Value of: Erik Karlsson at the draft

[Pinkfloyd]

Look at the Burns trade, would the Sharks make that same trade for EK?

They shouldn’t. Burns got traded with a hefty discount to make it work. They need EK to return assets and should retain only if it gets them more assets.

To an extent, yes I do think they would make a similar trade. The Sharks need to move EK because he's done everything they could possibly ask of him to elevate his value and they're rebuilding. No different than Burns. They got a bunch of assets out of Meier and will get more than they did for Burns but they will get enough to live. Their rebuild success is unlikely to depend on the return on EK. It's going to probably have more to do with their lottery luck the next few years.

 

[Leafshater67]

I get that they are missing some of the real top end talent but they were ranked 14 or something like that by The Athletic and that was before Thrun, Shakir, and Ohtotiuk came in. It’s just astounding how outdated that take is at this point.

Eklund, Bordeleau, Bystedt, Gushchin, Robins are all forwards who realistically have shown NHL potential. That’s not including guys like Lund, Coe, Ozzy, Cardwell, Young who have shown flashes or the older guys like Peterson, Kaut, Zetterlund, Chmelevski.

Shakir, Thrun, Havelid, Laroque on D not including Fisher, Furlong who have shown flashes and the older guys like Ferraro, Cicek, Kniazev, Ohtokiuk.

Makaniemi, Gaudreau, Mann, Chrona, Beaupit in goal.

Like I get it none of these names really jump off the page apart from Eklund and Shakir to a more casual fan but lots of these guys have shown some solid potential. You’d think by sheer numbers they’ll luck into one or two more impact NHLers.

You can’t rebuild a team around those guys and win. You need blue chip, top prospects. They need to blow it up

 

[Gecklund]

You can’t rebuild a team around those guys and win. You need blue chip, top prospects. They need to blow it up

They don’t need to blow it up anymore than they have. You understand they finished 4th worst with Karlsson playing out of his f***ing mind and Timo on a tear to start the season right? You can build a team around those guys and win especially when you consider that the next few years they’ll likely be picking top 5.

 

[BlueSeal]

They don’t need to blow it up anymore than they have. You understand they finished 4th worst with Karlsson playing out of his f***ing mind and Timo on a tear to start the season right? You can build a team around those guys and win especially when you consider that the next few years they’ll likely be picking top 5.

By the time the team is ready to contend, EK will be retiring. Let the window close, rebuild and open it back up when it’s time.

 

[Gecklund]

By the time the team is ready to contend, EK will be retiring. Let the window close, rebuild and open it back up when it’s time.

Okay? So what does that have to do with us getting nothing in return for EK?

 

[BlueSeal]

Okay? So what does that have to do with us getting nothing in return for EK?

If you're moving that contract, you won't get much if you move it at full value. Like Burns, you're going to have to eat a significant chunk of it to get more assets and to move him (I can see a condition of retaining to be to get another first or a blue chip prospect). It's been or it has been said to be the position of the front office not to retain much on EK's contract, that's why he's still in SJ. His contract was signed by the Sharks for him to STAY in SJ, not to have the ability to move him at some point, so it's going to be near impossible to move unless you retain.

 

[Gecklund]

If you're moving that contract, you won't get much if you move it at full value. Like Burns, you're going to have to eat a significant chunk of it to get more assets and to move him (I can see a condition of retaining to be to get another first or a blue chip prospect). It's been or it has been said to be the position of the front office not to retain much on EK's contract, that's why he's still in SJ. His contract was signed by the Sharks for him to STAY in SJ, not to have the ability to move him at some point, so it's going to be near impossible to move unless you retain.

Then keep him because if we are only getting what Burns returned f*** that. Comparing Burns and Karlsson is stupid. Burns asked out. Karlsson didn’t. Burns was worse than Karlsson and always has been. And is older.

 

[McVespa99]

I don’t think my ask is unrealistic at all. If we don’t get it we will just keep him.


You can see him however you want. The actual informed people are him as much more considering he’s the best defenseman in the league.

LOL. Having a great offensive year does not make him the best Dman in the league.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Then keep him because if we are only getting what Burns returned f*** that. Comparing Burns and Karlsson is stupid. Burns asked out. Karlsson didn’t. Burns was worse than Karlsson and always has been. And is older.

What do we get from keeping him? He just had a historic season and led the Sharks to the 4th worst record in the league. Without him, we could have easily finished last and got a better shot at Bedard. Who knows if that would have happened but the point is, Karlsson playing well for the Sharks is pretty much worthless. It would be better for Karlsson and the Sharks if Grier moved him at the draft for the best offer he gets. Just like he did with Burns and Meier.

 

[authentic]

LOL. Having a great offensive year does not make him the best Dman in the league.

I'd say it certainly puts him in the conversation given his track record. He has his first healthy seasons since league scoring goes through the roof and suddenly he has a higher percentage of his teams points for any defenseman of all time.

 

[Gecklund]

What do we get from keeping him? He just had a historic season and led the Sharks to the 4th worst record in the league. Without him, we could have easily finished last and got a better shot at Bedard. Who knows if that would have happened but the point is, Karlsson playing well for the Sharks is pretty much worthless. It would be better for Karlsson and the Sharks if Grier moved him at the draft for the best offer he gets. Just like he did with Burns and Meier.

Ticket sales? Retention spots? Increased returns on players for the next 4 years? The ability of Karlsson to make shit look good? Megna, Middleton shouldn’t have gotten what they did (although Kahkonen has a ton of issues) Karlsson upped their value.

And no they wouldn’t have. Timo was more the one forcing wins not Karlsson. Look at how they ended the season.

LOL. Having a great offensive year does not make him the best Dman in the league.

You mean him having the best year by a dman in 30 years doesn’t make him the best dman in the league? It sure as f*** does for last year.

The person who is loudest in this thread also happens to be the dumbest.

You can f*** off bud. Love this little shot. Just because I wouldn’t trade Karlsson for shit and keep money, I’m dumb. Yep makes perfect sense

 

[Tempo]

Ticket sales? Retention spots? Increased returns on players for the next 4 years? The ability of Karlsson to make shit look good? Megna, Middleton shouldn’t have gotten what they did (although Kahkonen has a ton of issues) Karlsson upped their value.

And no they wouldn’t have. Timo was more the one forcing wins not Karlsson. Look at how they ended the season.

You mean him having the best year by a dman in 30 years doesn’t make him the best dman in the league? It sure as f*** does for last year.

You can f*** off bud. Love this little shot.

I like how you immediately recognized who is the dumbest.

 

[Gecklund]

I like how you immediately recognized who is the dumbest.

Or you know because I’m active in this thread. Genuinely f*** you and f*** off bud.

Can’t even dispute my points just bring in personal shots. Really shows your intelligence.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I'd love to see what offers Sharks fans think would be reasonable. Without retention you eliminate basically all of the teams and you'd have to go to almost 50% retention for most of the top teams (who would want to add Karlsson) to get interested.

I think Buffalo makes sense as a trade partner as they have both cap space, a need for a RD and are trying to take the next step but that's pretty much the only team I can think of.

 

[McVespa99]

I'd say it certainly puts him in the conversation given his track record. He has his first healthy seasons since league scoring goes through the roof and suddenly he has a higher percentage of his teams points for any defenseman of all time.

Im not trying to diminish what he has done this year but he is just not in the conversation for me. I need a dman to play a bit of D to have him anywhere near the top of the league. Maybe that is just me though. He may well win the Norris

Ticket sales? Retention spots? Increased returns on players for the next 4 years? The ability of Karlsson to make shit look good? Megna, Middleton shouldn’t have gotten what they did (although Kahkonen has a ton of issues) Karlsson upped their value.

And no they wouldn’t have. Timo was more the one forcing wins not Karlsson. Look at how they ended the season.

You mean him having the best year by a dman in 30 years doesn’t make him the best dman in the league? It sure as f*** does for last year.

You can f*** off bud. Love this little shot. Just because I wouldn’t trade Karlsson for shit and keep money, I’m dumb. Yep makes perfect sense

You left out one very important word between the words best, and year. Offensive

 

[Gecklund]

I'd love to see what offers Sharks fans think would be reasonable. Without retention you eliminate basically all of the teams and you'd have to go to almost 50% retention for most of the top teams (who would want to add Karlsson) to get interested.

I think Buffalo makes sense as a trade partner as they have both cap space, a need for a RD and are trying to take the next step but that's pretty much the only team I can think of.

1st, good prospect (doesn’t necessarily have to be top), conditional first based on Karlsson stats if they can still do that (don’t know with the new CBA), 7.5M in cap dumps, for Karlsson at 2M retained and depending on the cap dumps maybe throw in someone like Lorentz or MacDonald.

Basically both teams end with about 9.5M on their cap from this trade (Karlsson at 9.5M, 7.5 in cap dumps and 2M from retention). Sharks pick up an extra pick and if Karlsson puts up x points or plays in x percentage of games, they get one more. Other team probably upgrades their D (assuming they send one back as a cap dump) and then pick up good depth.

 

[Gecklund]

Im not trying to diminish what he has done this year but he is just not in the conversation for me. I need a dman to play a bit of D to have him anywhere near the top of the league. Maybe that is just me though. He may well win the Norris


You left out one very important word between the words best, and year. Offensive

Nope. You’re wrong about Karlsson not playing defense. Karlsson isn’t some elite shutdown D but he’s pretty average. He repeatedly gets left out to dry but Sharks goalies, his partners or whatever forward was supposed to be covering for him while he made plays offensively.

It definitely decreased towards the end of the season due to exhaustion and the Sharks just giving up in general but especially early on in the season he was damn good. Just too many times where his partner or the other forward get beat and he’s sprinting back trying to cover.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

1st, good prospect (doesn’t necessarily have to be top), conditional first based on Karlsson stats if they can still do that (don’t know with the new CBA), 7.5M in cap dumps, for Karlsson at 2M retained and depending on the cap dumps maybe throw in someone like Lorentz or MacDonald.

Basically both teams end with about 9.5M on their cap from this trade (Karlsson at 9.5M, 7.5 in cap dumps and 2M from retention). Sharks pick up an extra pick and if Karlsson puts up x points or plays in x percentage of games, they get one more. Other team probably upgrades their D (assuming they send one back as a cap dump) and then pick up good depth.

Maybe OEL gets convinced to waive for SJ and Karlsson gets convinced to waive for VAN? There aren't many teams with crippling cap killing contracts I can think of that they are looking to dump at the draft, and would be willing to add 9.5m x 4 in its place.

 

[Gecklund]

Maybe OEL gets convinced to waive for SJ and Karlsson gets convinced to waive for VAN? There aren't many teams with crippling cap killing contracts I can think of that they are looking to dump at the draft, and would be willing to add 9.5m x 4 in its place.

I mean I figured it would be multiple cap pieces. I’m still thinking Seattle. Driedger (3.5), Schultz (3.0), and one of their forwards that make around 2ish.

Megna-Karlsson (was elite for SJ)
Dunn-Larsson (was elite for SEA)
Oleksiak-Borgen

Their D corps would instantly look like one of the best in the league. They really aren’t subtracting much from their main roster and have the prospects to make up for it. Throw on a 23 1st, Conditional 24 1st if Karlsson plays let’s say 60 games and scores 60 points or whatever (just throwing numbers out), Goyette or Firkus (picked them because they’re probably furthest from the NHL roster).

Maybe Sharks throw in like Jacob MacDonald who would be an upgrade on Borgen, Lorentz who was a good PKer for us and 4C for them with so much of their bottom 6 FAs this year, maybe another contract or 2 from SJ to make contract match.

Really just spitballing here but I think it’ll look similar to the Timo trade.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd love to see what offers Sharks fans think would be reasonable. Without retention you eliminate basically all of the teams and you'd have to go to almost 50% retention for most of the top teams (who would want to add Karlsson) to get interested.

I think Buffalo makes sense as a trade partner as they have both cap space, a need for a RD and are trying to take the next step but that's pretty much the only team I can think of.

It depends on the ask as it relates to Karlsson. I don't think anyone except for Bizz is going to actually be anti-retention. It's more about how much retention is being asked and the price of that retention. Any retention beyond 2 mil is going to cost extra. Some teams will need that extra retention and some won't and what the cost would be is very dependent on how much retention and what other contracts are being sent the Sharks way that may be those that can't be flipped. I think Buffalo could make some sense but discussions with them on here don't seem to reflect a desire to make a deal there. Since Dahlin can switch to the right side, the need isn't going to push them into something here unless it's a real steal for them. I think other teams like Edmonton and maybe Florida if they can get Ekblad to move (whether it's to San Jose or elsewhere due to his trade protections) will push a little harder to make a move here in the offseason. There are other teams that could be in there too like Detroit (though like Buffalo not as much need to make something happen) but it's tough to say until the playoffs are over and everyone reassesses where they're at. Someone will be happy to get Karlsson for a 1st, a prospect, and some cap when Karlsson will be at 9.5 mil or less to them.

 

[McVespa99]

Nope. You’re wrong about Karlsson not playing defense. Karlsson isn’t some elite shutdown D but he’s pretty average. He repeatedly gets left out to dry but Sharks goalies, his partners or whatever forward was supposed to be covering for him while he made plays offensively.

It definitely decreased towards the end of the season due to exhaustion and the Sharks just giving up in general but especially early on in the season he was damn good. Just too many times where his partner or the other forward get beat and he’s sprinting back trying to cover.

I dont doubt that a lot of this is true. Sharks were not very good this year

 

[Gecklund]

I dont doubt that a lot of this is true. Sharks were not very good this year

No they really weren’t. The bright spots this year were Karlsson, Timo, Barabanov and the few games that Eklund played. Everything else was average at best, barely ECHL level at worst. There were so many times where Karlsson’s partner pinches at the point when Karlsson is already down in the offensive zone, puck beats his partner, suddenly Karlsson is hauling ass back to try to cover and obviously gets beat. You come to the main boards and he’s getting blamed for getting beat instead of his partner who should have just gone back.

Other examples were when Karlsson would play a pass to a forward to get out of the zone, they weren’t ready for it, puck gets stolen and Karlsson gets blamed.

Karlsson definitely isnt some stalwart defensive D but he also isn’t the fourth forward that people make him out to be. He’s pretty average defensively which when you combine that with his skating and offensive ability is pretty damn good.

 

[BlueSeal]

Then keep him because if we are only getting what Burns returned f*** that. Comparing Burns and Karlsson is stupid. Burns asked out. Karlsson didn’t. Burns was worse than Karlsson and always has been. And is older.

From where I'm sitting, I figure he returns a package with something like 2 1sts (one of those first being in this draft), a blue chip player, a 2nd and a roster player or two with something like 25% retained. I'm not saying the Sharks can't do better but this would be my bar to move him.

EK should get a lot more in return than Burns (His total contract is something like 8mx3) just on skill and drive alone. The problem is, EK's contract is a LOT more at 11.5 x 4 for a dman who really needs to be sheltered.

If the Sharks retain half, they should get another 1st on top of what I call my bar above. Defense issues aside, he is legit a piece of the puzzle and on a strong blueline he can help make a team a contender very quickly.

Problem is, the Sharks front office doesn't really want to retain and rebuild. If they did, EK would be long gone.

 

[BlueSeal]

No they really weren’t. The bright spots this year were Karlsson, Timo, Barabanov and the few games that Eklund played. Everything else was average at best, barely ECHL level at worst. There were so many times where Karlsson’s partner pinches at the point when Karlsson is already down in the offensive zone, puck beats his partner, suddenly Karlsson is hauling ass back to try to cover and obviously gets beat. You come to the main boards and he’s getting blamed for getting beat instead of his partner who should have just gone back.

Other examples were when Karlsson would play a pass to a forward to get out of the zone, they weren’t ready for it, puck gets stolen and Karlsson gets blamed.

Karlsson definitely isnt some stalwart defensive D but he also isn’t the fourth forward that people make him out to be. He’s pretty average defensively which when you combine that with his skating and offensive ability is pretty damn good.

IMO EK is really an anomaly and a leader in the room. It doesn't matter how good or bad the team is, he'll show up and give 110%. He's a weird in-between Forward/Defenseman who suffers because of that. If he goes offense he really gives up a chunk of his own D. Guy is an absolute warrior and a credit to the sweater he's wearing.

The person who is loudest in this thread also happens to be the dumbest.

We're all having a conversation and I don't have to agree with someone's pov to respect them. We're all fans of hockey here.

 

[Gecklund]

From where I'm sitting, I figure he returns a package with something like 2 1sts (one of those first being in this draft), a blue chip player, a 2nd and a roster player or two with something like 25% retained. I'm not saying the Sharks can't do better but this would be my bar to move him.

EK should get a lot more in return than Burns (His total contract is something like 8mx3) just on skill and drive alone. The problem is, EK's contract is a LOT more at 11.5 x 4 for a dman who really needs to be sheltered.

If the Sharks retain half, they should get another 1st on top of what I call my bar above. Defense issues aside, he is legit a piece of the puzzle and on a strong blueline he can help make a team a contender very quickly.

Problem is, the Sharks front office doesn't really want to retain and rebuild. If they did, EK would be long gone.

Yeah I think the Timo trade is a pretty good comparison. Some cap dumps, some prospects, some picks, various things. My bar to move Karlsson is actually a bit lower than yours.

I think the big issue with retention is that they already retained on Burns. Having 2 of 3 retention spots taken up through 24-25 can easily come back to bite them in the ass.

I also don’t think they need to tear down anymore than they have to be poop for the next few years. I think the team right now is perfect balance between competitive and not skilled to stay bad and also help ease young guys in. Eklund should be on the roster full time but I think that will be it in terms of young guys. It feels like most rebuild teams would be rushing a guy like Gushchin or Bordeleau. It’s nice that they aren’t needed in the NHL right now to fill spots.

IMO EK is really an anomaly and a leader in the room. It doesn't matter how good or bad the team is, he'll show up and give 110%. He's a weird in-between Forward/Defenseman who suffers because of that. If he goes offense he really gives up a chunk of his own D. Guy is an absolute warrior and a credit to the sweater he's wearing.


We're all having a conversation and I don't have to agree with someone's pov to respect them. We're all fans of hockey here.

I agree with all of that. And I think that’s another reason I’d love to keep him. Give the young guys someone to look up and learn from. I think Couture can be/is that guy too but man he gives off asshole vibes.