Erie Otters 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part One)

[Guy In Burlington]

I’d say it’s 90% Lalonde wasn’t going to be in their plans next year either.

I see this as a deal that ships out a guy who needs a change of scenery (and who fans have wanted gone for more than a year) for a guy who went to the conference finals last year.

 

[Mata]

I’d say it’s 90% Lalonde wasn’t going to be in their plans next year either.

I see this as a deal that ships out a guy who needs a change of scenery (and who fans have wanted gone for more than a year) for a guy who went to the conference finals last year.

You don't think it was a steep price to pay for an OA and a team that is likely not close to a cup run?

I mean, I'm not saying I wanted Lalonde gone...I just wish his trending had continued upwards from his first season here.

As another poster stated, maybe it's so the team itself doesn't cave from poor results which makes a little more sense.

 

[NOA]

You don't think it was a steep price to pay for an OA and a team that is likely not close to a cup run?

I mean, I'm not saying I wanted Lalonde gone...I just wish his trending had continued upwards from his first season here.

As another poster stated, maybe it's so the team itself doesn't cave from poor results which makes a little more sense.

Such an unbelievable trade. Yet again, REAL assets for a rental player, for a short term goal of just making the playoffs? I mean this is once again straight negligence by DB. I cannot comprehend how JW is still letting this guy lead the org and make these moves. I’m not telling you Gaudreau sucks but the guy had a .889% last year on a team that won 41 games. He’s never been over .891 in his career.

Serious question.. does Dave just look across the league and see a player was NHL drafted and that’s his scouting? That’s all he does? Overpaid for Golden, overpaid for Gilmartin, and now imo he overpaid for Gaudreau. It’s literally 4 games into the season and you are this desperate? An OA goalie who is imo overrated and with better talent last year in front of him managed .889%, good for 11th in the league. With the current team, we’ll be lucky to get around, at best, similar numbers. But honestly, wouldn’t surprise me to see him be closer to .880-.885. He’s not that special and yet that’s what we pay for him? That’s the plan? Good thing we keep drafting goalies in the high 2/3 rounds just to not ever develop a single one. Good work, Shane. Good work DB with hiring the right staff to develop goalies. I’m not telling you they didn’t need to fix the goalie spot but I think how they did it, the price they paid and who they got, that’s the issue.

Such a smelly trade. This franchise is a dumpster fire. Embarrassing

 

[Mata]

So let me get this straight...

We give up a 3rd, 4th, and a 6th in a player for player trade, an OA who will be here one season.

Sarnia then turns Lalonde around and ships him to Saginaw with a 7th rounder for a 5th round pick...

WTF is DB thinking...

At face value we got HOSED

 

[Guy In Burlington]

You don't think it was a steep price to pay for an OA and a team that is likely not close to a cup run?

I mean, I'm not saying I wanted Lalonde gone...I just wish his trending had continued upwards from his first season here.

As another poster stated, maybe it's so the team itself doesn't cave from poor results which makes a little more sense.

I tend to be glass half full, I guess. Maybe I shouldn’t be, because you obviously know about this team and Brown than I do. And I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on Gaudreau.

But just for a second, look at the trade this way:

1) Lalonde is not going to be in the OHL next year. This year, he needed out and I imagine the coach/GM had seen enough/wanted to give him a fresh start.

2) The playoffs were a goal even with Lalonde. They get Gaudreau not to make the playoffs, but to a) let Gibbons ease in with 20-25 games and b) have Gaudreau maybe steal a round and get the team some playoff experience heading into Terrance/Molnar’s last years, Spence and Schaefer’s draft years.

3) Gibbons takes over as the #1 in 24-25 with a decent team in front of him.

Steep price to pay? Maybe. But again, glass half full.

 

[onetimeshot]

Wow.

 

[Mata]

I tend to be glass half full, I guess. Maybe I shouldn’t be, because you obviously know about this team and Brown than I do. And I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on Gaudreau.

But just for a second, look at the trade this way:

1) Lalonde is not going to be in the OHL next year. This year, he needed out and I imagine the coach/GM had seen enough/wanted to give him a fresh start.

2) The playoffs were a goal even with Lalonde. They get Gaudreau not to make the playoffs, but to a) let Gibbons ease in with 20-25 games and b) have Gaudreau maybe steal a round and get the team some playoff experience heading into Terrance/Molnar’s last years, Spence and Schaefer’s draft years.

3) Gibbons takes over as the #1 in 24-25 with a decent team in front of him.

Steep price to pay? Maybe. But again, glass half full.

You make very fair and valid points that are not clouded by the errors of DB over the past 6 or 7 seasons. Sometimes a fresh perspective is good, especially when Erie fans are used to getting hosed on trades.

Time will tell this story, we are hoping for the best but I think most Erie fans will agree, until Dave Brown strings together multiple good trades, cautiously optimistic is probably the ceiling for our outlook at best lol!

 

[HockeyPops]

The impetus for the trade might also have come from Columbus

 

[Savard18]

Such an unbelievable trade. Yet again, REAL assets for a rental player, for a short term goal of just making the playoffs? I mean this is once again straight negligence by DB. I cannot comprehend how JW is still letting this guy lead the org and make these moves. I’m not telling you Gaudreau sucks but the guy had a .889% last year on a team that won 41 games. He’s never been over .891 in his career.

Serious question.. does Dave just look across the league and see a player was NHL drafted and that’s his scouting? That’s all he does? Overpaid for Golden, overpaid for Gilmartin, and now imo he overpaid for Gaudreau. It’s literally 4 games into the season and you are this desperate? An OA goalie who is imo overrated and with better talent last year in front of him managed .889%, good for 11th in the league. With the current team, we’ll be lucky to get around, at best, similar numbers. But honestly, wouldn’t surprise me to see him be closer to .880-.885. He’s not that special and yet that’s what we pay for him? That’s the plan? Good thing we keep drafting goalies in the high 2/3 rounds just to not ever develop a single one. Good work, Shane. Good work DB with hiring the right staff to develop goalies. I’m not telling you they didn’t need to fix the goalie spot but I think how they did it, the price they paid and who they got, that’s the issue.

Such a smelly trade. This franchise is a dumpster fire. Embarrassing

That. Is an insane price to pay for an OA goalie that has the career (in)consistency Gaudreau has. If Benny isn’t consistently lights out for Erie, DB HAS to be fired right? I mean, what team was he bidding against to land Gaudreau? He just offered up all those picks? That would be pricey if the Otters were gunning for a title. I figured you guys would slide into a 5-6-7 spot this year and be back on track to respectability. That may still happen but that trade would scare me and it’s gonna be a fair bit more difficult without those assets.

 

[OttersFan]

Such an unbelievable trade. Yet again, REAL assets for a rental player, for a short term goal of just making the playoffs? I mean this is once again straight negligence by DB. I cannot comprehend how JW is still letting this guy lead the org and make these moves. I’m not telling you Gaudreau sucks but the guy had a .889% last year on a team that won 41 games. He’s never been over .891 in his career.

Serious question.. does Dave just look across the league and see a player was NHL drafted and that’s his scouting? That’s all he does? Overpaid for Golden, overpaid for Gilmartin, and now imo he overpaid for Gaudreau. It’s literally 4 games into the season and you are this desperate? An OA goalie who is imo overrated and with better talent last year in front of him managed .889%, good for 11th in the league. With the current team, we’ll be lucky to get around, at best, similar numbers. But honestly, wouldn’t surprise me to see him be closer to .880-.885. He’s not that special and yet that’s what we pay for him? That’s the plan? Good thing we keep drafting goalies in the high 2/3 rounds just to not ever develop a single one. Good work, Shane. Good work DB with hiring the right staff to develop goalies. I’m not telling you they didn’t need to fix the goalie spot but I think how they did it, the price they paid and who they got, that’s the issue.

Such a smelly trade. This franchise is a dumpster fire. Embarrassing

Shane Clifford was fired, but like Jamie, it was put under the hush hush.

 

[OttersFan]

That. Is an insane price to pay for an OA goalie that has the career (in)consistency Gaudreau has. If Benny isn’t consistently lights out for Erie, DB HAS to be fired right? I mean, what team was he bidding against to land Gaudreau? He just offered up all those picks? That would be pricey if the Otters were gunning for a title. I figured you guys would slide into a 5-6-7 spot this year and be back on track to respectability. That may still happen but that trade would scare me and it’s gonna be a fair bit more difficult without those assets.

We already don’t have any assets and got fleeced in this deal. No way was Lalonde worth that many picks.

I have been saying this for the longest time: Dave Brown has to go and it will be within the next two-three weeks.

They’re in panic mode. People have quit because they’re tired of Dave Brown.

 

[NOA]

Shane Clifford was fired, but like Jamie, it was put under the hush hush.

So do they just not have a goalie coach at all?

The impetus for the trade might also have come from Columbus

That doesn’t necessarily excuse the price for Gaudreau. Like I said, I don’t dispute they needed a trade. Lalonde has been horrible. But doesn’t mean that’s the move and price you have to pay under the current team’s circumstances

 

[onetimeshot]

So do they just not have a goalie coach at all?


That doesn’t necessarily excuse the price for Gaudreau. Like I said, I don’t dispute they needed a trade. Lalonde has been horrible. But doesn’t mean that’s the move and price you have to pay under the current team’s circumstances

Adrian Volpe (A Dave Brown pick Drafted 2006, 15 #283 overall by Mississauga IceDogs in the OHL Priority Selection, Niagara 07-08 short stint) is the goaltending consultant.

 

[OttersFan]

So do they just not have a goalie coach at all?


That doesn’t necessarily excuse the price for Gaudreau. Like I said, I don’t dispute they needed a trade. Lalonde has been horrible. But doesn’t mean that’s the move and price you have to pay under the current team’s circumstances

I’m not sure if they hired someone. On the website it says their goaltending consultant is Adrian Volpe. I’ve never heard of him.

On the website it also says we only have 5 scouts. The OHL allows players all the way to Florida. Where’s the scout further southern than PA/NJ? We don’t have a scout listed for western Ontario/Michigan or Northern Ontario.

We can talk about firing Dave Brown, but his son Devin is the codirector of scouting and should get canned too.

 

[NOA]

That. Is an insane price to pay for an OA goalie that has the career (in)consistency Gaudreau has. If Benny isn’t consistently lights out for Erie, DB HAS to be fired right? I mean, what team was he bidding against to land Gaudreau? He just offered up all those picks? That would be pricey if the Otters were gunning for a title. I figured you guys would slide into a 5-6-7 spot this year and be back on track to respectability. That may still happen but that trade would scare me and it’s gonna be a fair bit more difficult without those assets.

DB is always overpaying. Has no idea how to set or dictate the market. He’s also got zero patience as evidenced by this move just 4 games into the year. Dude must be feeling the fire on his seat because he’s panicking.

All this for a team to probably be a 8-9 seed and potentially miss the playoffs yet again

 

[OttersFan]

Adrian Volpe (A Dave Brown pick Drafted 2006, 15 #283 overall by Mississauga IceDogs in the OHL Priority Selection, Niagara 07-08 short stint) is the goaltending consultant.

His numbers aren’t very good and would explain the poor quality we see on the ice.

 

[NOA]

His numbers aren’t very good and would explain the poor quality we see on the ice.

to be fair, and I don’t pretend to know this consultant or their talents or lack thereof, looking at someone’s stats as a player is not at all indicative of what they can be as a coach. There are thousands of examples across all sports with coaches who either never played or played at low levels or with lower talent and yet had great success as a coach. I’m not going to write him off because of that or blame him for anything off that

 

[OttersFan]

to be fair, and I don’t pretend to know this consultant or their talents or lack thereof, looking at someone’s stats as a player is not at all indicative of what they can be as a coach. There are thousands of examples across all sports with coaches who either never played or played at low levels or with lower talent and yet had great success as a coach. I’m not going to write him off because of that or blame him for anything off that

Fair, and maybe he was JUST hired this season full time. He was the assistant previously.

We’ve had mediocre goaltending for the last 10 years. We just haven’t consistently developed anyone. It’s not on Volpe, but I hope we can develop Gibbons. He has the size, just lacks the experience as expected.

It wasn’t fair of me to make that assumption of Volpe.

 

[Savard18]

DB is always overpaying. Has no idea how to set or dictate the market. He’s also got zero patience as evidenced by this move just 4 games into the year. Dude must be feeling the fire on his seat because he’s panicking.

All this for a team to probably be a 8-9 seed and potentially miss the playoffs yet again

I like your guy’s roster this year. I agree with your thinking on Misiak but it’s a win if they trade him and a small win for attendance/team confidence/expierience if they keep him all year. I figured you guys (who are theoretically better now) could push for as good as a 5-6 seed without spending major assets. Find goaltending. Sell a piece or two etc. This? This though just makes no sense. Wasted assets for a season where your trending up but not going for it. Flint has been doing the same type of stuff the last couple years and I’ve been screaming “Follow the Hamilton model!!! Don’t follow the Erie model!!!” Hopefully both can re-route the ship this year and get back on track but man….that’s not a good sign.

 

[Buttsy]

At face value we got HOSED

Ear, nose, hand or even an Ankle you for sure got HOSED.

 

[NOA]

I like your guy’s roster this year. I agree with your thinking on Misiak but it’s a win if they trade him and a small win for attendance/team confidence/expierience if they keep him all year. I figured you guys (who are theoretically better now) could push for as good as a 5-6 seed without spending major assets. Find goaltending. Sell a piece or two etc. This? This though just makes no sense. Wasted assets for a season where your trending up but not going for it. Flint has been doing the same type of stuff the last couple years and I’ve been screaming “Follow the Hamilton model!!! Don’t follow the Erie model!!!” Hopefully both can re-route the ship this year and get back on track but man….that’s not a good sign.

You make some good points here and I mostly agree. RE: Misiak - I just don’t think it’s likely they trade him unless they are a 9/10 seed, in which case you sort of wonder what his value is in that context. If their a 7/8 seed, they aren’t moving him because the goal is playoffs. Anything better and certainly they aren’t moving him. Really the issue I have with that pick was the short term, shortsightedness by DB. Again, there is no plan. There is no patience. You would think after Schaefer pick and Spence in year 2, they then pick a young import to pair with those guys and start building towards something. But.. I’ll digress because I know I’ve exhausted my thoughts on that topic many of times. Point really is, DB has no patience, no plan. Every single move is for the short term despite the team not even making the playoffs for 6 years. It’s like every year is their last year on earth, their last year in the league. They have continued to use real assets to be “buyers” and they have nothing to show for it. This despite coming out of a 4 year run where they burned their assets to the ground. Almost any other team in that situation would sell, sell, sell for 2-3 years and take the loss upfront but build long term. Nope, not DB - he’s managed to use real assets on mediocre players like Golden, Gritz, MacDougall, etc. It’s beyond frustrating. There’s been no long term planning, whether that be with their trades, coaching hires, drafts, etc. For example, they bring in a 67 year old coach from “retirement,” which is a short term move. It’s hard to stomach because this city, these fans, we deserve so much more. Yeah, it could be worse but you know what, 6 years without a single playoff game and no long term plan - that’s pretty depressing. Even in a world where they make the playoffs this year, they are losing key pieces next year and they invested real assets on this team.. so what, back to square one next year? I don’t see them building towards anything

 

[Guy In Burlington]

I’m not sure if they hired someone. On the website it says their goaltending consultant is Adrian Volpe. I’ve never heard of him.

On the website it also says we only have 5 scouts. The OHL allows players all the way to Florida. Where’s the scout further southern than PA/NJ? We don’t have a scout listed for western Ontario/Michigan or Northern Ontario.

We can talk about firing Dave Brown, but his son Devin is the codirector of scouting and should get canned too.

Minor point of clarification, Devin Brown is not Dave Brown’s son. They’re brothers.

 

[OttersFan]

Minor point of clarification, Devin Brown is not Dave Brown’s son. They’re brothers.

Really? Maybe I had the wrong guy pinned. I know his son is always at the rink and walks up to the booth with Dave every home game.

Regardless the relation, my comment still stands. Nothing good usually comes when you hire your family members.

 

[Guy In Burlington]

Really? Maybe I had the wrong guy pinned. I know his son is always at the rink and walks up to the booth with Dave every home game.

Regardless the relation, my comment still stands. Nothing good usually comes when you hire your family members.

Yes, I went to the same high school and I’m friends with the middle brother (who has no involvement with the team).

 

[OttersFan]

Yes, I went to the same high school and I’m friends with the middle brother (who has no involvement with the team).

Thanks for the insight! I’m glad you clarified! I was wrong.