Embracing the Rebuild: Tank Nation, the Thread

[haseoke39]

The current management team and coach are doing what I thought Regier/Rolston were going to do in the first place.

What's that? I can't point to anything the current management and coach are doing yet. I can't even point to anything they've said that they're going to do differently.

I mean, unless you just mean "coach better," but that's ridiculous to hang your hat on. No one was intentionally coaching badly.

 

[joshjull]

What's that? I can't point to anything the current management and coach are doing yet. I can't even point to anything they've said that they're going to do differently.

I mean, unless you just mean "coach better," but that's ridiculous to hang your hat on. No one was intentionally coaching badly.

Coaching ---> Getting rid of some of the kids from the lineup, play the younger players where they belong so they can develop properly, let the young players (all players really) play their game and not handicap them with restrictions. Let the vets be the leaders and be the ones that get the tougher in game assignments.

Management ---> I've listened to Patty L. in a few interviews. His focus is on creating a hard working winning culture., the main reason Nolan was brought in. We will be building the roster from now going forward through the draft, trades and free agency (his words). A big focus on the next two drafts due to the amount of picks we have in the first two rounds. Black commented on the fact that 50% of the goals scored in the NHL last year were scored by players taken in the first two rounds. They acknowledge that we need elite talent and that you have a good chance of landing it at the top of the draft. But we need to make hay with all the picks we have in order to set us up for years of contention. Their focus is far more holistic and well rounded. Their primary focus is not simply landing a high pick.

It was pretty clear last week that Regier was planning on sucking for several years while our kids floundered in order to land top picks to hopefully turn things around. Nothing would be done (adding via trades or free agency) to jeopardize getting to the top of the draft the next few years other than vet filler.

 

[haseoke39]

Coaching ---> Getting rid of some of the kids from the lineup, play the younger players where they belong so they can develop properly, let the young players (all players really) play their game and not handicap them with restrictions. Let the vets be the leaders and be the ones that get the tougher in game assignments.

Management ---> I've listened to Patty L. in a few interviews. His focus is on creating a hard working winning culture., the main reason Nolan was brought in. We will be building the roster from now going forward through the draft, trades and free agency (his words). A big focus on the next two drafts due to the amount of picks we have in the first two rounds. Black commented on the fact that 50% of the goals scored in the NHL last year were scored by players taken in the first two rounds. They acknowledge that we need elite talent and that you have a good chance of landing it at the top of the draft. But we need to make hay with all the picks we have in order to set us up for years of contention. Their focus is far more holistic and well rounded. Their primary focus is not simply landing a high pick.

It was pretty clear last week that Regier was planning on sucking for several years while our kids floundered in order to land top picks to hopefully turn things around. Nothing would be done (adding via trades or free agency) to jeopardize getting to the top of the draft the next few years other than vet filler.

TBH, I hear you looking at all of this through skewed glasses. When did Regier say we wouldn't use trades and FA. When did LaLa say we would start taking those routes in order to improve immediately. When did anyone say we weren't trying to get to the top of the draft. When did Regier say they kept up the kids in order to intentionally lose.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, but let me just say I read everything you're referencing and don't see it as indicating much of a change in direction. I think Nolan trying to instill work ethic is the biggest substantive change here, and that doesn't reflect that Darcy wanted bad work ethic - he just got it accidentally. Giving the kids better roles or sending them down seems to me to be a strategic choice - not one born out of a different goal.

 

[joshjull]

TBH, I hear you looking at all of this through skewed glasses. When did Regier say we wouldn't use trades and FA. When did LaLa say we would start taking those routes in order to improve immediately. When did anyone say we weren't trying to get to the top of the draft. When did Regier say they kept up the kids in order to intentionally lose.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, but let me just say I read everything you're referencing and don't see it as indicating much of a change in direction.

Have you actually listened to Patty L's interviews? I asked becasue you said you "read" the same things I did. I listened to him for 15-20mins in separate interviews. I didn't read the breakdowns by reporters with snippets of what he said quoted in the articles.

Anyway we can agree to disagree for now. There will be plenty of time the rest of the season next summer, etc to debate are respective positions

I think Nolan trying to instill work ethic is the biggest substantive change here, and that doesn't reflect that Darcy wanted bad work ethic - he just got it accidentally. Giving the kids better roles or sending them down seems to me to be a strategic choice - not one born out of a different goal.

Its not a different stategic choice. Its finally doing things the right way. And yes its a different goal that Jame has hounded me to admit. Its obvious now that Regier's direction was to get the top pick and thats was the top priority even at the expense of other things. In order to facilitate that we had a bunch of kids playing that shouldn't be in the NHL just yet. That was beyond stupid to do. It fairly obvious properly developing those kids is now a bigger priority with the new management group than it was with Regier. That doesn't mean getting a top pick isn't something the new group woulnd't like but its not the focus at the expense of other things. Something that appeared to be the case under Regier.

I think you (and others) are really missing the boat with the impact Nolan will have. I think part of that is due to lack of understanding of coaching in general that I've noticed on here. Rolston was utterly lost and in over his head. Its not just about the work ethic Nolan will instill (and thats a huge positive) , its about putting young players into positions to succeed. Its not giving them BETTER roles its about putting them in their PROPER roles that will help them succeed. Its also about letting them be the players they were drafted to be and not forcing them to play otherwise.


Things like Foligno and Ennis back on the wings and putting a placeholder vet like Leino at center to make sure it happens. And then putting a top center prospect (Girgs) at center where he belongs. Its about letting Myers play his game which is rushing the puck and getting heavily involved offensively. Myers has said a few times that Rolston didn't want him rushing the puck. Thats just stupid. Its also about taking Grigs, Larsson and Zads out of the lineup for now so there isn't so much youth out there.

 

[Djp]

Looking deeper into the schedule.....Is Buffalo really as bad as their record?

In looking over their schedule it was front loaded where Buffalo was playing a good number of the better teams in the league.

after Tuesday's game against St Louis they would have played 7 of the top 8 teams in the West for a total of 9 games.

Including the top 4 in the east of Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Boston, and Detroit....

Buffalo played 13 of their 22 games for a 2-10-1 record.

Are they that bad? I dont know. I could see them rebounding and being more in that 8-12 place area.

 

[Moskau]

I could see them rebounding and being more in that 8-12 place area.

No way. Their opponents records are relevant in that they may not be the worst overall team when it's all said and done by virtue of taking the worst of it already but I would say they actually played WORSE than their record shows. They flat out didn't deserve 2 of those "wins". They may move up in the overall standings past some Western teams but they've pretty much locked in bottom 2 in the East.

 

[Chainshot]

Debate post points, not poster.

 

[TehDoak]

Looking deeper into the schedule.....Is Buffalo really as bad as their record?

In looking over their schedule it was front loaded where Buffalo was playing a good number of the better teams in the league.

after Tuesday's game against St Louis they would have played 7 of the top 8 teams in the West for a total of 9 games.

Including the top 4 in the east of Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Boston, and Detroit....

Buffalo played 13 of their 22 games for a 2-10-1 record.

Are they that bad? I dont know. I could see them rebounding and being more in that 8-12 place area.

Are the Sabres as bad as their record? Probably not. Alot of the dysfunction this year has been coaching. But when you consider we've already jettisoned Vanek, and Miller, Ott, and Moulson are likely pieces on the way out as well. That being said, you can simply forget about 8th. The least amount of points to get 8th since the lockout is 88. For us to get 77 points in the final 60 games, that's 38-21-1. That is a 105 point pace.....no way.

This is, at best, a .500 team. So, lets say we go at a .500 clip...that's 71 pts, which is a lock for top 5. And, going at .500 really depends on Miller being able to steal the odd game. If we jettison Miller sooner rather than later, then .500 might be a pipe dream.

 

[sjci]

Are they that bad? I dont know. I could see them rebounding and being more in that 8-12 place area.

Even if they were to play at about .500 points/gm hockey the rest of the season (24-28-8), they've dug enough of a hole to begin the year that they should be looking at a bare minimum top 5 pick.

Going that record would have the Sabres finish with 67 points, and that is near basement level for the past couple years

Season | Draft Pick at 67 Points 2012-13 |

3rd​

|
2011-12 |

2nd​

|
2010-11 |

2nd​

|
2009-10 |

2nd​

|
2008-09 |

3rd​

|
2007-08 |

1st​

|
2006-07 |

2nd​

|

Basically
<69 points, Picking between 1-3 (About .500 pts/gm = 26-28-6)
70-79 points, Picking between 3-6 (About .533 pts/gm = 29-25-6)
>80 points, Picking 5/6 or later (.575 pts/gm or better = 32-23-5)

 

[Djp]

Even if they were to play at about .500 points/gm hockey the rest of the season (24-28-8), they've dug enough of a hole to begin the year that they should be looking at a bare minimum top 5 pick.

Going that record would have the Sabres finish with 67 points, and that is near basement level for the past couple years

Season | Draft Pick at 67 Points 2012-13 |

3rd​

|
2011-12 |

2nd​

|
2010-11 |

2nd​

|
2009-10 |

2nd​

|
2008-09 |

3rd​

|
2007-08 |

1st​

|
2006-07 |

2nd​

|

Basically
<69 points, Picking between 1-3 (About .500 pts/gm = 26-28-6)
70-79 points, Picking between 3-6 (About .533 pts/gm = 29-25-6)
>80 points, Picking 5/6 or later (.575 pts/gm or better = 32-23-5)

look at their schedule...after this weeks games of STL, at phl, DET ..thats 25 games, of which they had 16 games against the top teasm in the league.

Then the next 25 games they play only 6 in at Boston, Boston, at Washington, Washington, Phoenix, and at Minnesota.

Its not out of reach for this team to do something like 16-7-2 over the next 25 games after this week.

They play 16 of 25 at home.

During this stretch they have only singleton road games except for one trip that they do Minnesota and Winnipeg in back to back nights.

Im not at all saying they could make the playoffs.

After this 25 games stretch it gets bad again.

They play a stretch of the top teams in late Jan thru February and they finish the year from March on with something like 15 of their final 22 on the road.

About half of their games were 1 goal loses...if the team that played over the weekend played then they may have come away with wins in some of those games or at least gotten a pt at least.

 

[TehDoak]

look at their schedule...after this weeks games of STL, at phl, DET ..thats 25 games, of which they had 16 games against the top teasm in the league.

Then the next 25 games they play only 6 in at Boston, Boston, at Washington, Washington, Phoenix, and at Minnesota.

Its not out of reach for this team to do something like 16-7-2 over the next 25 games after this week.

They play 16 of 25 at home.

During this stretch they have only singleton road games except for one trip that they do Minnesota and Winnipeg in back to back nights.

Im not at all saying they could make the playoffs.

After this 25 games stretch it gets bad again.

They play a stretch of the top teams in late Jan thru February and they finish the year from March on with something like 15 of their final 22 on the road.

About half of their games were 1 goal loses...if the team that played over the weekend played then they may have come away with wins in some of those games or at least gotten a pt at least.

The only reason they were in most of those games was due to Miller standing on his head.

This is an average team at best. Strip out the remaining UFAs? It won't get better.

 

[haseoke39]

Alright, after a brief pause to shuffle the deck chairs, right back to the business of the Titanic.

Move Miller.

 

[Chainshot]

Edmonton tearing the Jackets a new one tonight, Philly wins another.

 

[SabresFan26]

Edmonton tearing the Jackets a new one tonight, Philly wins another.

Todd Richards has to be on the hot seat in Columbus.
With Edmonton's win, we continue on in #tanknation

 

[Chainshot]

Todd Richards has to be on the hot seat in Columbus.
With Edmonton's win, we continue on in #tanknation

Panthers are currently tied with the Canucks in the third in Vancouver. Hell, they were leading 1-0 at one point.

Check that... Canucks up 2-1. Damn.

 

[jfb392]

Panthers are currently tied with the Canucks in the third in Vancouver. Hell, they were leading 1-0 at one point.

Check that... Canucks up 2-1. Damn.

I made the right choice watching the end of that game.
The Panthers tied it up as soon as I did, but more importantly, there was a commercial for a beef, bacon, and pulled pork burger that looked life changing.

 

[jc17]

Even if they were to play at about .500 points/gm hockey the rest of the season (24-28-8), they've dug enough of a hole to begin the year that they should be looking at a bare minimum top 5 pick.

Going that record would have the Sabres finish with 67 points, and that is near basement level for the past couple years

Season | Draft Pick at 67 Points 2012-13 |

3rd​

|
2011-12 |

2nd​

|
2010-11 |

2nd​

|
2009-10 |

2nd​

|
2008-09 |

3rd​

|
2007-08 |

1st​

|
2006-07 |

2nd​

|

Basically
<69 points, Picking between 1-3 (About .500 pts/gm = 26-28-6)
70-79 points, Picking between 3-6 (About .533 pts/gm = 29-25-6)
>80 points, Picking 5/6 or later (.575 pts/gm or better = 32-23-5)

I like that. I like the idea that we can still play decent hockey and get a good draft slot. Thanks for posting this, its nice to have. This means i don't have to worry about losing the tank with each win, because now they pretty much have a good draft pick locked in unless they really take off.

 

[Chainshot]

I made the right choice watching the end of that game.
The Panthers tied it up as soon as I did, but more importantly, there was a commercial for a beef, bacon, and pulled pork burger that looked life changing.

Sad that I missed the ad but saw the rest of the game.

 

[Jame]

if Brayden Schenn is quietly available... we should be in on that

 

[gallagt01]

if Brayden Schenn is quietly available... we should be in on that

Absolutely. I wonder what it would take?

I'd put together a nice package for Schenn.

 

[tsujimoto74]

if Brayden Schenn is quietly available... we should be in on that

Yes. Absolutely. Adding Brayden Schenn to our stockpile of young centers would really solidify that position going forward. Once we add in our (presumable) top 5 picks in the next couple drafts, we would be looking pretty darn good and well-rounded at the forward position, I think.

 

[joshjull]

if Brayden Schenn is quietly available... we should be in on that

That would be nice.

Homer place continue your streak of awesome decisions, pretty please

 

[gallagt01]

I wonder if Ehrhoff would pique the Flyers' interest?

I don't think they can afford him, and the recapture clause certainly makes it a risk, but I would move Ehrhoff if the return was Schenn.

Heads up: Ehrhoff and Ennis for Simmonds and Schenn.

 

[AirBriere48]

Very solid night for the tank. At the moment, our odds are:

30th place: 60%
Bottom 2: 80%
Bottom 3: 89%

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHLlottery.html

 

[gallagt01]

Very solid night for the tank. At the moment, our odds are:

30th place: 60%
Bottom 2: 80%
Bottom 3: 89%

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHLlottery.html

An 11 percent chance of finishing 27th or higher.

Tankeriffic.