Value of: Erik Karlsson at the draft.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think we all expect him to be moved, he had a fantastic season but that's A LOT of money.

Who can even take him? and if they can, is it a place he's willing to go? Because he's said he's not interested in a rebuild

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[TheBeard]

Toronto for Knies and a first in 24

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Toronto for Knies and a first in 24

This thread was almost a "Value of Karlsson to the Leafs" thread but the money doesn't work.

 

[TheBeard]

This thread was almost a "Value of Karlsson to the Leafs" thread but the money doesn't work.

Karlsson with 25% retention for Nylander, Knies and a first

 

[Slimmy]

Is Toronto a realistic destination for Karlsson? What about Ottawa?
I get the feeling he will stay in San Jose.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Is Toronto a realistic destination for Karlsson? What about Ottawa?
I get the feeling he will stay in San Jose.

Who knows what the new GM will do, I won't say anything is impossible

 

[ZDH]

Don't see SJ getting much for him tbh.

 

[Mr Positive]

Is Toronto a realistic destination for Karlsson? What about Ottawa?
I get the feeling he will stay in San Jose.

Imo Karlsson is THE move the Leafs should do. They could move a core forward perhaps to a third party just to get picks to send to San Jose

With them (or even my Oilers), the glaring absence is the lack of an elite #1D. I know the response is that the Leafs are good for scoring and Karlsson's D is an issue, but he at least has talent. Like in Ottawa, on a good team you wouldn't notice his D issues because the puck would always be going the right way

No other elite D men will be available

 

[BlueSeal]

Address the contract first and then you’ll find the answer. Sharks have to retain a good chunk of it, if they don’t, EK stays in SJ.

No one is taking on that contract at anywhere near full value -and- giving up picks and prospects. That’s the fastest way to close whatever window you got.

And FWIW EK is not the 1D you should be looking for, unless your D core is solid and you need additional scoring on the backend. EK needs sheltering.

 

[Slimmy]

Address the contract first and then you’ll find the answer. Sharks have to retain a good chunk of it, if they don’t, EK stays in SJ.

No one is taking on that contract at anywhere near full value -and- giving up picks and prospects. That’s the fastest way to close whatever window you got.

And FWIW EK is not the 1D you should be looking for, unless your D core is solid and you need additional scoring on the backend. EK needs sheltering.

Sheltering would suggest Karlsson is not fit to play against the other teams top lines, which is nonsense. What I think you are trying to say is that Karlsson, like any talented D, needs a competent D partner, which is in short supply in SJ.

 

[Slimmy]

Imo Karlsson is THE move the Leafs should do. They could move a core forward perhaps to a third party just to get picks to send to San Jose

With them (or even my Oilers), the glaring absence is the lack of an elite #1D. I know the response is that the Leafs are good for scoring and Karlsson's D is an issue, but he at least has talent. Like in Ottawa, on a good team you wouldn't notice his D issues because the puck would always be going the right way

No other elite D men will be available

No player at any position as talented as Karlsson will be available. Lower cap hit, sure.

 

[BlueSeal]

Sheltering would suggest Karlsson is not fit to play against the other teams top lines, which is nonsense. What I think you are trying to say is that Karlsson, like any talented D, needs a competent D partner, which is in short supply in SJ.

EK is an heavily offensive Dman who gives up his D duties when he goes on the offensive and opens the door for opportunities if he loses the puck because he’s out of position. Vegas and the Blues used that to great advantage over the years in the playoffs, as an example.

There are many reasons to shelter a player, that’s one of them and yes, he needs a top 4 or better defensive Dman.

Folks eye him as a 1D type and he isn’t a true defensive Dman, he trades that for putting up points and the Sharks have lost games over that.

If your team is D sound and points are a need, he could be the answer but his contract is impossible unless the Sharks bite into it.

With that contract, EK is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

[Mr Positive]

EK is an offensive forward who gives up his D duties when he goes on the offensive and opens the door for opportunities if he loses the puck because he’s out of position. Vegas and the Blues used that to great advantage over the years in the playoffs, as an example.

There are many reasons to shelter a player, that’s one of them and yes, he needs a top 4 or better defensive Dman.

Folks eye him as a 1D type and he isn’t a true defensive Dman, he trades that for putting up points and the Sharks have lost games over that.

If your team is D sound and points are a need, he could be the answer but his contract is impossible unless the Sharks bite into it.

With that contract, EK is a luxury, not a necessity.

Contracts are just off ice concerns. What ultimately matters is the makeup of the team. There are ways to save cap elsewhere on quality depth, and that allows a team to withstand a bad contract.

As for the type of D Karlsson is, that's just what it is, a type. What matters is that he is an elite #1. Sure his defense isn't great but his offense is better than most elite D so what's the difference? Imo none other than how you build the team around the type of player

He is a game breaker with unreal hockey sense, in regular season or playoffs. Ottawa made great use of him by giving him a great defensive partner in Methot, and used other pairings in a shutdown role. They were a legit cup contender with him as their centerpiece

As for Karlsson in San Jose, would any other 1D do better? No elite player can carry a mediocre team. On a bad team we see negative qualities amplified.

 

[Slimmy]

EK is an offensive forward who gives up his D duties when he goes on the offensive and opens the door for opportunities if he loses the puck because he’s out of position. Vegas and the Blues used that to great advantage over the years in the playoffs, as an example.

There are many reasons to shelter a player, that’s one of them and yes, he needs a top 4 or better defensive Dman.

Folks eye him as a 1D type and he isn’t a true defensive Dman, he trades that for putting up points and the Sharks have lost games over that.

If your team is D sound and points are a need, he could be the answer but his contract is impossible unless the Sharks bite into it.

With that contract, EK is a luxury, not a necessity.

Not sure I'm following. Is he a forward or is he a defenseman?

 

[BlueSeal]

Not sure I'm following. Is he a forward or is he a defenseman?

Sorry he plays so much like a forward that it’s easy to make that mistake lol.

Seriously, it’s a bad cardinal sin-level typo on my part. Fixed. Here’s a like for you!

 

[Slimmy]

Sorry he plays so much like a forward that it’s easy to make that mistake lol.

Seriously, it’s a bad cardinal sin-level typo on my part. Fixed. Here’s a like for you!

I fundamentally disagree. I believe Karlsson is a once in a generation talent at the backend that has consistently been the best offensive defenseman in the league, not counting seasons where he struggled with injury. He's a McDavid level ayer that any team should want and make room for. I understand teams are under cap restraints and that Karlsson has jnjury history. He's also not in his prime. Still, he managed a 100pt season 9n a horrendous Sharks team. Not many players let alone defenceman could do the same. Hes incredibly gifted and illusive. A magician. A calming presence and absolutely dominant. He has his flaws and those are magnified after numerous injuries. But, there is not a better defenseman in the league. He is without a doubt a top 3 player. If your team can fit him under the cap you try to make it work. It's really that simple. With that said, Karlsson playes second fiddle to no one. You build the team around him and his strengths and weaknesses, just as you would with any other premier player.

 

[TheBeard]

EK is an heavily offensive Dman who gives up his D duties when he goes on the offensive and opens the door for opportunities if he loses the puck because he’s out of position. Vegas and the Blues used that to great advantage over the years in the playoffs, as an example.

There are many reasons to shelter a player, that’s one of them and yes, he needs a top 4 or better defensive Dman.

Folks eye him as a 1D type and he isn’t a true defensive Dman, he trades that for putting up points and the Sharks have lost games over that.

If your team is D sound and points are a need, he could be the answer but his contract is impossible unless the Sharks bite into it.

With that contract, EK is a luxury, not a necessity.

With EK in the lineup, Edmonton would have dispatched Vegas in 6

 

[BlueSeal]

With EK in the lineup, Edmonton would have dispatched Vegas in 6

Not with their goaltending.

Plus had the Oilers acquired him and gave up assets and cap room, I’d argue that their window might have closed. That contract + lost assets for it will cripple a team.

A comparable here would be Carey Price.

 

[TheBeard]

Not with their goaltending.

Plus had the Oilers acquired him and gave up assets and cap room, I’d argue that their window might have closed. That contract + lost assets for it will cripple a team.

A comparable here would be Carey Price.

Goaltending wouldn’t have mattered as much because the amount of time spent defending in their own zone would decrease significantly, also, I doubt the pieces going back would have had any affect on the team Edmonton iced this series. Maybe they take back Yamo and Ceci.

 

[BlueSeal]

Goaltending wouldn’t have mattered as much because the amount of time spent defending in their own zone would decrease significantly, also, I doubt the pieces going back would have had any affect on the team Edmonton iced this series. Maybe they take back Yamo and Ceci.

The Sharks would have already moved him given some of the rumored offers they got for him, which iirc came from the Oilers. Seems like the Sharks want far more with limited, if any, retention that any team is willing or feasibly can give up.

Otherwise he would have been gone at the TDL. If he’s the player everyone thinks he is, a franchise would have burned down the farm for him. His cost just seems very detrimental to a team that could use or want him.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

one of the stupidest myths on hf is that a guy who would play 30 minutes a night in the regular season and playoffs and dominate, needs sheltering.

the player on the other team need sheltering from EK.

 

[WSS11]

The Sharks would have already moved him given some of the rumored offers they got for him, which iirc came from the Oilers. Seems like the Sharks want far more with limited, if any, retention that any team is willing or feasibly can give up.

Otherwise he would have been gone at the TDL. If he’s the player everyone thinks he is, a franchise would have burned down the farm for him. His cost just seems very detrimental to a team that could use or want him.

It’s easier to make a trade of that significance in the offseason rather than the TDL.

 

[BlueSeal]

one of the stupidest myths on hf is that a guy who would play 30 minutes a night in the regular season and playoffs and dominate, needs sheltering.

the player on the other team need sheltering from EK.

*polishes his replica Blues Cup Ring* You don’t say.

It’s not some myth. He’s a good player with elite -offensive- upside but if he’s -that- dominant as some claim that he’s as elite a Dman as he is a scoring Dman, where’s his Cup?

Hell, the refs ALLOWED a hand-thrown goal and the Sharks still couldn’t beat us with him.

You can’t dominate if you still lose. That’s not what the word means. Vegas literally scored like mad with him on the ice in their first year.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

*polishes his replica Blues Cup Ring* You don’t say.

It’s not some myth. He’s a good player with elite -offensive- upside but if he’s -that- dominant as some claim that he’s as elite a Dman as he is a scoring Dman, where’s his Cup?

Hell, the refs ALLOWED a hand-thrown goal and the Sharks still couldn’t beat us with him.

You can’t dominate if you still lose. That’s not what the word means. Vegas literally scored like mad with him on the ice in their first year.

why judge a player playing injured as his baseline? that makes no sense.

Karlsson got injured that year, and came back early just to play in the playoffs, but anyone with eyes could see he was labouring. dont even think he played the last couple of games against the blues.

using one playoff post season as the barometer of a players entire career is so f***ing stupid anyway. let alone when the one post season where he was injured.

smh

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Toronto for Knies and a first in 24

Leafs immediately hang up.

Knies' value to the Leafs is much higher than his market trade value.