Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[Pinkfloyd]

You guys are too funny

So are you. Thinking Hutson actually has a chance in this even if he does what you hope. No, he only has a chance if Celebrini gets injured again.

Keep your hope up. If the Habs made the playoff and Hutson scored 60+ points and the Sharks finish bottom 3 then Celebrini will for sure say goodbye to the Calder.

And when Celebrini runs away with the Calder because he's clearly the best rookie in this class, you can enjoy your 60+ point playoff appearance which is more important anyway.

 

[JIMVINNY]

Considering the actual gap between the Sharks and Canadiens last year was about 30 points in the standings, I would say that the gap was quite large. That's 15 wins of a difference. There's no reason to pretend that's not a sizable gap.

And I disagree as it relates to the trends. Even if Montreal makes the playoffs and Hutson ends up with 62 points, he's not winning it over Celebrini if he stays healthy the rest of the way. There's a pretty clear difference between the two as it relates to the impact on the game overall and it's nowhere close to being in Hutson's favor, I'm sorry.

I must have missed the part where the 2025 calder was being awarded based on last season's results. My bad.

If the recent trends continue (last 20 games, Hutson's point pace and the Habs points %), Hutson isn't going to finish at 62 points, he'll be over 70, and I'M sorry, but there no way a last-placed rookie #1 center is getting the Calder over a playoff-bound rookie #1 dman who won the rookie scoring race. You're utterly delusional if you think so.

 

[JustAHabFan]

So are you. Thinking Hutson actually has a chance in this even if he does what you hope. No, he only has a chance if Celebrini gets injured again.

And when Celebrini runs away with the Calder because he's clearly the best rookie in this class, you can enjoy your 60+ point playoff appearance which is more important anyway.

If Hutson helped the Habs made the playoff and lost the Calder I still will be very very happy. A late 2nd round pick challenged and made the 1st overall pick sweating for the Calder? I will be happy with that. Hughes didn't win the Calder but still turned out to be a franchise defenseman.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I must have missed the part where the 2025 calder was being awarded based on last season's results. My bad.

If the recent trends continue (last 20 games, Hutson's point pace and the Habs points %), Hutson isn't going to finish at 62 points, he'll be over 70, and I'M sorry, but there no way a last-placed rookie #1 center is getting the Calder over a playoff-bound rookie #1 dman who won the rookie scoring race. You're utterly delusional if you think so.

You're only fooling yourself if you think the team around them doesn't matter and yes, Celebrini will largely because Hutson isn't winning the scoring race at the end of the day if Celebrini stays healthy.

If Hutson helped the Habs made the playoff and lost the Calder I still will be very very happy. A late 2nd round pick challenged and made the 1st overall pick sweating for the Calder? I will be happy with that. Hughes didn't win the Calder but still turned out to be a franchise defenseman.

As you should be. I don't think even Habs fans are convinced that Hutson will keep this up. He's not making that great of an impact offensively. He's doing very well and getting some increased shooting percentages from guys he is setting up. It could last the whole year. It probably won't.

 

[karltonian]

You guys are too funny

There's zero chance Celebrini would have had less than 3 points over those 12 games.

 

[JIMVINNY]

There's zero chance Celebrini would have had less than 3 points over those 12 games.

Doesn't matter. If they both stay healthy and maintain the pace they've demonstrated for the last 20 games, Hutson wins the scoring race.

 

[waitin425]

The fact that Celebrini missed 12 games is relevant to this. It's not relevant to everything, but it absolutely is for this; Hutson is only on this list because of it.

Hutson is on this list. Period. No asterix.

 

[Regal]

I would probably go for Celebrini here, but the idea that the Sharks being bad will help Celebrini doesn’t really hold water. Voters don’t usually favour players on worse teams unless the player on the better team is heavily insulated. With the Canadiens now in the wild card race, that will only benefit Hutson’s case since he’s playing the second most minutes on the team. Yea, Suzuki and Caufield are better than any of Celebrini’s teammates, but it’s not like the Canadiens are scoring far more than the Sharks anyway.

The biggest hurdle for Hutson I think is inherent bias against small offensive dmen, as well as the name recognition of the first overall pick who has acclimated his all around game to the league better than 99% of 18 year olds. Hutson would have to be clearly better than Celebrini or play significantly more games in order to win imo.

 

[JIMVINNY]

You're only fooling yourself if you think the team around them doesn't matter and yes, Celebrini will largely because Hutson isn't winning the scoring race at the end of the day if Celebrini stays healthy.

As you should be. I don't think even Habs fans are convinced that Hutson will keep this up. He's not making that great of an impact offensively. He's doing very well and getting some increased shooting percentages from guys he is setting up. It could last the whole year. It probably won't.

The team around them absolutely matters, but last seasons results do not. If they both stay healthy and maintain the scoring pace they've demonstrated over the last 20 games, Hutson wins it. You can claim he doesn't make an impact, but all that does is demonstrate that you don't watch the games. His pace dropping off is no more or less likely than Celebrini's dropping off. One or both could hit the rookie wall, but we can't guess at that. All we can go on are the trends, and Hutson is trending better than Celebrini. Besides, if Celebrini is so exceptional, he should be able to elevate the Sharks on his own, should he not?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

There's zero chance Celebrini would have had less than 3 points over those 12 games.

Hutson does not need to outscored Celebrini to win the Calder lol he is a defenceman

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The team around them absolutely matters, but last seasons results do not. If they both stay healthy and maintain the scoring pace they've demonstrated over the last 20 games, Hutson wins it. You can claim he doesn't make an impact, but all that does is demonstrate that you don't watch the games. His pace dropping off is no more or less likely than Celebrini's dropping off. One or both could hit the rookie wall, but we can't guess at that. All we can go on are the trends, and Hutson is trending better than Celebrini. Besides, if Celebrini is so exceptional, he should be able to elevate the Sharks on his own, should he not?

Nobody said last season's results matter. The point with last season is to point out the talent gap. There was a clear talent gap between the two teams and there still is. If you can't acknowledge that point, you're not going to be honest about this race.

As for the scoring pace point, the trends the past 20 games actually slightly favor Celebrini. There is no argument about who is more or less likely to drop off as the season wears on. The clear answer is Hutson. Defensemen always have a harder time maintaining production pace than forwards. That is another one of those where you can disagree with that if you want but you're arguing against history.

As for Celebrini being exceptional, he is and he has. That doesn't mean there aren't limits when you're talking about a team's talent gap compared to another. The Sharks are the worst team in the league without Celebrini. The Sharks are the 2nd or 3rd worst team with Celebrini. The Canadiens were the 5th worst team in the league last year clear of the Sharks by 29 points. They're a competitive team for a playoff spot now. They are obviously on different tiers as a team and when you go down the lineup, you can see why. It matters and there's a reason why even with Hutson winning rookie of the month in December that Celebrini still takes it and it's because it's obvious who the best rookie player actually is and it's Celebrini.

Hutson does not need to outscored Celebrini to win the Calder lol he is a defenceman

He won't have a prayer of winning if he doesn't outscore Celebrini given the games played by both guys. If Celebrini outproduces Hutson, and he very likely will, it'll be with 12 less games played on a much worse team. It will matter.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Nobody said last season's results matter. The point with last season is to point out the talent gap. There was a clear talent gap between the two teams and there still is. If you can't acknowledge that point, you're not going to be honest about this race.

As for the scoring pace point, the trends the past 20 games actually slightly favor Celebrini. There is no argument about who is more or less likely to drop off as the season wears on. The clear answer is Hutson. Defensemen always have a harder time maintaining production pace than forwards. That is another one of those where you can disagree with that if you want but you're arguing against history.

As for Celebrini being exceptional, he is and he has. That doesn't mean there aren't limits when you're talking about a team's talent gap compared to another. The Sharks are the worst team in the league without Celebrini. The Sharks are the 2nd or 3rd worst team with Celebrini. The Canadiens were the 5th worst team in the league last year clear of the Sharks by 29 points. They're a competitive team for a playoff spot now. They are obviously on different tiers as a team and when you go down the lineup, you can see why. It matters and there's a reason why even with Hutson winning rookie of the month in December that Celebrini still takes it and it's because it's obvious who the best rookie player actually is and it's Celebrini.


He won't have a prayer of winning if he doesn't outscore Celebrini given the games played by both guys. If Celebrini outproduces Hutson, and he very likely will, it'll be with 12 less games played on a much worse team. It will matter.

It’s pretty clear you think Celebrini is a lock regardless of what happens so I don’t really see the point of discussing this

 

[HabbyGuy]

At this point, as a hab fan, I'd have to say if voted today Celebrini more than likely wins the calder. What he's doing as an 18 year old on a shit sharks team is incredible. It's not just the points he's putting up, it's how he plays the game. The kid's game is far more advanced than his age. He does everything for that team, is already undoubtedly their leader with how he leads with his on ice play.

That said, anyone discounting what Hutson is doing as a rookie defenceman due to Celebrini missing games it out to lunch. Hutson is a huge component as to why the Habs are having some success. His hockey IQ is off the charts and his defensive game severely underrated. Hutson is the real deal and this calder race is far from over.

This video nicely breaks down all 3 players being considered for the calder, in Macklin, Lane and Matvei.

 

[JIMVINNY]

Nobody said last season's results matter. The point with last season is to point out the talent gap. There was a clear talent gap between the two teams and there still is. If you can't acknowledge that point, you're not going to be honest about this race.

As for the scoring pace point, the trends the past 20 games actually slightly favor Celebrini. There is no argument about who is more or less likely to drop off as the season wears on. The clear answer is Hutson. Defensemen always have a harder time maintaining production pace than forwards. That is another one of those where you can disagree with that if you want but you're arguing against history.

As for Celebrini being exceptional, he is and he has. That doesn't mean there aren't limits when you're talking about a team's talent gap compared to another. The Sharks are the worst team in the league without Celebrini. The Sharks are the 2nd or 3rd worst team with Celebrini. The Canadiens were the 5th worst team in the league last year clear of the Sharks by 29 points. They're a competitive team for a playoff spot now. They are obviously on different tiers as a team and when you go down the lineup, you can see why. It matters and there's a reason why even with Hutson winning rookie of the month in December that Celebrini still takes it and it's because it's obvious who the best rookie player actually is and it's Celebrini.


He won't have a prayer of winning if he doesn't outscore Celebrini given the games played by both guys. If Celebrini outproduces Hutson, and he very likely will, it'll be with 12 less games played on a much worse team. It will matter.

You clearly watch the Sharks a lot, but just as clearly, you don't watch anything else. You simply can't fathom a world where Celebrini isn't the best rookie, and I understand and applaud your commitment to your point of view. It's simply not accurate. Celebrini is having a great season by rookie standards, and his play has been impressive, but his play isn't moving the needle for his team. They're still bad, with or without him. Over the last 20 games, what Hutson is doing is at near-historic levels, and the Habs are having success as a team, with his contributions having significant impact.

Your speculation that Hutson is going to fade is just that, speculation. Hutson has been improving, not fading. The scoring pace might slightly favor Celebrini, but he doesn't have enough games left to catch Hutson if they both maintain what they've done over the past 20. The assumption that he needs to beat Celebrini in points is foolish, considering Calder winning defenseman rarely win the rookie scoring race.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It’s pretty clear you think Celebrini is a lock regardless of what happens so I don’t really see the point of discussing this

If he stays healthy, he is a lock.

 

[JIMVINNY]

If he stays healthy, he is a lock.

This is such a foolish statement. What happens if Michkov goes on a run and finishes with 40 goals and 75 points, while Celebrini tails off and only finishes with 65? Do you REALLY think Celebrini still wins it then? Please say yes. The delusion will be apparent.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

If he stays healthy, he is a lock.

Ridiculous lmao did you just start watching hockey this year or what?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

At this point, as a hab fan, I'd have to say if voted today Celebrini more than likely wins the calder. What he's doing as an 18 year old on a shit sharks team is incredible. It's not just the points he's putting up, it's how he plays the game. The kid's game is far more advanced than his age. He does everything for that team, is already undoubtedly their leader with how he leads with his on ice play.

That said, anyone discounting what Hutson is doing as a rookie defenceman due to Celebrini missing games it out to lunch. Hutson is a huge component as to why the Habs are having some success. His hockey IQ is off the charts and his defensive game severely underrated. Hutson is the real deal and this calder race is far from over.

Is anyone discounting him? I mean the only reason there is even a debate at who is favorite is because Celebrini missed some games w/injury.
I think most everyone has Hutson 2nd on their list (maybe 3rd if you value wolf).

Your first paragraph is dead on, celebrini is just a very special player, and doing all of this as an 18 year old. Which is another big factor for me as to why Celebrini will win if he stays healthy. Hes 2 years and 4 months younger than Hutson, and playing a posistion that will get more eyes on it.

Hutsons having a great season, and prooving all the haters wrong... hell be top 3 in calder.... and looks like he is establishing himself as 1 of the top young dmen in the game.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You clearly watch the Sharks a lot, but just as clearly, you don't watch anything else. You simply can't fathom a world where Celebrini isn't the best rookie, and I understand and applaud your commitment to your point of view. It's simply not accurate. Celebrini is having a great season by rookie standards, and his play has been impressive, but his play isn't moving the needle for his team. They're still bad, with or without him. Over the last 20 games, what Hutson is doing is at near-historic levels, and the Habs are having success as a team, with his contributions having significant impact.

Your speculation that Hutson is going to fade is just that, speculation. Hutson has been improving, not fading. The scoring pace might slightly favor Celebrini, but he doesn't have enough games left to catch Hutson if they both maintain what they've done over the past 20. The assumption that he needs to beat Celebrini in points is foolish, considering Calder winning defenseman rarely win the rookie scoring race.

The idea that he doesn't move the needle for the team just because they're awful with or without him just shows you haven't watched any Celebrini-Sharks game. Their record with and without him is statistically significant. Being 3-8-1 without and 10-16-5 with him is a big difference for a team that was horrendous before he showed up. For as good and historic as what Hutson has done the past 20 games, Celebrini has been slightly better from a production standpoint while playing a complete 200 foot game something that Hutson isn't exactly standing out for.

You're right that if they finish at the last 20 games pace, Hutson would have 70 points and Celebrini would have 69. That would have Hutson playing all 82 games compared to the 70 for Celebrini. In that scenario, even if Hutson and the Canadiens make the playoffs, Celebrini is winning the Calder. Hutson definitely would have a stellar case but that one point difference winning the scoring race that only happens because of an early injury even from a defenseman isn't going to override that Celebrini is basically doing what he's doing on his own compared to Hutson benefitting from a lot of things out of his control.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Is anyone discounting him? I mean the only reason there is even a debate at who is favorite is because Celebrini missed some games w/injury.
I think most everyone has Hutson 2nd on their list (maybe 3rd if you value wolf).

Your first paragraph is dead on, celebrini is just a very special player, and doing all of this as an 18 year old. Which is another big factor for me as to why Celebrini will win if he stays healthy. Hes 2 years and 4 months younger than Hutson, and playing a posistion that will get more eyes on it.

Hutsons having a great season, and prooving all the haters wrong... hell be top 3 in calder.... and looks like he is establishing himself as 1 of the top young dmen in the game.

If you think this is the "only" reason this is even up for debate than I dunno what to tell you. Hutson as of now, just on his play alone has earned the right to argue and lay claim to the rookie of the year. (despite Celebrini being the favourite at this point)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is such a foolish statement. What happens if Michkov goes on a run and finishes with 40 goals and 75 points, while Celebrini tails off and only finishes with 65? Do you REALLY think Celebrini still wins it then? Please say yes. The delusion will be apparent.

What happens when Celebrini goes on another run? That's not the point. The best player in the class is Celebrini. Michkov would need 28 goals in 41 games to pull off 40 goals. That's not going to happen. Celebrini finishing at 65 is slightly below his current pace which is about 70 points.

Ridiculous lmao did you just start watching hockey this year or what?

I've watched more hockey than you, I can practically guarantee it. Now what? I bet your views of Celebrini is severely limited if you think Hutson is on the same level as a player to Celebrini just because he has three more points in 12 more games.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If you think this is the "only" reason this is even up for debate than I dunno what to tell you. Hutson as of now, just on his play alone has earned the right to argue and lay claim to the rookie of the year. (despite me saying Celebrini would/should be the favourite at this point)

Disagree. I've watched plenty of Hutson this year. His influence on the game is not at Celebrini's level. They're both talented players but the impact with and without the puck heavily favor Celebrini.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

What happens when Celebrini goes on another run? That's not the point. The best player in the class is Celebrini. Michkov would need 28 goals in 41 games to pull off 40 goals. That's not going to happen. Celebrini finishing at 65 is slightly below his current pace which is about 70 points.

I've watched more hockey than you, I can practically guarantee it. Now what? I bet your views of Celebrini is severely limited if you think Hutson is on the same level as a player to Celebrini just because he has three more points in 12 more games.

The fact that you think Hutson is only in this conversation because of 3 more points shows you have no idea what you’re talking about lmao

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The fact that you think Hutson is only in this conversation because of 3 more points shows you have no idea what you’re talking about lmao

That's not a fact but go on. Make a point.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

That's not a fact but go on. Make a point.

Thank you, guy who thinks all of his opinions are facts