Speculation: Erik Karlsson on the move at the deadline?

[Empoleon8771]

I just don't see how any decent GM can watch Karlsson in his own end and think this is something a contender would benefit from.

Your team traded a 1st for Kevin Shattenkirk at the deadline in 2017.

 

[Barsky]

Why would the Penguins be adding to Karlsson at $5 million to get Zub at $4.6 million? Karlsson is better than Zub and the two have the same term left on their deal.

I'd understand if he's just not available but the Penguins adding for him doesn't make sense.

Karl is a better "offenceman" but again, Zub is a defensive stalwart, is cheaper and younger and isn't being shopped like Karl likely is, so that always affects value. Staios would need to be convinced with value and assets or it's a no go

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Your team traded a 1st for Kevin Shattenkirk at the deadline in 2017.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Your team traded a 1st for Kevin Shattenkirk at the deadline in 2017.

Yeah, and that sucked very badly despite Shattenkirk being a billion times better at defense than Erik Karlsson.

I still don't quite understand why Pittsburgh went after him when they already had Letang playing a similar role. Reminds me of a team that traded for him when they already had Brent Burns

Agree, with Letang already there he was an especially poor fit in Pittsburgh. And maybe that's the best argument for Karlsson - that he just wasn't the right fit for his past two teams.

Unfortunately, there is also video.

 

[Barsky]

Zub is a no starter. He is basically our Petterson and the d would be soft as f*** without him.

No one is untouchable for the right price and his concussions are piling up and he and Sandy haven't been great, so selling high on him could be beneficial. Volchy was great too but Ottawa let him walk for a reason, guys who play a hard game like that can breakdown real fast once they hit their 30's

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

No one is untouchable for the right price and his concussions are piling up and he and Sandy haven't been great, so selling high on him could be beneficial. Volchy was great too but Ottawa let him walk for a reason, guys who play a hard game like that can breakdown real fast once they hit their 30's

he was awful after coming back from a concussion but lately he has been solid again.

point is that even if you want to trade Zub you have to do it to get a guy who plays like Zub and is RD. Otherwise the teambuilding is wack. if we get a player like that, sure trade him.

but i doubt anyone is gonna give us a player like that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know both are getting long in the tooth but I've always wanted to see him and Doughty together, especially since the Kings can deploy either as needed with Gavirkov and Anderson as safety valves. Both on the PP playing catch could be bonkers; both out there when you need a goal, etc...neither has had an elite partner (obv theyre not in their prime but having the elite IQ doesn't go away)...could be a pseudo pronger/neidermeyer

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, and that sucked very badly despite Shattenkirk being a billion times better at defense than Erik Karlsson.

Shattenkirk was just as terrible defensively as Karlsson is. He was literally bought out like 2 seasons later by the Rangers because he couldn't play defense.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Shattenkirk was just as terrible defensively as Karlsson is. He was literally bought out like 2 seasons later by the Rangers because he couldn't play defense.

Shattenkirk indeed sucked defensively. Still a billion times better than Karlsson defensively. BTW he was bought out also because his offense dried up. Whereas Karlsson has retained that aspect.

Truly, I don't know how you can't see it. You've seen a lot of Karlsson backing off while opposing forwards coast right by him and shoot on him unimpeded.

 

[Barsky]

he was awful after coming back from a concussion but lately he has been solid again.

point is that even if you want to trade Zub you have to do it to get a guy who plays like Zub and is RD. Otherwise the teambuilding is wack. if we get a player like that, sure trade him.

but i doubt anyone is gonna give us a player like that.

Sandy has the D game to play with Karl as well as the offense to compliment him, I'd love to see them together. Sens need more O from the D, that's pretty obvious for all to see

 

[SomeDude]

Shattenkirk indeed sucked defensively. Still a billion times better than Karlsson.

Truly, I don't know how you can't see it. You've seen a lot of Karlsson backing off while opposing forwards coast right by him and shoot on him unimpeded.

If you want to speak in hyperbole, Karlsson is a billion times better offensively than Shattenkirk.

You can get away with being one dimensional if you’re one of the best players at that dimension. Like Ovechkin.

 

[Barsky]

Shattenkirk indeed sucked defensively. Still a billion times better than Karlsson.

Truly, I don't know how you can't see it. You've seen a lot of Karlsson backing off while opposing forwards coast right by him and shoot on him unimpeded.

Sorry, but at what point was Shattenkirk ever better than Karl??!! At anything??

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Sandy has the D game to play with Karl as well as the offense to compliment him, I'd love to see them together. Sens need more O from the D, that's pretty obvious for all to see

I agree I think Sanderson is struggling trying to be elite offensively and defensively at the same time.

Sanderson-Karlsson would be a great pairing.

But if we lose Zub, third pair Kleven is the only guy who plays physical.

 

[Midnight Judges]

You can get away with being one dimensional if you’re one of the best players at that dimension. Like Ovechkin.

If you want to say things that are obviously and demonstrably false - that doesn't bother me.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I agree I think Sanderson is struggling trying to be elite offensively and defensively at the same time.

Sanderson-Karlsson would be a great pairing.

But if we lose Zub, third pair Kleven is the only guy who plays physical.

Yeah the only reason I asked about Zub is that I don't know that Ottawa would want to have all of Zub, Karlsson and Jensen on RD. I know Jensen has been excellent for the Senators and they're not going to want to move him, that's the main reason I asked about Zub.

From the Penguins side, I don't think they'd want to sink much value on Karlsson by insisting they get a good NHL D to replace him. It would be like Bunting in the Guentzel deal from last year, he's a good player but not really working out and not having a ton of value in the trade.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Sorry, but at what point was Shattenkirk ever better than Karl??!! At anything??

Tyler Sloan was better than Erik Karlsson is currently from a defensive standpoint.

Karlsson really is the absolute worst defenseman at defense in the entire NHL.

 

[SomeDude]

If you want to say things that are obviously and demonstrably false - that doesn't bother me.

Now you know how Pens fans feel about the doorknobs in here claiming Karlsson has negative or no value at 50% retention.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Karlsson at 5 or 6 million as a RD who is definitely still a top 60 D. (Top pairing worthy and this is under selling)

2.5 seasons of that is worth something. He probably could sign a 2 year 7 million dollar contract on the open market possibly 8 million.

Pittsburgh would take a cap dump back. A RD that is overpaid sitting on a bottom pairing is the most ideal.

A return would be a 1st with a small +
Or
2 2nds
Or
2nd + prospect that is B+

He's overpaid at 10 million slightly but make no mistake this player is still good at playing hockey and with a good team will look great. You still see it at times in Pittsburgh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Karlsson at 5 or 6 million as a RD who is definitely still a top 60 D. (Top pairing worthy and this is under selling)

2.5 seasons of that is worth something. He probably could sign a 2 year 7 million dollar contract on the open market possibly 8 million.

Pittsburgh would take a cap dump back. A RD that is overpaid sitting on a bottom pairing is the most ideal.

A return would be a 1st with a small +
Or
2 2nds
Or
2nd + prospect that is B+

He's overpaid at 10 million slightly but make no mistake this player is still good at playing hockey and with a good team will look great. You still see it at times in Pittsburgh.

Yeah this is pretty much what I'm expecting. Retain Karlsson down to like $6 million, take some cap dumps back and get like 2 2nds in value for him.

Something like Dumba, Amadio, a 2nd and a B prospect for Karlsson at $6 million is what I'm expecting from the Penguins side back for Karlsson.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Now you know how Pens fans feel about the doorknobs in here claiming Karlsson has negative or no value at 50% retention.

I wouldn't want Karlsson on the Capitals at any cost.

I'll take every current Capitals defenseman over Karlsson at this point.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Yeah this is pretty much what I'm expecting. Retain Karlsson down to like $6 million, take some cap dumps back and get like 2 2nds in value for him.

I don't want to sell us short. Go for the best return and hope a GM overpays to have Karlsson on his team.

I suggested in that Dallas thread what if we throw DOC in as I suspect he has a 3rd round value at the deadline to help boost the return.

 

[Barsky]

I agree I think Sanderson is struggling trying to be elite offensively and defensively at the same time.

Sanderson-Karlsson would be a great pairing.

But if we lose Zub, third pair Kleven is the only guy who plays physical.

Ya, but that's ok, with 2 great top 4 pairings that can play in all situations and hopefully an improved #3RD at some point they'd be fine. That's of course assuming Karl & Sandy would work at all, cause Jake would have to get used to alot less puck touches with Karl, but I think Jake can play any game you want so I'd like to see it

 

[SomeDude]

I wouldn't want Karlsson on the Capitals at any cost.

I'll take every current Capitals defenseman over Karlsson at this point.

You sure do seem interested seeing as you clicked on an Erik Karlsson trade rumor thread.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Tyler Sloan was better than Erik Karlsson is currently from a defensive standpoint.

Karlsson really is the absolute worst defenseman at defense in the entire NHL.

okay but last year Pettersson-Karlsson was a top 10 d-pair in the league.

 

[seanlinden]

I'm not saying PIT will need to attach anything to move him, but the difference between EK @ $5M at the deadline and Zadorov etc. is that those were all signings made in the summer so teams could balance their books around them. Adding $5M mid-year without sending any salary back is impossible for any contender.

IF Karlsson is moved it will be with heavy retention plus an icky contract or two back. Only then can you start to talk about the value for his services, and that will be further hampered by his NMC. This isn't going to be an easy trade for Dubas to make.

Teams always find a way to squeeze additional guys in at the deadline... whether it be LTIR, or some expiring contract.

If anything, the value of a player with a big cap hit (relative to draft picks) increases around the deadline time, as you're only worried about the cap hit squeeze for a few months.

Given where the cap is going this offseason, it seems highly likely that Pittsburgh would get a pretty substantial haul for Karlsson if they were prepared to retain 50% of the deal... but I can also see them holding off until the offseason, taking a lesser return, and maybe keeping the retention to 20% or so.

If the cap goes to the heights being discussed ($97m), there will be teams that can afford Karlsson at $8m to be their #2/3 defenceman, simply because there's nobody else to spend all that cap space on.