Post-Game Talk: End of the Shanascam? | Leafs Blown Out at Home Again

[Stephen]

Well what if you don't ignore his shutout?

Over the full 7 games, Joseph Woll had 3.56 GAA and .886 SV%

I mean, those are Allan Bester 1987 levels of goalie ineptitude.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Am I crazy? You guys lost a ton of players to injuries, endured a ton of dirty hits including one that concussed your starter, and dragged the series to seven games against the defending Stanley cup champions. Obviously disappointing still but I don't see how this is some colossal failure.

You don't get it because you're not understanding the situation or the aggregate.

It's not your fault because you're not a fan of this team. I'm not talking shit, but you don't get it, with honestly no offense intended.

 

[Fogelhund]

Here is what is missing in this comment, and also the views of former players and the media. There is undeniable truth that the Core Four don't step up. But this team also has the worst income inequality ratio in the NHL, and you need to have real depth support at forward to take the pressure off the Core Four. Look at the Panthers: Barkov and Tkachuk did nothing. But 12 different other people scored in this playoff. So this idea that the big four have to step up is an illusion. They can't, because other teams know they just have to stop those guys. Granted, these guys will never step up. But I disagree that you don't need much stronger scoring depth.

Noting, I didn’t claim you don’t need scoring depth, but if you concentrate salary on a few, that few have to perform. That this proves concentrated salaries is problematic isn’t true…. We don’t have a case where the depth let us down, after the stars performed well. We just have underperformed all around.

The trick is figuring out who the real problems are.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

That Laughton trade hurts now, going to hurt a lot more down the road……..

I disagree. Who's going to play bottom 6 C next season?

 

[Trapper]

I don’t eat crap like that anymore, but it was definitely a tasty cereal that got stuck in your molars, at least that’s how I remember it……..

So it was like the Leafs team then.
Tasty regular season that gets stuck in your molars come playoff time.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When does da announcement come out that Shanny has been let go?

 

[theTTC]

Am I crazy? You guys lost a ton of players to injuries, endured a ton of dirty hits including one that concussed your starter, and dragged the series to seven games against the defending Stanley cup champions. Obviously disappointing still but I don't see how this is some colossal failure.

The issue you are not intimate with is that over the last nine years the Leafs, whether heavily favoured (vs Montreal or Columbus for example) or the underdog (this year), always lose in a horrible way... they always lose.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Over the full 7 games, Joseph Woll had 3.56 GAA and .886 SV%

I mean, those are Allan Bester 1987 levels of goalie ineptitude.

I'm not going to defend him too much, but I don't think he's that bad. He's supposed to be the goalie of the future here. Not every good goalie looked good this playoffs. Not just Woll.

 

[Thrasymachus]

In a vacuum this loss is not as terrible as some of the others. The thing is its year 9 of this, stack it all together and its not good.

I suppose that is true. Hadn't thought about the cumulative weight of it.

I guess the upside is that if you guys blow things up, you have an embarrassing amount of good assets to work with.

Also - I keep seeing people argue the leafs management doesn't care about winning because the franchise prints money... Would they not make even MORE money if they went deep / won a Stanley cup? More tickets sold, more merchandise sold (ESPECIALLY if they won a cup). That argument always struck me as dumb. I am sure your owners are pissed, want to win, and plan a shakeup. And they have very deep pockets - key is to invest it in the right people.

 

[Fogelhund]

Over the full 7 games, Joseph Woll had 3.56 GAA and .886 SV%

I mean, those are Allan Bester 1987 levels of goalie ineptitude.

When you do things like allow 74 shot attempts in two periods, you are going to make goalies look bad. When you limit shot chances, keep them to outside, no screens or deflections, you make goalies look good. I’m not saying Woll is blameless, but the Leafs certainly didn’t put him in a position to succeed. You can’t look at games 5 & 7 and say, Woll lost us those games… the team was terrible. On the other hand, he was a big reason we won game six.

 

[rumman]

Tell me if you can’t find 1 more level of hate after they sign Marner and Tavares again this summer.

I’m finding another team if that happens, hell I might do it if there isn’t a scorched earth scenario coming…….

 

[Metroid]

Well it was his unwarranted optimism that infuriated me, if that’s gone no one will know who he is, and he claimed to be a lawyer no less, never knew a lawyer who wasn’t overly guarded in the optimism department……..

Yeah I usually appreciate optimism on this site, just form reason his shit just bugged me for some reason

 

[rumman]

View attachment 1038929

Just like the core…….

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Auston Matthews is a generational passenger.

That's all he ever will be. There's no dog in him except at a negotiation table. None.

He doesn't even have that. He has his agent do all the work too

 

[Stephen]

When you do things like allow 74 shot attempts in two periods, you are going to make goalies look bad. When you limit shot chances, keep them to outside, no screens or deflections, you make goalies look good. I’m not saying Woll is blameless, but the Leafs certainly didn’t put him in a position to succeed. You can’t look at games 5 & 7 and say, Woll lost us those games… the team was terrible. On the other hand, he was a big reason we won game six.

Team and goalie were synchronous in their awful play.

When Domi made it 3-1, Woll probably could have saved their whole organizational reputation just keeping them in it to fight 10 minutes for that 3-2 goal. Make it a scramble to finish, give the crowd one last hurrah. Nope. Complete nuclear winter level goaltending with a smile on his face. Just not a guy who can be trusted.

 

[Thrasymachus]

The issue you are not intimate with is that over the last nine years the Leafs, whether heavily favoured (vs Montreal or Columbus for example) or the underdog (this year), always lose in a horrible way... they always lose.

Yeah you are right.

I don't love the Leafs by any means, but I feel pretty awful for the fans at this point. I live in Nova Scotia and a lot of my friends, family are leaf fans and the misery they are going through right now makes me glum. It also makes me appreciate just how passionate and loyal a fanbase yall are.

This is somewhat offtopic, but watching HBO's OZ helps cheer me up. I find it is hard to get upset about sports when you are watching people in prison get shanked xD

 

[robertmac43]

I suppose that is true. Hadn't thought about the cumulative weight of it.

I guess the upside is that if you guys blow things up, you have an embarrassing amount of good assets to work with.

Also - I keep seeing people argue the leafs management doesn't care about winning because the franchise prints money... Would they not make even MORE money if they went deep / won a Stanley cup? More tickets sold, more merchandise sold (ESPECIALLY if they won a cup). That argument always struck me as dumb. I am sure your owners are pissed, want to win, and plan a shakeup. And they have very deep pockets - key is to invest it in the right people.

Some people around these parts are going to say 'blow it up', although I don't think thats what will happen in reality. There will be some key parts moving on but a lot of the core is coming back next season.

Yeah if this team went all the way MLSE would literally be rolling in money. I think what people are saying is having a consistent playoff team is deemed good enough from MLSE's side. They want the consistent 3-5 games of home playoff revenue.

 

[Fogelhund]

I’m finding another team if that happens, hell I might do it if there isn’t a scorched earth scenario coming…….

I don’t think I’d find another team, just other sports to pay attention to.

 

[Roo]

They finished 4th overall this year.
2023 they were 4th overall.
2022 they were 4th overall.
2021 they were 6th overall.

Last year 5th overall Florida won the Cup.
2023 5th overall Vegas won.
2021 8th overall Tampa Bay won.
And this year the highest ranked team that can win is the 5th place Stars.

At what point does the excuses about losing to better, bigger, more talented, deeper teams, etc. stop? The Leafs are among the top 4-5 teams in the league and have been for 4 of the last 5 years.

They have the roster top-to-bottom to match any team, as the standings prove. Problem is that they're a great regular season team that just cannot elevate their game like other teams do.

The regular season is the regular season. But yes, they haven’t elevated their game enough in the playoffs to go deep. That said, they were playing the reigning champs and you have to recognize that they set the bar. You want a better performance in games 5 and 7 for sure, but the Panthers may very well repeat this year. Frankly, it looks like the Panthers just wore us down-their MO.

Disappointment aside, you have to recognize the step forward they did take. Florida has been playing this style for years now, the Leafs are one season in. Changes and improvement are needed, but blowing it up like some are suggesting seems like an overreaction. It’s still our best season since 2002. That goes much further back than the core 4 era.

What stood out for me, really most of the year, is that we need to improve our breakouts and sustain more pressure in the ozone.

 

[Fogelhund]

Team and goalie were synchronous in their awful play.

When Domi made it 3-1, Woll probably could have saved their whole organizational reputation just keeping them in it to fight 10 minutes for that 3-2 goal. Make it a scramble to finish, give the crowd one last hurrah. Nope. Complete nuclear winter level goaltending with a smile on his face. Just not a guy who can be trusted.

The fourth goal was a deflection

 

[rumman]

I clearly need to watch the first season of that show again, it was excellent. They lost me season 2. Too many characters and too many pltlines.

I’ve enjoyed every season except the last one, that one was too weird for me, and what’s with the same tattoo from season one’s victim to season four’s victim? I’m not a horror or sci fi fan and they’re going that way imo…….

 

[Ports]

Marner said he thinks the core can get it done.

Overall Marner doesnt sound like a player who wants to leave. So... as thought, just him and his team releasing rumors of him leaving, in an attempt to squeeze out every last penny. Remember they said they werent going to negotiate in the media. They definitely were... thanks Marner for continuing to be a huge distraction. Not like it wouldnt have been helpful to not talk all year and read all year about Marner.

He better be gone this offseason.

Thankfully he refused to sign an extension. He prevented the Leafs from shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[rumman]

I don’t think I’d find another team, just other sports to pay attention to.

Well I’m old so my hate for other teams isn’t what it once was, and to be perfectly honest I appreciate how Ottawa and Florida played against the Leafs, and sadly their desire was more inspiring than the Leafs talent

 

[Zack47]

Noting, I didn’t claim you don’t need scoring depth, but if you concentrate salary on a few, that few have to perform. That this proves concentrated salaries is problematic isn’t true…. We don’t have a case where the depth let us down, after the stars performed well. We just have underperformed all around.

The trick is figuring out who the real problems are.

Look at the salary structure of other teams. Its an abstraction, but it has spillover consequences. My point really was that if you concentrate salary that much, you make it harder for them to play as effectively as they could if your third line scored close to 60 goals a year (2018 -- Kadri, Kapanen, Jonsson). I don't think the third line underperformed here. They just performed as expected. The 4th line was actually better than expected. But does the left wing playing with Tavares make a difference? Does it matter that your third line centre scored 8 goals all year? Of course it does. Every year, it just looks like it is too easy to shut down the Core Four because opposing coaches just know that is all you have to shut down. Distributed scoring, that's the key, as Florida just showed us.... Florida doesn't have a Core Four in salary....

 

[Torontonian]

Yes let's blame the guys making league minimum and not the $10 million+ players.

Some of this fanbase is a bigger joke than the Core 4.

Not saying that, just not as emotional as you guys cause the core 4 has failed. There's other reasons as to why this team hasn't gotten it done.. Core 4 is one them, lack of secondary scoring is another one.

FLA has 17 different goal scorers this playoffs.. Tkchuck was held of the scoresheet, but it doesn't matter when other people pick up his slack.

Hockey is a team sport, if your only expectation is have 4 guys score every single goal of the playoffs, this is what you get.