Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[Stewie Griffin]

Who cares about primary/secondary assists. There's no data that can fairly say which pass (primary or secondary) helped set up the goal more. No crap Hutson is going to have more secondary assists...his position plays further back on the ice.

 

[Wats]

Who cares about primary/secondary assists. There's no data that can fairly say which pass (primary or secondary) helped set up the goal more. No crap Hutson is going to have more secondary assists...his position plays further back on the ice.

Well considering he only had 4 goals, 0.36 primary points/ game is really good lol.

 

[Rubi]

Primary assists vs secondary assists has to be the dumbest argument in this thread.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Funny all the talk about Hutson's seconday assists, when there's no mention he's also 10th among all dmen for primary assists, as a rookie.

He's 9th in points, 10th in primary assists. It's more about him scoring less, and compensating this shortcoming by excelling at transition and creating offense from there, which necessarily entails more A2s.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Primary assists vs secondary assists has to be the dumbest argument in this thread.

In this thread, yeah. I think it should be more a consideration for forwards than dmen. Half of Bobby Orr's 100 assists season were secondaries. Many other examples like this for dmen, but for forwards, a high % of secondaries might be a sign of leeching.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Primary assists vs secondary assists has to be the dumbest argument in this thread.

The people pissed that a Habs player is doing so well are trying to do everything they can to discredit Hutson. It is kind of pathetic actually.

Next thing they will use against him is "well his style of play wont fit the playoffs hes only going to do well in the regular season"

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

The people pissed that a Habs player is doing so well are trying to do everything they can to discredit Hutson. It is kind of pathetic actually.

Next thing they will use against him is "well his style of play wont fit the playoffs hes only going to do well in the regular season"

That’s not next thing, they’re already doing it and it’s ridiculous. And once Hutson plays In the playoffs it will be that he can’t win a cup. The goal posts will just keep getting moved

 

[ole ole]

Primary assists vs secondary assists has to be the dumbest argument in this thread.

It's all the haters have left. Hutson is proving them all wrong and now they are trying to throw anything against the wall in hopes that something will stick. Talk about being green.

 

[ViD]

Matvei first to 20

 

[Gravity]

FYI, Hutson has been playing with Struble (7D) on his off-side at least since the 4 nations break if not longer. It makes what he's doing even more impressive.

He's a lot better and more skillful as a LD (his natural position).

 

[Summer Rose]

That’s not next thing, they’re already doing it and it’s ridiculous. And once Hutson plays In the playoffs it will be that he can’t win a cup. The goal posts will just keep getting moved

The kid is already a great player and I agree how silly it is. Can’t we all just get along?

 

[Bouboumaster]

Another point for Hutson

 

[JustAHabFan]

Another point for Hutson

What a rush by Hutson and a beautiful pass to Armia. At least the assist is primary.

 

[Doom Bot]

Who cares about primary/secondary assists. There's no data that can fairly say which pass (primary or secondary) helped set up the goal more. No crap Hutson is going to have more secondary assists...his position plays further back on the ice.

Seriously silly that we've reached this part of the discussion. When the goal posts have moved this far I think it's run its course.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Seriously silly that we've reached this part of the discussion. When the goal posts have moved this far I think it's run its course.

But the thread need to remain open because this is an amazing race for the Calder.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Hutson is just amazing. Drives the offense with creativity and hockey smarts. He thinks the game differently. Two steps ahead.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Seriously silly that we've reached this part of the discussion. When the goal posts have moved this far I think it's run its course.

I agree it's ridiculous. However this is one of the best calder races in years. With a 1st overall pick like Celebrini and a habs rookie like Hutson a discussion like this was expected. It'll go to the wire.

 

[Kshahdoo]

After the break:

Michkov 4+6, +5 in 6 games
Celebrini 2+3, -2 in 6 games. And he's 0+0, -2 vs Colorado at the end of the 2nd.

 

[Gravity]

After the break:

Michkov 4+6, +5 in 6 games
Celebrini 2+3, -2 in 6 games. And he's 0+0, -2 vs Colorado at the end of the 2nd.

Cherry picking stats after the break is inconsequential. Celebrini has consistently been the better player over the course of the season. IMO, it's a two horse race and Michkov ain't the second horse.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Cherry picking stats after the break is inconsequential. Celebrini has consistently been the better player over the course of the season. IMO, it's a two horse race and Michkov ain't the second horse.

Yeah, I doubt Michkov will win it (still, some bad games for Celebrini and some good ones for Michkov and everything will change), but I mean a bigger picture. It's still their first season and there will be a lot more in the future.

 

[OverTheLine]

A nice goal for Celebrini in a rout for Colorado. This rout by the Avalanche is a good explanation for why some Habs and Flyers fans have asked how Celebrini can be good defensively with his +/-, which is simple: the Sharks are icing one of the worst defenses the modern NHL has seen, which is getting worse by the day as they ship off every decent goaltender on the roster, Walman, and possibly Ferraro as well. Keeping goals out of the back of the net is a team effort and the center is only one piece of that puzzle.

The truth is Chicago and San Jose are a different level of basement-dwelling. The fact that Celebrini looks as good and produces as much has he does on a team completely incapable of breaking out of its own zone because of its all-time bad defense is simply a testament to his talent.

 

[Kshahdoo]

A nice goal for Celebrini in a rout for Colorado. This rout by the Avalanche is a good explanation for why some Habs and Flyers fans have asked how Celebrini can be good defensively with his +/-, which is simple: the Sharks are icing one of the worst defenses the modern NHL has seen, which is getting worse by the day as they ship off every decent goaltender on the roster, Walman, and possibly Ferraro as well. Keeping goals out of the back of the net is a team effort and the center is only one piece of that puzzle.

The truth is Chicago and San Jose are a different level of basement-dwelling. The fact that Celebrini looks as good and produces as much has he does on a team completely incapable of breaking out of its own zone because of its all-time bad defense is simply a testament to his talent.

It's not just bad defense and goaltending. Flyers' goaltending is one of the worst in the league, defense is better than Sharks' but not much. It's different systems. Flyers play tight defensive system which doesn't do a young rookie offensive winger any favors.

Sharks play more offensive system, which helps Celebrini to score but doesn't help the team to get more points. And they have way more offensive talents than Flyers.

 

[wetcoast]

After the break:

Michkov 4+6, +5 in 6 games
Celebrini 2+3, -2 in 6 games. And he's 0+0, -2 vs Colorado at the end of the 2nd.

People only stat watching are going to be disappointed when the Calder voting results come in.

 

[OverTheLine]

It's not just bad defense and goaltending. Flyers' goaltending is one of the worst in the league, defense is better than Sharks' but not much. It's different systems. Flyers play tight defensive system which doesn't do a young rookie offensive winger any favors.

Sharks play more offensive system, which helps Celebrini to score but doesn't help the team to get more points. And they have way more offensive talents than Flyers.

I really appreciate your point about systems, which is often overlooked in discussions about individual awards, but you’re either wildly overstating the sharks or understating the flyers. The Sharks are a runaway train for last place, with only the Blackhawk’s for company in their lonely tier of awful.

If what you’re saying is true (that the flyers have worse goaltending, slightly better defense, and much worse offense) then they should be not only at the bottom of the standings but they should be one of the worst teams in recent memory. They obviously are not, so something in the math doesn’t check out.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I really appreciate your point about systems, which is often overlooked in discussions about individual awards, but you’re either wildly overstating the sharks or understating the flyers. The Sharks are a runaway train for last place, with only the Blackhawk’s for company in their lonely tier of awful.

If what you’re saying is true (that the flyers have worse goaltending, slightly better defense, and much worse offense) then they should be not only at the bottom of the standings but they should be one of the worst teams in recent memory. They obviously are not, so something in the math doesn’t check out.

It's what good coaching does. Flyers fans mostly hate Torts, and I'm not his biggest fan either and think he's terrible for Michkov. But he still can coach and make teams better than they actually are. As far as I understand, the Sharks coaching is the opposite to Torts...