Player Discussion Elias Pettersson Talk | Also Chiropractors, the Medical Staff, and You

[credulous]

Meanwhille Petey gets to play with f***ing Lafferty, Mikheyev or Sprong, and people are up in his ass about not being able to produce as well as someone who gest to play with Leon f***ing Draisaitl as a winger.

If you look at last year's line-ups, there's not a single all-star calibre center that has played with a worse set of wingers than Petey had. He's the only center that doesn't get to play with wingers of his own calibre.

it's criminal the best they can come up with for pettersson is debrusk or sherwood. of course he looks bad playing with those stiffs

 

[kanucks25]

Miller went pretty much a full year being bad during the Covid season.

He also had a terrible 50 game stretch of poor defensive performances in the 2022-2023 season until Tocchet arrived. Meanwhile Pettersson (and if you want references of the games I’m talking about I can give them to you) single-handedly won us games we had no business being in. That whole year he was an absolute two-way beast and finished with Selke votes on a bottom league team. Yet somehow this fanbase selectively ignores this fact.

The last 3 years his most consistent linemates have been: Mikheyev, Lafferty, Kuzmenko, Hoglander, Chiasson, Beauvillier, Sprong, Podkolzin, and now Debrusk. No other $11M player has linemates anywhere close to this level. Yet Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Beauvillier have all had or were projected to have CAREER seasons playing beside Pettersson, and I’m not even counting Hoglander who himself also had a career year but admittedly played up and down the line up.

Petey has had 5 5+ point games. Draisaitl and Kucherov have had 6. Mackinnon 7. McDavid/Crosby/Malkin have more than 8.

He has 413pts in 407 games. there are only 11 players with a career PPG at the moment in the NHL.

I agree the last 40 games (6g, 17a, 23pts) he’s been dogshit. Tendinitis, contract, mental/confidence etc has played a large part in his current struggles, but the amount of disrespect he’s had by our fanbase is completely and disproportionately disingenuous.

The number of people who think we should trade Pettersson is quite frankly insane.

This is a player, who in a down year last season, still put up 89 points and was top 20 in the league in scoring. All this while playing as you said, with the likes of players like Mikheyev and Lafferty. Petey doesn't even get to play with the best winger on this team.

Meanwhile look at who other top centers get to play with.

Hughes gets to play with Bratt.

Hintz gets to play with Robertson.

Matthews gets to play with Marner.

MacKinnon gets to play with Rantanen.

Barkov gets to play with Tkachuk.

Point gets to play with Kucherov.

McDavid gets to play with Draistaitl.

Every single other All-star calibre center in this league gets to play with an All-star caliber winger.

Meanwhille Petey gets to play with f***ing Lafferty, Mikheyev or Sprong, and people are up in his ass about not being able to produce as well as someone who gest to play with Leon f***ing Draisaitl as a winger.

If you look at last year's line-ups, there's not a single all-star calibre center that has played with a worse set of wingers than Petey had. He's the only center that doesn't get to play with wingers of his own calibre.

It is true that Pettersson has been an excellent two-way player for the Canucks for the majority of his career.

It is also true that since, particularly since the start of last season, the quality of wingers he's had to play with has been very poor.

But I think most rational people are taking those things into account and only criticizing his play from the point it started to fall which is about the final quarter of last season and into the playoffs.

They tried the lotto line for a bit last season, that didn't really work. They put him between Garland and Joshua who made pretty much any center they played with look good, that didn't really work. Small sample size, but Debrusk has looked like the most dynamic offensive player on that line so far. Pettersson plays on the 1st unit powerplay with all our best players and is essentially a non-factor there. The PP almost always runs through Miller and Hughes over the 12M guy and nobody will ever question this because why would you? It just makes sense the way Pettersson has been playing.

The point is: this has everything to do with Pettersson's individual play and nothing to do with his linemates or his history. The other guys that have been mentioned that are at the same pay grade - McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Mackinnon, etc. - you are terrified every time they hop over the boards even if they flanked by two ECHLers. You know that every time they touch the puck, there's a real possibility they do something special. Pettersson is so far away from that level right now, it's scary. I'm not willing to bet right now that he will never be that type of dynamic player ever again, but I also don't blame anyone for worrying about it given it's been almost half a season's worth of games now.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not saying to trade him. Trade him for who? We're stuck with him.

I just find the plethora of excuses humorous. If Hughes gets a contract where he's worth, I'd be totally fine with it. He may have bad games, but he's never been Houdini for periods of time in his career and I only see him getting better and better.

Pettersson's 89 points is a result of actually being elite in the first half of the season when he stockpiled all his points. Just looking at the stats makes him look good on paper, but not when you dig deeper to see he was ineffective for the rest of the season.

Lastly, this isn't his first long stretch of ineffectiveness. He basically pulled a reversal of last season in another season (21-22) where he didn't show up for the first half and then decided to play the 2nd half.

You can blame terrible line mates as to why he's not generating points. But body language, attitude, looking weak on the puck and on the skates.... Literally nothing to do with line mates.

This is a forum to discuss, share opinions, rage. I mean, is Pettersson on HFboards reading this?
Hell, if he is, let's all change our attitudes and make sure we pump his tires up. Need the entire HF boards behind his back so he can finally play better!

His "ineffective" was on pretty much our best 5on5 line still.

He has had two injuries. His wrist and his knee. His slumps have taken place during these hardships.

Sorry if Im taking this allegory too far. This just seems to me like what Vancouver fans do.

The arc of Canuck prospects:
1. Just drafted. Endless potential, can do no wrong.
2. Enters the league. Are the coaches holding his development back?!
3. Signs his first big contract. All his flaws are magnified to the point where that is all people see.
4. Drive him to the airport the bum.

It is true that Pettersson has been an excellent two-way player for the Canucks for the majority of his career.

It is also true that since, particularly since the start of last season, the quality of wingers he's had to play with has been very poor.

But I think most rational people are taking those things into account and only criticizing his play from the point it started to fall which is about the final quarter of last season and into the playoffs.

They tried the lotto line for a bit last season, that didn't really work. They put him between Garland and Joshua who made pretty much any center they played with look good, that didn't really work. Small sample size, but Debrusk has looked like the most dynamic offensive player on that line so far. Pettersson plays on the 1st unit powerplay with all our best players and is essentially a non-factor there. The PP almost always runs through Miller and Hughes over the 12M guy and nobody will ever question this because why would you? It just makes sense the way Pettersson has been playing.

The point is: this has everything to do with Pettersson's individual play and nothing to do with his linemates or his history. The other guys that have been mentioned that are at the same pay grade - McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Mackinnon, etc. - you are terrified every time they hop over the boards even if they flanked by two ECHLers. You know that every time they touch the puck, there's a real possibility they do something special. Pettersson is so far away from that level right now, it's scary. I'm not willing to bet right now that he will never be that type of dynamic player ever again, but I also don't blame anyone for worrying about it given it's been almost half a season's worth of games now.

No where in this post do you mention his knee injury?

 

[kanucks25]

No where in this post do you mention his knee injury?

Hard for anyone to say how much of an effect said injury has had on his play.

What we do know is he hasn't really missed any time because of it and has had a full off-season in between.

If this is going to be a chronic / long-term thing, I doubt the team would have given him the contract they did, unless they botched the diagnosis.

And a knee injury that apparently isn't severe enough to keep him out of the lineup shouldn't hamper his skill level or decision making as much as it has. It's likely that some players have the ability to play their game through injury more than others, but you could argue that's a product of mental fortitude; if Pettersson needs everything to be perfect to perform, that's an indictment.

So overall regarding the injury, there's just a lot of grey area and guesswork to use it as the primary excuse for how relatively poor he's been.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Hard for anyone to say how much of an effect said injury has had on his play.

What we do know is he hasn't really missed any time because of it and has had a full off-season in between.

If this is going to be a chronic / long-term thing, I doubt the team would have given him the contract they did, unless they botched the diagnosis.

And a knee injury that apparently isn't severe enough to keep him out of the lineup shouldn't hamper his skill level or decision making as much as it has. It's likely that some players have the ability to play their game through injury more than others, but you could argue that's a product of mental fortitude; if Pettersson needs everything to be perfect to perform, that's an indictment.

So overall regarding the injury, there's just a lot of grey area and guesswork to use it as the primary excuse for how relatively poor he's been.

Ok.

Agree to disagree.

 

[DFAC]

it's criminal the best they can come up with for pettersson is debrusk or sherwood. of course he looks bad playing with those stiffs

Shouldn't an 11m+ player make those around him better?

 

[credulous]

Shouldn't an 11m+ player make those around him better?

what makes you think he doesn't?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Shouldn't an 11m+ player make those around him better?

Like MacKinnon makes Rantanen?

 

[strattonius]

The linemates argument is stupid. Yes, Petey has had a large collection of lousy wingers over his career. That isn't really what people are observing, though. He doesn't make electric plays, he doesn't create any space and he's almost completely ineffective on the powerplay. And we've seen Pettersson play at that level so we do have a baseline that it exists.

Where is the Pettersson that is the best player on the ice? Where is the Pettersson that dazzles commentators? Where is the thoughtless 160lb soaking wet bull that would win every puck battle? The answer is lost right now. If we didn't have names and #'s on the jerseys Pettersson would be completely unrecognizable. So this isn't a snakebit scenario either.

I'm happy to give even more rope because what choice do we have? But this idea that Pettersson can't be criticized because 'all players go through a slump' is disingenuous. Who here is honestly not worried? It's been brought up countless times - Pettersson is now an 11.6M player. He's one of the big boys now this idea he is mentally fragile lacking confidence right now should seriously concern people.

Whether an injury is still bothering him or he is lacking confidence, both situations are bad news. And anyone that plays it off that we are too hard on little Petey are in complete denial.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

what makes you think he doesn't?

Lindholm playing 2C with Pettersson as 3C in the playoffs, Mikheyev having worst year of career playing with Pety, Hoglander looking more dangerous away from Petey, Boeser having a 40 goal season with Miller away from Petey. They tried everything in the playoffs to get Petey going, even the lotto line looked bad in the playoffs, ultimately they had to break up the Joshua-Lindholm-Garland line and play Lindholm with Pettersson. Not a 11.6M player, not even a 9M player, more like a high skilled project player for the coaching staff who needs to be protected, insulted & carried by complete well rounded players. For the sake of this franchise I hope he turns it around.

 

[strattonius]

Lindholm playing 2C with Pettersson as 3C in the playoffs, Mikheyev having worst year of career playing with Pety, Hoglander looking more dangerous away from Petey, Boeser hitting 40 goals with Miller away from Petey. They tried everything in the playoffs to get Petey going, even the lotto line looked bad in the playoffs, ultimately they had to break up the Joshua-Lindholm-Garland line and play Lindholm with Pettersson. Not a 11.6M player, not even a 9M player, more like a high skilled project player for the coaching staff who needs to be protected, insulted & carried by complete well rounded players.

There's a line between 'I'm not worried about Pettersson' and this post.

Complete nonsense.

 

[DFAC]

what makes you think he doesn't?

By watching how he's been playing? He's been a non factor for most nights and looks to be playing without any confidence. Whenever he has the puck he handles it like a grenade and gets pushed down/falls down

Watching the highlights from his rookie year and his recent play and it looks like 2 completely different players

 

[crowfish]

By watching how he's been playing? He's been a non factor for most nights and looks to be playing without any confidence. Whenever he has the puck he handles it like a grenade and gets pushed down/falls down

Watching the highlights from his rookie year and his recent play and it looks like 2 completely different players

That is because you are watching highlights.... Go watch a full game from his rookie year and you will see many of the same plays that Pettersson would be getting roasted for right now. His current play doesn't even look that different to me from 2022 with his 102 point season, the style is the same, the main difference I see is no chemistry with linemates finishing plays or setting up plays and the low confidence making him overthink certain plays.

 

[pitseleh]

I think Pettersson’s struggles are probably a bit of both bad play and his linemates.

It’s right that no other top player has to carry crap like Mikheyev, Lafferty, etc. like he had to down the stretch last year.

As an aside, it is too bad they couldn’t make it work with Kuzmenko as the two did get elite results when together. Pettersson scored 3.7 P/60 with him and they had ~55% of the goals when on the ice. Pettersson’s defensive results are better without him but not enough to offset the loss in offence.

At the same time, at even strength over his last half season’s worth of games he’s scored at a ~30 point/82 game pace. That’s the production you get from a good middle six forward playing with other middle six players.

 

[Jay26]

The number of people who think we should trade Pettersson is quite frankly insane.

This is a player, who in a down year last season, still put up 89 points and was top 20 in the league in scoring. All this while playing as you said, with the likes of players like Mikheyev and Lafferty. Petey doesn't even get to play with the best winger on this team.

Meanwhile look at who other top centers get to play with.

Hughes gets to play with Bratt.

Hintz gets to play with Robertson.

Matthews gets to play with Marner.

MacKinnon gets to play with Rantanen.

Barkov gets to play with Tkachuk.

Point gets to play with Kucherov.

McDavid gets to play with Draistaitl.

Every single other All-star calibre center in this league gets to play with an All-star caliber winger.

Meanwhille Petey gets to play with f***ing Lafferty, Mikheyev or Sprong, and people are up in his ass about not being able to produce as well as someone who gest to play with Leon f***ing Draisaitl as a winger.

If you look at last year's line-ups, there's not a single all-star calibre center that has played with a worse set of wingers than Petey had. He's the only center that doesn't get to play with wingers of his own calibre.

There's nothing new or shocking about this for a very good centre on a team with another very good centre. Look at who Malkin had to play with for a lot of his career behind Crosby. Same with Draisaitl. McDavid got Nugent-Hopkins and Hyman last year and Draisaitl got Kane and Foegele. Kane's not bad I guess. The point is, unfortunately Pettersson, as good as he is, is the 2nd best C on this team behind Miller so yeah, he's going to get the leftover wingers. At least until he eclipses Miller.

 

[sting101]

I'm gonna reserve too much judgement on him. I think he's earned it. It really sucks though at our apex with this core that EP40 and Demko are unable to make a huge positive impact.

I do wonder what the cap hit would have been if we just let it ride and started negotiations in the off season. Ultimately we paid for 100pt Pete. Some of you scorned me of my belief we should have held him at 10m but ultimately star players hold the hammers so i understand the marketplace pressures

He's 1 of 3 ever Canucks to have over a PPG for his career so there is 2 big issues.

One being that he looks scared of contact and lost assertiveness.

The other being the player that signed was one most anticipated would take a step into the elite category and the truth is he's stepped in the wrong direction

He really just needs to re find himself and play his game with energy and let experience add to his arsenal because the player i've watched since his contract was signed is one that is second guessing himself and trying to be something more and then when it doesn't work being so hard on himself he sulks.

 

[Jay26]

I swear parts of the fanbase are living in completely different worlds. It's kinda surreal. I just can't believe the excuses some of you come up with for this guy. If a player on any other team were playing like this for a long stretch - including the playoffs - on an $11.6M cap hit you'd all be laughing. I'm not even talking about the points here, to be clear. I'm talking about how he plays. I've never seen a superstar player instill so little confidence. He doesn't push the play, he falls down on his ass all the time, his intensity is at pretty much nill throughout every game (again, including the playoffs). He doesn't impose himself on the game in any way shape or form. All this and he's one of the highest paid players in the league.

Again, completely different worlds.

That being said, I do agree 100% with the sentiment that what's done is done - we've signed him and unless we're getting the haul of a lifetime for him it's absolutely not worth trading him - so we may as well support him as much as we can. I just don't think that means we have to pretend that this is anywhere close to good enough. I'm going to continue to be honest about him, even if ultimately I want to support him as a Canuck.