Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[majormajor]

Its the calder trophy. Only counting stats matter

Goals, assists, wins, shutouts, gaa.

You do you, I'll stick with best player.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Classic Habs fan BS job. Yeah you guys had a great weekend. Don't act like Hutson has been some exemplar of defense all year. Just look at the season stats. It's not the profile of a good defensive player. He has the highest xGA/60 of any D not playing for the Sharks.

Yes, he's a rookie and expectations are low for rookie D and he'll keep getting better at it. All of that is true, I'm sure. But this year, the thing that matters for the Calder is this year. Have you noticed that you're simultaneously saying he should be getting the Calder and also that "he's good at it for a rookie"? That's not a thing you should be saying when you're comparing someone to Macklin Celebrini.

the best player doesn't always win the calder trophy. Its the player with the most impressive statline.

You do you, I'll stick with best player.

I can show you many instances where the best player never won the calder trophy.

 

[wetcoast]

currently celebrini has the edge but the thing is hutson is primed for a more advantageous second half of the season. Hope it is close right through the season

How so?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Classic Habs fan BS job. Yeah you guys had a great weekend. Don't act like Hutson has been some exemplar of defense all year. Just look at the season stats. It's not the profile of a good defensive player. He has the highest xGA/60 of any D not playing for the Sharks.

Yes, he's a rookie and expectations are low for rookie D and he'll keep getting better at it. All of that is true, I'm sure. But this year, the thing that matters for the Calder is this year. Have you noticed that you're simultaneously saying he should be getting the Calder and also that "he's good at it for a rookie"? That's not a thing you should be saying when you're comparing someone to Macklin Celebrini.

You're too much. Unless sheltered, a rookie D's xGA will always get a much steeper effect from playing on a shit team than it does a forward. Whether classical or expected GF/GA, GF%, they are all line driven stats.

Hutson's GF% has steadily been going up too, meaning he's getting better as he progresses. In fact, he's 17gf 13ga at ES in his last 15 games, which is better than what Celebrini has done in a similar timeframe (17gf 17ga).

The mountain to climb in playing well defensively is a lot steeper for defensemen than forwards, if they are not sheltered and Hutson hasn't been sheltered at all.

 

[majormajor]

the best player doesn't always win the calder trophy. Its the player with the most impressive statline.


I can show you many instances where the best player never won the calder trophy.

So you're saying that Celebrini (who has by far the most impressive statline) will win it?

Personally I'm going to keep arguing for giving the trophy to the best player, which is also Celebrini. If people have voted for the wrong player in the past, sure, that's not that interesting to me.

You're too much. Unless sheltered, a rookie D's xGA will always get a much steeper effect from playing on a shit team than it does a forward. Whether classical or expected GF/GA, GF%, they are all line driven stats.

Yes it's unfortunate that things have been so hard for him. How terrible.

Is this a pity party or a Calder conversation?

If you have to make multiple paragraph excuses for why a player has abysmal against stats, then maybe this isn't the Trophy for them.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

How so?

First 21 games:
0g 11a 11pts
5vs5 14gf 20ga 41.18GF%

Last 15 games:
2g 13a 15pts
5vs5 17gf 13ga 56.67GF%

 

[wetcoast]

I think if Montreal makes the playoffs.. it's going to be a lot closer than you think.

Does anyone seriously think that the Habs are making the playoffs though?

 

[Boonk]

That Will Smith argument is ridiculous.

Michkov was and is the better prospect despite Will being drafted ahead of him. Furthermore Michkov was rightfully deemed NHL ready while everybody knew, Will is not close to that.

Never said Will Smith was better than Michkov, no clue where you got that idea from. I guess reading is hard. Just that he was drafted ahead of him, which he was. I fully believe Michkov would be putting up better numbers on the Sharks, nowhere close to Celebrinis and his 200' play isnt close either.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

If you have to make multiple paragraph excuses for why a player has abysmal against stats, then maybe this isn't the Trophy for them.

There's always a lot of explanation needed when dealing with people who rely on reductions.

Here's a simple one for you, since you can only think simplistically:

5vs5
Hutson 31GF 33GA
Celebrini 17GF 17GA

One is -2 and is being the most used dman on a shit team while the other is even (0+/-) while being sheltered behind Mikael Granlund and is being used as exploitation on a shit team.

Btw, in raw stats, including empty net an'all, Celebrini is -8 and Hutson is -10. There's very little difference there too, while Hutson played more games.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So you're saying that Celebrini (who has by far the most impressive statline) will win it?

Personally I'm going to keep arguing for giving the trophy to the best player, which is also Celebrini. If people have voted for the wrong player in the past, sure, that's not that interesting to me.



Yes it's unfortunate that things have been so hard for him. How terrible.

Is this a pity party or a Calder conversation?

If you have to make multiple paragraph excuses for why a player has abysmal against stats, then maybe this isn't the Trophy for them.

yeah, if celebrini has the most impressive statline at the end of the season he'll win it.

If Hutson and Celebrini/Michkov are within 10 points of eachother at the end of the season might be a different story

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

yeah, if celebrini has the most impressive statline at the end of the season he'll win it.

If Hutson and Celebrini/Michkov are within 10 points of eachother at the end of the season might be a different story

If Hutson is 10 points away from Celebrini by season's end, he'll probably finish close to top 5 all-time for a rookie D, while Celebrini will be around top 20 for a rookie forward.

Historically, that would make Hutson's rookie season as more impressive.

 

[coooldude]

the highest xGA/60 of any D not playing for the Sharks.

I don't have a comment on the back and forth except to state that I find it surprising how frequently posters ignore games played when talking about counting stats. /G at least will certainly be taken into account by voters. Maybe they should, but they probably won't take /60 into account.

 

[Xirik]

Celebrini is looking like the Calder favorite and he's doing it while playing a complete game. He's got that trophy locked down IMO.

 

[Sugi21]

I scoff at people saying Hutson is being sheltered lol he’s averaging 22 mins of ice time as a rookie dman how do you shelter 22 minutes of ice time as a dman???? I’m listening

 

[Adam Warlock]

Yeah he would. He’s not a normal rookie that doesn’t have a well-rounded game. Torts plays rookies like Celebrini that win situations consistently everywhere on the ice. It doesn’t matter how a lot of rookies get treated. Some overcome that if their play warrants it in a way the coach favors. Celebrini does that. It doesn’t matter what an organization believes in. Results and tape doesn’t lie.

As for Hutson, he can hang with Celebrini in scoring and he’d still lose the Calder. If you don’t think an 18 year old consensus #1 draft pick going ppg with Selke level defense as a rookie isn’t going to be considered by the voters, you’re fooling yourself. He’s the real deal and the obvious best rookie in this class. He only loses if he gets injured again seriously enough.

If Celebrini can stay mostly healthy then this is locked up.

Even Hutson or Michkov scoring 80 pts wouldn't be enough. You're comparing an elite defensive forward to a porous one-way D and a porous one-way F, it won't cut it.

It's not a Flyers thing or a Torts thing. I know Flyers fans exceptionalize every thing about their team and think it's all incredible incompetence. The reality is that scratching rookies with incomplete games (most of them) is normal in most of the league.

But you give Torts a rare instantly complete player like Celebrini and he'll play the crap out of him. He had Zach Werenski and Pierre Luc Dubois as 19 year olds and had them on the top line / unit and never scratched them.

It is a Flyers thing...Torts is just a symptom of it. There is a reason Gauthier wanted out and demanded a trade. There is a reason Michkov and Kolosov played the "ill go back to russia if you stick me in the AHL" card...bc theyd all be in the AHL until they were 25 if the Flyers had their way. It has nothing to do with talent or play. Again...Emil Andrae was playing phenominal and was sent down for no reason other than their f***ed up philosophy that young players cant find success too quickly or theyll develop poor character.

Stop falling for the propaganda. The Flyers org is bad for hockey.

The Flyers represent a traditional hockey culture unlike the Sharks, like was mentioned before. Those sunbelt bums in California don't know shit about hockey. They're letting Celebrini be the 1C, that's just irresponsible. Am I doing this right?

Traditional hockey culture = bad. Both our teams are rebuilding and your team acquired a top D, C, G, and Wing in less than 2 years while the Flyers only have Michkov. Your young players are thriving while ours get burried in the minors or on the bench. Guarentee Dickinson plays 100 NHL games before Bonk plays 10....and itd be reversed if the players switched teams.

 

[wasup]

Celebrini would be Phillys 1C and would easily be more important than Michkov on that roster, hed have more points playing with Konecny as his wing and the better depth on that team. The current Sharks team hes on is dogwater compared to Philly and is actually not an environment most NHL rookies would succeed in to the degree he has. Case in point, his teammate and fellow rookie peer Will Smith, who was drafted ahead of Michkov, is pacing for around 30~pts on this Sharks season, if hes lucky and doesnt keep struggling.

Hes just better than Michkov and thats it. It has nothing to do with this excuse of Torts being this "Rocky Thompson" esque coach who punishes players not producing/playing well or whatever culture is there in Philly.

I do believe Celebrini is the stronger player for sure but Tort's and his braindead sidekick Rocky do not help your confidence nor your offensive game at all . He hates offense and has no idea or care of how to create it .

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It is a Flyers thing...Torts is just a symptom of it. There is a reason Gauthier wanted out and demanded a trade. There is a reason Michkov and Kolosov played the "ill go back to russia if you stick me in the AHL" card...bc theyd all be in the AHL until they were 25 if the Flyers had their way. It has nothing to do with talent or play. Again...Emil Andrae was playing phenominal and was sent down for no reason other than their f***ed up philosophy that young players cant find success too quickly or theyll develop poor character.

Stop falling for the propaganda. The Flyers org is bad for hockey.



Traditional hockey culture = bad. Both our teams are rebuilding and your team acquired a top D, C, G, and Wing in less than 2 years while the Flyers only have Michkov. Your young players are thriving while ours get burried in the minors or on the bench. Guarentee Dickinson plays 100 NHL games before Bonk plays 10....and itd be reversed if the players switched teams.

Two things can be true at the same time here. Yeah, the Flyers org is likely behind the times and not great for player development. Some guys succeed despite that organizational arrangement. Celebrini would be one of those guys because he's that guy.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I do believe Celebrini is the stronger player for sure but Tort's and his braindead sidekick Rocky do not help your confidence nor your offensive game at all . He hates offense and has no idea or care of how to create it .

I think this will be Torts last season in Philly . I expect the shackles to come off when they bring in new blood ( and presumably another high draft pic )

 

[viceroy]

How so?

Well most of the 1st half he didn't have Laine. Also having Carrier now in the 2nd half helps balance the D pairings. Also for a good portion of time he wasn't the go to power play but now he is. His PPG rate should thusly be stronger.

Does anyone seriously think that the Habs are making the playoffs though?

Hey man I'm a huge Habs homer and I was hoping for maybe 1pt over the weekend in Florida. We got 4 over 2 dominating performances. Maybe we do have a shot or at least be in the mix.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Celebrini CF% 56.9 CF% Rel 16.8 FF% 56.7 FF% Rel 17.9 CF/60 72.1 CA/60 54.7 C/60 17.5 FF/60 53.1 FA/60 40.6 F/60 12.5
Hutson CF% 52.4 CF% Rel 9.8 FF% 53.1 FF% Rel 10.5 CF/60 61.5 CA/60 55.9 C/60 5.6 FF/60 44.7 FA/60 39.4 F/60 5.3
Michkov CF% 55.7 CF% Rel 11.4 FF% 58.0 FF% Rel 12.4 CF/60 64.8 CA/60 51.7 C/60 13.2 FF/60 47.6 FA/60 34.5 F/60 13.1

Celebrini has wild Corsi Rel and Fenwick Rel scores.

 

[Frosty415]

There's always a lot of explanation needed when dealing with people who rely on reductions.

Here's a simple one for you, since you can only think simplistically:

5vs5
Hutson 31GF 33GA
Celebrini 17GF 17GA

One is -2 and is being the most used dman on a shit team while the other is even (0+/-) while being sheltered behind Mikael Granlund and is being used as exploitation on a shit team.

Btw, in raw stats, including empty net an'all, Celebrini is -8 and Hutson is -10. There's very little difference there too, while Hutson played more games.

I like how people accuse others of not watching the habs then this garbage gets tossed around.

"Sheltered behind Granlund"

Lmao

 

[Adam Warlock]

Two things can be true at the same time here. Yeah, the Flyers org is likely behind the times and not great for player development. Some guys succeed despite that organizational arrangement. Celebrini would be one of those guys because he's that guy.

Maybe youre right... we will never know for sure. My main point here is that people shouldnt make assumptions about Mich (or any flyers prospects) based on the actions of the Flyers coaches....and that any success they have is inspite of the Flyers.

 

[karltonian]

I like how people accuse others of not watching the habs then this garbage gets tossed around.

"Sheltered behind Granlund"

Lmao

He's sheltering Granlund now

 

[Vasilevskiy]

First 21 games:
0g 11a 11pts
5vs5 14gf 20ga 41.18GF%

Last 15 games:
2g 13a 15pts
5vs5 17gf 13ga 56.67GF%

And the reality is that it is a lot more likely this is a hot streak and he will regress to the first 21 games. But if you think he will continue on a 65-70 PT pace all the power to you.

Michkov also looked like PPG and then 7 games blank. Could very easily happen to Hutson.
Celebrini on the other hand looks as consistent as there is. He is just on another level and the impact he has for the sharks is much larger than Hutson for the habs

 

[wasup]

I think this will be Torts last season in Philly . I expect the shackles to come off when they bring in new blood ( and presumably another high draft pic )

I have been a big fan of Philly over the years and had been part of their HF board group for the last 8 years . I completely lost my shit with Tort's A hole tactic's and antics over the last few years and have quit their board and cheering for them till he is gone . His X and O's of the game are completely wrong for the modern NHL game and that he is the only star that is allowed on that roster .