Olympics: Enjoy it, Canadian fans, while we can...

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Canada has persevered and come out on top at 3/4 last Winter Olympics-so credit is due there. There's also no doubt that Canada continue to lead the pack in the quantity and quality of drafted forwards and defensemen. Does that equal undisputed dominance? Not sure.

I think he meant in the future going forward.

I don't think he was. Maybe I am wrong.

My point to all this is, the myth of Canada's decline in hockey ranks right up there with:

1) the sasquatch;
2) the Loch Ness monster;
3) the mild, meek, and humble Canadian.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

I don't think he did. Maybe I am wrong.

My point to all this is, the myth of Canada's decline in hockey ranks right up there with:

1) the sasquatch;
2) the Loch Ness monster;
3) the mild, meek, and humble Canadian.

I think we have not been talking about any decline in Canadian hockey for awhile now.


At least I have not seen it in quite some time.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I think we have not been talking about any decline in Canadian hockey for awhile now.

Wait until my buddy "2525" sees this thread. Then you will hear about it.

 

[zeropotentate]

You guys made some good arguments and are correct.

Where we are now, we look back and say Canada has dominated the past 12 years of International hockey, obviously our 3 Olympic Golds show for it. I was trying to show, though, at the time except for 2014 there was no sense of total domination during the process, and I think we should remember the adversity along the way.

But perhaps that adversity is the key as to why we remember those wins fondly because we did win (in the end) and that's a super great thing.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

But perhaps that adversity is the key as to why we remember those wins fondly because we did win (in the end) and that's a super great thing.

You are right, it is less fun when we dominate. Few hockey fans vividly remember the win over the U.S. in 2002, the win over Finland in 2004 (World Cup) or the win over Sweden in 2014. No one has ever forgotten Crosby's Golden Goal or the feelings it created. Few of my generation, forgot Mario's goal in 1987.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Wait until my buddy "2525" sees this thread. Then you will hear about it.

Who is 2525?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Who is 2525?

Another poster. A good guy. A Canadian who hates Hockey Canada. I beg him to stop but he loves ripping Canadian Hockey / praising U.S. Hockey too much to stop.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Another poster. A good guy. A Canadian who hates Hockey Canada. I beg him to stop but he loves ripping Hockey Canada / praising U.S. Hockey too much to stop.

Hockey Canada deserves every bit of criticism they get.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Hockey Canada deserves every bit of criticism they get.

Mr. Writer is another buddy who loves Canadian Hockey but hates Hockey Canada - or at least the management.

Sounds like a contradiction but it isn't.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Just so that I'm clear on the ground rules, undisputed dominance by Canada is tied into performance at best on best men's senior level competition (Olympics/World Cup of Hockey)? If so, then yeah Canada is on top. Will that continue? It's likely but not a foregone conclusion.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Just so that I'm clear on the ground rules, undisputed dominance by Canada is tied into performance at best on best men's senior level competition (Olympics/World Cup of Hockey)? If so, then yeah Canada is on top. Will that continue? It's likely but not a foregone conclusion.

Nothing is a forgone conclusion unless the rest of the world immediately loses interest in hockey.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Just so that I'm clear on the ground rules, undisputed dominance by Canada is tied into performance at best on best men's senior level competition (Olympics/World Cup of Hockey)? If so, then yeah Canada is on top. Will that continue? It's likely but not a foregone conclusion.

The "ground rules" say you should come over from the dark side, RR.
Run, don't walk, from "the abyss" and fully support Canada hockey, buddy.

Nothing is a forgone conclusion unless the rest of the world immediately loses interest in hockey.

Yes. Could we lose in 2018, if there is a 2018? Of course. On paper however, things look good, very good, for the guys in red and white.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Mr. Writer is another buddy who loves Canadian Hockey but hates Hockey Canada - or at least the management.

Sounds like a contradiction but it isn't.

As much as I criticize the nincompoops at Hockey Canada, I do like to give credit when credit is due; and since today the U17 camps get underway, revised, revamped and re-energized, kudos for them for doing that. It should have been done 10 years ago...but better late than never.

 

[Rangediddy]

Canada needs to address it's Goaltending to be the undisputed favorites at tournaments. Can't be rolling into an Olympics with Mike Smith as your 3rd backup. No knock to him, but it's the only perceived weak spot to our team and only thing that causes doubt.

In 2018, Price will be the only experienced keeper we'd have (other than Smith who didn't play at all)... That could be of concern if he is no longer our best goaltending option.

 

[Get North]

Canada let in 3 goals total of the tournament and only 1 against Finland, USA and Sweden combined!

I hope that kills the Canada didn't put up a dominance performance argument because that should say enough.

 

[xxxx]

Canada needs to address it's Goaltending to be the undisputed favorites at tournaments. Can't be rolling into an Olympics with Mike Smith as your 3rd backup. No knock to him, but it's the only perceived weak spot to our team and only thing that causes doubt.

In 2018, Price will be the only experienced keeper we'd have (other than Smith who didn't play at all)... That could be of concern if he is no longer our best goaltending option.

Meh, while I agree that the goaltending should be better, we are solid right now and will be for sure in the next two big tournaments.

Price is good enough and he's still getting better.

Even withou Price, there are a lot of solid goalies that would be more than good for Team Canada, especially with that defence Canada has. Even if Price was injured and Luongo too, and we would have to go with Crawford (in 2016), maybe some people would be worried, because Canadian goaltending is too much underrated this time, but I am certain that the only disadvantage in net that Canada has is in juniors. When we are competing with our best, the quality of our top 6 goalies is pretty good. Would you really be that worried if Bernier would be in net? Or Fleury? I wouldn't. Let alone with Crawford or Luongo. Be thankfull for what we have.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Meh, while I agree that the goaltending should be better, we are solid right now and will be for sure in the next two big tournaments.

Price is good enough and he's still getting better.

Even withou Price, there are a lot of solid goalies that would be more than good for Team Canada, especially with that defence Canada has. Even if Price was injured and Luongo too, and we would have to go with Crawford (in 2016), maybe some people would be worried, because Canadian goaltending is too much underrated this time, but I am certain that the only disadvantage in net that Canada has is in juniors. When we are competing with our best, the quality of our top 6 goalies is pretty good. Would you really be that worried if Bernier would be in net? Or Fleury? I wouldn't. Let alone with Crawford or Luongo. Be thankfull for what we have.

What you are saying here is not untrue, however, I think most Canadian fans know our goaltending situation could and should be much better and understand we would be that much stronger as a program across the board if we had it.

So why settle for just allright? we always had great goaltending in the past, it used to be our trump card and a given. And most of us think it still should be. Run of the mill or just "good enough to get by" just does not cut it for us and for good reason.

 

[JackSlater]

What you are saying here is not untrue, however, I think most Canadian fans know our goaltending situation could and should be much better and understand we would be that much stronger as a program across the board if we had it.

So why settle for just allright? we always had great goaltending in the past, it used to be our trump card and a given. And most of us think it still should be. Run of the mill or just "good enough to get by" just does not cut it for us and for good reason.

I'm not interested in the autofellatio aspect of this thread, but this is a good point. Canada's goaltending is just mediocre among the best hockey nations, but not terrible... and that is not good enough. Canada has more players, more infrastructure and more hockey capital than any other country, and generally by large margins. Having one elite goaltender is not good enough.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

I'm not interested in the autofellatio aspect of this thread, but this is a good point. Canada's goaltending is just mediocre among the best hockey nations, but not terrible... and that is not good enough. Canada has more players, more infrastructure and more hockey capital than any other country, and generally by large margins. Having one elite goaltender is not good enough.

Yep, having one elite goaltender is certainly not good enough, especially considering the resources you mentioned that Canada has going for it.

You can never have enough good goaltending even when you have a plethora of world class defenders. And what happens when you may be in a down cycle with d-men for a few years and really need a world class goalie but don't have one or the one you have cannot play due to injury or whatnot? it really lowers your ability to win tournaments.

Goaltending is critical and for far too long we have not done a good job of producing them.

 

[Rangediddy]

I'm not interested in the autofellatio aspect of this thread, but this is a good point. Canada's goaltending is just mediocre among the best hockey nations, but not terrible... and that is not good enough. Canada has more players, more infrastructure and more hockey capital than any other country, and generally by large margins. Having one elite goaltender is not good enough.

I agree, and while Price *could* be considered Elite, he still doesn't give us an advantage over other competative country's goaltending.

USA - Quick
Finland - Rask
Sweden - Lundquist
Russia - Varlomov/Bobrovsky (debatable-but close enough for this discussion)
Even the Latvian goalie was better than Price in their game again Canada!

All that being said, the disparity in talent isn't that wide, and with the Defence we possess, we aren't in any trouble by any stretch, but if we want to show actual dominance, we should possess the advantage in all categories.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

IMO, Canada has been able to be successful of late (relative term) at the Olympics despite average goaltending (that said, Price was good in Sochi). That's a testimony to the overall talent and coaching of those respective teams (I thought the Canadian defense was particularly good this last go around). It's been a different story at the WJC and WC level.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

IMO, Canada has been able to be successful of late (relative term) at the Olympics despite average goaltending (that said, Price was good in Sochi). That's a testimony to the overall talent and coaching of those respective teams (I thought the Canadian defense was particularly good this last go around). It's been a different story at the WJC and WC level.

Goalie production has been average to less then average and the lack of quality has hurt us at both the WJC and WC for awhile now. At the senior best on best level we have not been bitten yet but will if we cannot get something going besides Price.

It has to improve, and soon.

 

[End on a Hinote]

I don't think he was. Maybe I am wrong.

My point to all this is, the myth of Canada's decline in hockey ranks right up there with:

1) the sasquatch;
2) the Loch Ness monster;
3) the mild, meek, and humble Canadian.

Sportsnet aired a special regarding what is wrong with minor hockey in Canada, literally, the day after we won our 3 or the last 4 Olympic gold medals.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juni...ssues-don-cherry-hockey-central-parents-cost/

Seriously, less than 24 hours after we were crowned world champions again, they do this. Can you imagine Germany airing a special regarding what they can try to do to fix youth soccer in Germany less than a day after they won their 4th World Cup???

Part of me feels as if the Canadian media feeds on this "Canada will not dominate hockey much longer" theory for the sake of ratings and stirring up discussion. Jeez, looking back we were supposed to fall off the hockey dominance podium back in the 90's yet we are still rocking out the best.

So, to my fellow Canadian hockey fans, enjoy this while we can. The other countries are starting to refill their cupboards and the gap will start to close in the early 2020's. Then you, like I have in the past, might wish you appreciated how great we were when you had the chance.

Forgive me if I misunderstood, but going by your logic even if the gap does close by the 2020's, wouldn't we just go and pull ahead later on again, anyway?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Sportsnet aired a special regarding what is wrong with minor hockey in Canada, literally, the day after we won our 3 or the last 4 Olympic gold medals.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juni...ssues-don-cherry-hockey-central-parents-cost/

Seriously, less than 24 hours after we were crowned world champions again, they do this. Can you imagine Germany airing a special regarding what they can try to do to fix youth soccer in Germany less than a day after they won their 4th World Cup???

Hi HiNote:

Canadians like to eat their own. I can't think of another country that would do this.

Part of me feels as if the Canadian media feeds on this "Canada will not dominate hockey much longer" theory for the sake of ratings and stirring up discussion. Jeez, looking back we were supposed to fall off the hockey dominance podium back in the 90's yet we are still rocking out the best.

Yup.

Forgive me if I misunderstood, but going by your logic even if the gap does close by the 2020's, wouldn't we just go and pull ahead later on again, anyway?

That is what has happened in the past and what I believe will happen in the future.

The reason I mentioned 2020, all teams not named Canada will take a (big) step back in 2018 :

--- The U.S. will still have strong D-Men and goalies but their forwards will be old/lacking in Korea. And, by 2020, the U.S. will have no choice but to replace : Parise, Kesler, Pavelski, Statsny, Brown, Backes, Pacioretty, Oshie, Callahan, and Wheeler. The youngest of their current group : Kessel will be 32, Kane 31 and JVR will be 31. Given how weak their last 7 drafts have been offensively, that is a LOT to ask.

The Americans have strong forwards coming in the next couple drafts but I doubt they will make much of an impact in 2018. 2020 would be the earliest we see a difference/uptick. The 2018 team will be good but, on paper, not near Canada.

--- Russia is weak on the back end and their best/brightest (OV, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk) will all be 32+ in Korea. Nothing to see here.

--- Sweden's Golden Generation is aging fast. Sweden will likely be our strongest competition in Korea (on the big ice) but, even then, we will be on a whole different level.

--- Finland is rebuilding but always outperforms.

--- Czechs/Slovakia are shells of their former selves.

Given how weak our competition will be in 2018, they cannot help but get better in 2020 and beyond - thus closing the gap. Of course, we will get better as well. We always do.

 

[maketrades]

This isn't meant to be racist at all.

But I honestly believe the only way Canada isn't the best hockey country in the world EVER is if more black people in the states start playing hockey, because then they will dominate like in every other sport.