Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[Pinkfloyd]

Thank you, guy who thinks all of his opinions are facts

You interpreting it as such is a you problem. I never said my opinions were facts like you've asserted others to do.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Sharks say hello with Celebrini, Smith and Askarov. And in the long run, you take that Sharks threesome every day of the week.

This is all irrelevant but the crazy part is the Habs have 7 or 8 very good players on the team without those 3 and 2 of the best players outside of the NHL as well as 2 or 3 good players in the AHL. Sharks have very little besides those 3.

You're only fooling yourself if you think the team around them doesn't matter and yes, Celebrini will largely because Hutson isn't winning the scoring race at the end of the day if Celebrini stays healthy.

As you should be. I don't think even Habs fans are convinced that Hutson will keep this up. He's not making that great of an impact offensively. He's doing very well and getting some increased shooting percentages from guys he is setting up. It could last the whole year. It probably won't.

Hutson is improving all the time. He has been snake bit scoring goals but once he starts to shoot more even the goals will start to come.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is all irrelevant but the crazy part is the Habs have 7 or 8 very good players on the team without those 3 and 2 of the best players outside of the NHL. Sharks have very little besides those 3.

The Sharks are at a much different stage of the rebuild than the Canadiens. The Habs should be further along with more talent.

Hutson is improving all the time. He has been snake bit scoring goals but once he starts to shoot more even the goals will start to come.

As is Celebrini but Celebrini is making more plays with the puck in an average game than Hutson but Hutson will get more opportunities because he has better players around him. That's why they're able to win a lot more games this year than even last year.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

If you think this is the "only" reason this is even up for debate than I dunno what to tell you. Hutson as of now, just on his play alone has earned the right to argue and lay claim to the rookie of the year. (despite Celebrini being the favourite at this point)

Only habs fans think this tho…. Seems like all other fans think it’s pretty comfortably celebrini.

 

[JIMVINNY]

The Sharks are at a much different stage of the rebuild than the Canadiens. The Habs should be further along with more talent.


As is Celebrini but Celebrini is making more plays with the puck in an average game than Hutson but Hutson will get more opportunities because he has better players around him. That's why they're able to win a lot more games this year than even last year.

What makes the Canadians further along in their rebuild? The year Montreal finished dead last, the Sharks finished with 77 points and decided to blow it up. Montreal had a historically bad year injury wise, otherwise they would have been similarly situated in the standings. At most, the Habs are a year ahead, but that's only due to a record-setting year of injuries. San Jose already has the best player either team has acquired during their respective rebuilds so it's pretty disingenuous to say Montreal is further ahead. Montreal is simply doing a better job of being competitive so early in a rebuild, and Huston has a lot to do with that. Why isn't Celebrini able to lift his team like Huston is?

As for more plays with the puck, Huston is top 10 among defenseman in several offensive metrics, as a rookie. He's the main driver on the team now. Huston will get more opportunities because he's CREATING them. THAT'S why they're able to win more games this year than even last year.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What makes the Canadians further along in their rebuild? The year Montreal finished dead last, the Sharks finished with 77 points and decided to blow it up. Montreal had a historically bad year injury wise, otherwise they would have been similarly situated in the standings. At most, the Habs are a year ahead, but that's only due to a record-setting year of injuries. San Jose already has the best player either team has acquired during their respective rebuilds so it's pretty disingenuous to say Montreal is further ahead. Montreal is simply doing a better job of being competitive so early in a rebuild, and Huston has a lot to do with that. Why isn't Celebrini able to lift his team like Huston is?

As for more plays with the puck, Huston is top 10 among defenseman in several offensive metrics, as a rookie. He's the main driver on the team now. Huston will get more opportunities because he's CREATING them. THAT'S why they're able to win more games this year than even last year.

Did they start the rebuild before basically 2024? Then they should be ahead. The thing with rebuilds is that they're not all equal in terms of talent taken away nor talent already in the fold for said rebuild. Montreal did not have to go to the extreme lengths the Sharks did to tear down their team. They already had a larger base of young talent during their post-playoff runs than the Sharks. You still can't even honestly acknowledge the talent gap on the teams to be treated like a serious person in this debate.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Only habs fans think this tho…. Seems like all other fans think it’s pretty comfortably celebrini.

He got a third of the first place votes in the NHL.com halfway Calder voting, seems like they must have a disproportionate number of Habs fans.

Huston is also closing any perceived gap, because he won NHL rookie of the month in December and has put 4 points in 3 games while playing 25 minutes a night in January in far.

 

[Canadienna]

The only crazy take right now with the Calder is that anyone is a lock.

There's three-four great candidates right now with half the season to go.

 

[Bee Holder]

As a Habs fan, I never thought I'd see this much bad blood between hfSharks posters and hfHabs posters on here, as these 2 franchises' rivalry in about every aspect must be at the bottom of the rivalry lists, but it's enjoyable to read! I hope the best for both Celebrini and Hutson to have an engaging Calder race for the rest of the season and I personally hope both fanbases are quite happy with their guy for a long time! That being said, may the best (Dman) win!

 

[HabbyGuy]

Only habs fans think this tho…. Seems like all other fans think it’s pretty comfortably celebrini.

What is it you have a problem with? I personally gave your guy the nod. The problem I (as a hab fan) is having is your assertion the only reason this is a conversation is because Macklin missed some games.

Hutson deserves every consideration for this award on his merit alone, period. If you can't acknowledge that, that's on you.

 

[JIMVINNY]

Did they start the rebuild before basically 2024? Then they should be ahead. The thing with rebuilds is that they're not all equal in terms of talent taken away nor talent already in the fold for said rebuild. Montreal did not have to go to the extreme lengths the Sharks did to tear down their team. They already had a larger base of young talent during their post-playoff runs than the Sharks. You still can't even honestly acknowledge the talent gap on the teams to be treated like a serious person in this debate.

Lol. San Jose was trading away players for picks and prospects at the trade deadline in 2022, the same year Montreal started their rebuild. Yes, Montreal had a few more keepers than San Jose, but that doesn't mean the Sharks didn't start their rebuild 3 years ago, it just means Montreal has been able to exit earlier, due to significant contributions from players like Hutson. This "omg the Sharks are so bad" shtick you're trying to use to pump Celebrini's tires is hilarious. The kid is really good, no question. But Hutson has started outperforming him relative to their peers, and if the trends continue, Hutson will win, no matter how badly you want it for Celebrini.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Lol. San Jose was trading away players for picks and prospects at the trade deadline in 2022, the same year Montreal started their rebuild. Yes, Montreal had a few more keepers than San Jose, but that doesn't mean the Sharks didn't start their rebuild 3 years ago, it just means Montreal has been able to exit earlier, due to significant contributions from players like Hutson. This "omg the Sharks are so bad" shtick you're trying to use to pump Celebrini's tires is hilarious. The kid is really good, no question. But Hutson has started outperforming him relative to their peers, and if the trends continue, Hutson will win, no matter how badly you want Celebrini to win it.

Trading expiring contracts for picks is not when a team starts a rebuild. On top of that, not every team starts at the same point with rebuilds. Nobody is going to take you seriously trying to argue the Sharks started their rebuild before Grier was hired. That's not what was happening in San Jose at that point. Their rebuild started on draft day 2022 with the 11th overall pick rather than the 1st overall pick on Grier's 2nd day with a group of front office personnel that weren't necessarily his. The cap sheet/contract situation between the two teams were very different. Montreal's wasn't great then either but the Sharks guys had more term, older, and more overpaid with more guys than Montreal. That's a vast difference in starting position. You can choose to acknowledge that affects the timeline or not.

It's no schtick either. It's the truth. And that is pretty easy to show given how bad the Sharks were last year and how bad they are this year. Saying Hutson has started outperforming Celebrini relative to his peers is based on what exactly? You have one trend that you're banking on continuing to make your case and even that scenario has Hutson outproduce Celebrini by one point with twelve more games played. Out of the two, it's pretty clear to anyone watching who plays the more sustainable offensive game...with less talent.

 

[JIMVINNY]

Trading expiring contracts for picks is not when a team starts a rebuild. On top of that, not every team starts at the same point with rebuilds. Nobody is going to take you seriously trying to argue the Sharks started their rebuild before Grier was hired. That's not what was happening in San Jose at that point. Their rebuild started on draft day 2022 with the 11th overall pick rather than the 1st overall pick on Grier's 2nd day with a group of front office personnel that weren't necessarily his. The cap sheet/contract situation between the two teams were very different. Montreal's wasn't great then either but the Sharks guys had more term, older, and more overpaid with more guys than Montreal. That's a vast difference in starting position. You can choose to acknowledge that affects the timeline or not.

It's no schtick either. It's the truth. And that is pretty easy to show given how bad the Sharks were last year and how bad they are this year. Saying Hutson has started outperforming Celebrini relative to his peers is based on what exactly? You have one trend that you're banking on continuing to make your case and even that scenario has Hutson outproduce Celebrini by one point with twelve more games played. Out of the two, it's pretty clear to anyone watching who plays the more sustainable offensive game...with less talent.

You don't get to reset the date of the rebuild because you don't like how it was going the first time around. Are you actually trying to say that drafting Will Smith at 4th overall isn't part of your rebuild? GTFO. The only pick Montreal had higher than that was Slafkovsky, and while he might end up being a good player, he was part of an extremely weak draft class, and wouldn't have been gone top 3 in most drafts. The Sharks may not have had the same quality of player coming into their rebuild, but they've received far better draft selection and quality than what Montreal has had access to during their own rebuild. Will Smith alone had higher draft pedigree than anyone on the Habs roster save Laine, and he's hardly played.

I was prepared to have a good-faith discussion with you about this, but it's clear you aren't capable of being objective about your team. Come back when you're prepared to be honest.

 

[Fraser28]

It’s hard to believe how much Michkov has fallen off over the last 12 games. 0 points in his last 5 games; 2 points in his last 12 games.

 

[jetsforever]

It’s hard to believe how much Michkov has fallen off over the last 12 games. 0 points in his last 5 games; 2 points in his last 12 games.

Yeah I was going to ask - is he playing worse or just really unlucky? Pointless in 12 of the past 13 games

 

[Hanji]

It’s hard to believe how much Michkov has fallen off over the last 12 games. 0 points in his last 5 games; 2 points in his last 12 games.

From my observation, a few things:

1. He appears to have hit a wall physically. Some games it looks like he just doesnt have it.
2. But even when he’s ‘on’, he’s getting Tortarella-ed and is playing much more scared and tentatively than he was earlier.
3. Just plain bad luck.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You don't get to reset the date of the rebuild because you don't like how it was going the first time around. Are you actually trying to say that drafting Will Smith at 4th overall isn't part of your rebuild? GTFO. The only pick Montreal had higher than that was Slafkovsky, and while he might end up being a good player, he was part of an extremely weak draft class, and wouldn't have been gone top 3 in most drafts. The Sharks may not have had the same quality of player coming into their rebuild, but they've received far better draft selection and quality than what Montreal has had access to during their own rebuild. Will Smith alone had higher draft pedigree than anyone on the Habs roster save Laine, and he's hardly played.

I was prepared to have a good-faith discussion with you about this, but it's clear you aren't capable of being objective about your team. Come back when you're prepared to be honest.

You don't get to set the date of the rebuild either. Nobody does. The point of saying 2024 was only that this was the first year that young drafted players were prioritized rather than a spot being filled by a vet or a cap dump. The Habs had a 1st and two 5th overalls the past three years. The Sharks had an 11th that turned into 27th, a 4th, and a 1st. Those are comparable draft selection and quality areas. I don't agree with Smith being of a higher pedigree than Slafkovsky as a 1OA.

The last bit is pretty clear projection on your part and kind of you admitting you haven't been good-faith. We both know the Habs were in a position to rebuild a team for various reasons and they were better than the Sharks in the past two seasons in part because of that head start. And them being a better team is influencing the rookies performances.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

It’s hard to believe how much Michkov has fallen off over the last 12 games. 0 points in his last 5 games; 2 points in his last 12 games.

Torts has over coached him ever since the attempted Michigan...all the creativity has been sucked out of him.

 

[coooldude]

What is it you have a problem with? I personally gave your guy the nod. The problem I (as a hab fan) is having is your assertion the only reason this is a conversation is because Macklin missed some games.

Hutson deserves every consideration for this award on his merit alone, period. If you can't acknowledge that, that's on you.

The poster you quoted is a ducks fan, so absolutely macklin is not "his guy."

 

[Star Platinum]

Doesn't matter. If they both stay healthy and maintain the pace they've demonstrated for the last 20 games, Hutson wins the scoring race.

The difference between the two since December comes down to Hutson having an excellent game on January 6, scoring 4 points. In my view, both guys have different advantages that work in their favor. Hutson plays with a more talented team with a better power play, so he's probably going to end the year with more assists. Celebrini being a forward is going to have better opportunities to score his own goals.

My opinion is that defensemen are held to an unfair standard when it comes to awards for skaters and that there is a bias towards forwards generally speaking for the Calder. I think the two things that are impressing voters at this point about Celebrini are that he's having this season at a very young age and that he's competing well fighting for pucks and in the defensive zone for the most part (end of last game a notable exception) and not being overwhelmed physically. These are areas that nearly all young players struggle with, but he is holding his own. As I'm not a Montreal fan, I can't attest to how well Hutson is doing in those areas, but I also don't really think that it matters that much to voters. It'll mostly come down to whether one of the top rookies significantly outscores the other and that if it's close at all, it'll probably go to Celebrini due to being the top pick and general bias in favor of forwards.

Forecasting how this will all end three months from now is a fool's errand as far as I'm concerned when injury to any of the top guys is likely to be the biggest determining factor in who gets enough games to boost their scoring totals, but I recognize that this thread is not a real discussion but just an opportunity for fanbases to troll each other.