 76 game postseason career playing with arguably the best goalscorer in the history of the sport

Evan Bouchard has 32 playoff points *this run*

Also, Mike Green was friggin' awesome

 

[Oleksiak]

@Oleksiak tell the man how the defenceman with the most assists in a playoff run in NHL history is ECHL caliber at best

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

ahhh yeah that's the stuff.

 

[Cup or Bust]

For sure Bouchard gets a benefit playing with McDavid regularly, who wouldn't? He is very talented though and has a cannon of a shot. I actually think he benefits more defensively then offensively playing a lot 5 on 5 with McDavid's line because playing with Ekholm obviously helps and how much that line typically dominates the play. Bouchard will always be excellent offensively if he is running any teams powerplay. There was never a doubt about his offensive ability.

 

[PuckG]

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

Your posts are so atrocious that you should be put away and not allowed to discuss hockey until you learn some semblance of objectivity or hockey sense.

But what can you do - Oilers are stuck with Bouchard and we’re stuck with you. Although I give you credit, you’re a good representation of your fan base.

 

[psycat]

In 20-30 years this will likely be obscure/shocking hockey trivia unless he repeats something close to it.

 

[PuckG]

In 20-30 years this will likely be obscure/shocking hockey trivia unless he repeats something close to it.

Why would the expectation be that he repeats breaking records to get recognition for what he’s done?

Last year he had 17 points in 12 playoff games. This year, 32 in 23.

All people have to do is pay attention.

 

[mkatcherin00]

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

Bouchard is now 1 tier up on Hughes IMO. Bigger performer. Bigger dman. Monster #'s in reg and post season.

Makar still up at 1

 

[Spawn]

Some real Rob Brown vibes.

There’s a real talent but it’s obviously enhanced with McD. No way to tell how much.

Better than Hughes AINEC

 

[Bryanbryoil]

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

You should be a NHL GM and only deal with the Oilers.

 

[kingsholygrail]

They should give him Nurse's contract.

 

[GreeningOil]

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

No doubt, one of the worst takes in history

 

[Coffey]

They should give him Nurse's contract.

Jesus Christ. If only.

Meaning he should take Nurses exact contract and Nurse can exit the team.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Jesus Christ. If only.

Meaning he should take Nurses exact contract and Nurse can exit the team.

Just use some white out and swap the names.

 

[TheSecondSeason]

What a talent he's turned into. It helps to be mentored by someone like Ekholm and Paul Coffey. Only 24 too.

In 20-30 years this will likely be obscure/shocking hockey trivia unless he repeats something close to it.

Terrible take. So many flaws in this logic.

 

[ijuka]

In 20-30 years this will likely be obscure/shocking hockey trivia unless he repeats something close to it.

An all-time record is not obscure trivia, sorry. This is not a specific or an obscure record, either. It's an all-time assist record. Here are the top 5 for that title:

Evan Bouchard
Paul Coffey
Al MacInnis
Brian Leetch
Cale Makar

Is that a strong or a weak group of names?

By the way, Bobby Orr is #7 on that list, though he did do it in 15 games.

 

[Fourier]

That’s a pretty massive jump, do you think it’s situational (maybe they play a lot of minutes together when they’re chasing the game or something like that)?

I’m surprised that McDavid isn’t better than 57% without Bouchard.



No idea. Don’t see Colorado that much.

If you watch McDavid over the years you will see that he uses his defensemen a lot in the attacking zone. And he tends to play more off the right side than the left so it is the RHD that is most natural for him to play off of. If that RHD is Cody Ceci or Vinny Desharnais, not a lot creative happens. Mostly just a give and go to reset. But if it is Bouchard then there is a decent chance that something significant happens.

Bouchard is also very good at getting things moving forward off the rush. This plays well into McDavid's game. Again, much better than if the defenseman starting the play is Ceci or Desharnais. So the two really complement one another very well.

Bouchard is also very smart. He knows how to play off McDavid.

That said there is another kind of weird anomaly with McDavid. When a goal is scored with McDavid on the ice he is generally involved, but it is also that case that when a goal is scored involving McDavid there tends to be less than 2 assists assigned more often than with other players. The combination means that while lots of goals are scored when McDavid is on the ice, this may not float others numbers as much as expected.

As to the second issue:

From last year:
Makar with MacKinnon: GF% 57.58 xGF% 54.59 (898 minutes)
Makar without MacKinnon: GF% 40.54 xGF% 47.74 (405 minutes)
MacKinnon without Makar: 65.15% xGF% 60.01 (487 minutes)

The three year numbers are closer inline:
Makar with MacKinnon: GF% 62.58 xGF% 56.4 (898 minutes)
Makar without MacKinnon: GF% 52.47 xGF% 54.33 (405 minutes)
MacKinnon without Makar: 58.43% xGF% 52.15 (487 minutes)

Remember as well that these are 5 vs 5 numbers. There are few top end offensive defenseman who don't rely on having strong forwards for numbers because they almost always play a secondary role 5 vs 5 regardless of how good they are . A guy like Karlsson in 2022-23 was an exception. With the Sharks he was often their absolute go to guy for generating offense. You can see this in his IPP numbers. Last year he was at 66.67%, meaning that he was in on 2/3's of all goals scored when he was on the ice 5 vs 5. Other top defensemen are typically in the 50% or less range. This year for example, Karlson was down at 40% Hughes was at 46.74%, Josi at 50.00%, Bouchard was at 39.36% despite playing with McDavid a lot (see above) .

 

[604]

If you watch McDavid over the years you will see that he uses his defensemen a lot in the attacking zone. And he tends to play more off the right side than the left so it is the RHD that is most natural for him to play off of. If that RHD is Cody Ceci or Vinny Desharnais, not a lot creative happens. Mostly just a give and go to reset. But if it is Bouchard then there is a decent chance that something significant happens.

Bouchard is also very good at getting things moving forward off the rush. This plays well into McDavid's game. Again, much better than if the defenseman starting the play is Ceci or Desharnais. So the two really complement one another very well.

Bouchard is also very smart. He knows how to play off McDavid.

That said there is another kind of weird anomaly with McDavid. When a goal is scored with McDavid on the ice he is generally involved, but it is also that case that when a goal is scored involving McDavid there tends to be less than 2 assists assigned more often than with other players. The combination means that while lots of goals are scored when McDavid is on the ice, this may not float others numbers as much as expected.

As to the second issue:

From last year:
Makar with MacKinnon: GF% 57.58 xGF% 54.59 (898 minutes)
Makar without MacKinnon: GF% 40.54 xGF% 47.74 (405 minutes)
MacKinnon without Makar: 65.15% xGF% 60.01 (487 minutes)

The three year numbers are closer inline:
Makar with MacKinnon: GF% 62.58 xGF% 56.4 (898 minutes)
Makar without MacKinnon: GF% 52.47 xGF% 54.33 (405 minutes)
MacKinnon without Makar: 58.43% xGF% 52.15 (487 minutes)

Remember as well that these are 5 vs 5 numbers. There are few top end offensive defenseman who don't rely on having strong forwards for numbers because they almost always play a secondary role 5 vs 5 regardless of how good they are . A guy like Karlsson in 2022-23 was an exception. With the Sharks he was often their absolute go to guy for generating offense. You can see this in his IPP numbers. Last year he was at 66.67%, meaning that he was in on 2/3's of all goals scored when he was on the ice 5 vs 5. Other top defensemen are typically in the 50% or less range. This year for example, Karlson was down at 40% Hughes was at 46.74%, Josi at 50.00%, Bouchard was at 39.36% despite playing with McDavid a lot (see above) .

Any chance you have Hughes numbers from last year?

Really appreciate this breakdown.

 

[Fourier]

Any chance you have Hughes numbers from last year?

Really appreciate this breakdown.

Which numbers??

You can find the stats I quoted at Natural Stats Trick

Natural Stat Trick

But if you tell me which numbers you are looking for I could let you know.

 

[Skolman]

No one is doubting he can put up offence. However, his play in his own zone is so atrocious that he should be in the press box for an ECHL team and told that he'll only get into the lineup when he learns how to play defence.

Egg all over your damn face, but you're sticking to it eh.

Sit this one out, kid.

 

[604]

Which numbers??

You can find the stats I quoted at Natural Stats Trick

Natural Stat Trick

But if you tell me which numbers you are looking for I could let you know.

I was thinking about it and really there’s nothing for Hughes. He’s got Miller and Petey but their production is probably more reliant on being on with Hughes than the other way.

I still feel that Bouchard’s game fits McDavid’s really well in that his main assets (breakout pass, vision, shooting) compliment McDavid well while McDavid’s skating and overall game control help make up for Bouchard’s skating weakness.

 

[Fourier]

I was thinking about it and really there’s nothing for Hughes. He’s got Miller and Petey but their production is probably more reliant on being on with Hughes than the other way.

I still feel that Bouchard’s game fits McDavid’s really well in that his main assets (breakout pass, vision, shooting) compliment McDavid well while McDavid’s skating and overall game control help make up for Bouchard’s skating weakness.

Hughes is more like Karlsson in style. He will be more a focus of the offense than a complementary player with the Canucks.

No doubt Bouchard and McDavid fit well together. But it is not like Bouchard came out of no where. He was an offensive machine with London. He also put up 12 G and 35 ES points as a rookie.