Player Discussion Elias Pettersson Talk | Also Chiropractors, the Medical Staff, and You

[Bertuzzzi44]

delete

 

[Quinning]

Shouldn’t have traded Kuz

They couldn't afford his cap hit anymore.

What do you guys think about the theory that Rick Tocchett’s system hinders Elias Pettersson? When Bruce was behind the bench, Petey thrived offensively and had confidence. He looks like a different player since last January.

There's merit to that theory.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

What scares me right now is that he is really a perennial 75-85 point player that had an outlier 100 point season, and he got paid under the assumption that he would develop further into the 110-120 point range.

Make no mistake, even at 75 points he is a solid player. But that would rightfully put him in the $8.5-9 million per range, and right now he's making 35-40% more than that. Wasted space. You pair that with the OEL buyout for the next few years, and that's a top 6 forward and top 4 defenceman we can't afford to add.

Worst scenario is that he never even regains his PPG form due to injury, and now we have a boat anchor contract that will put the nail in the coffin for many seasons to come.

Not just about the points, what’s more concerning is his 5-on-5 play, big difference in 85 points from O’Rielly/Kopitar/Stone/Barkov vs 85 points from Marner/Petey/Nylander/Drouin

 

[Ernie]

What do you guys think about the theory that Rick Tocchett’s system hinders Elias Pettersson? When Bruce was behind the bench, Petey thrived offensively and had confidence. He looks like a different player since last January.

There are probably a few factors but the eye test says he's got a serious confidence problem right now with the puck on his stick. He's been involved in the play but won't shoot the puck and fumbles his chances very often. He needs to get his mojo back. There are a handful of point blank chances he's had where he's atypically missed the net - the discourse would be much different right now if he had potted those 2-3 goals.

I wouldn't be surprised if the system has limited him some, but he also seems to have gotten a serious case of the yips that have gone to his head. He's not getting points on the powerplay either but from what I've noticed Miller is the guy who keeps turning over pucks, and DeBrusk hasn't really gelled either.

Aside from big goal in game 1 (which the goalie should have had), Miller has been pretty crap so far as well, but isn't getting much attention.

 

[Ernie]

Is there something about being Swedish that brings out the absolute dumbest takes on players?

I remember the Sedins before 2011 were a great litmus test for hockey intelligence. We had a fairly large minority of posters going on and on calling them the sisters, saying they don't care, famously suggesting we let them walk so we can sign Cammalleri and Gaborik in 2009, etc etc.

Pettersson has been struggling, he's clearly really hard on himself, his game is based on precision and instincts, and when he gets down on himself his body language can sag. These are all true.

Here's another thing that is true. There are 15 (FIFTEEN) active players in the NHL who are above a point per game for their entire career and one of them is our 25 year old (none of them are younger than he is) center who will likely win a selke or two in his career.

Is he perfect? No, he's still figuring things out. Christ, he's had a better career than Datsyuk had had by this age and it's not particularly close. Do you guys think that maybe, just maybe, we could remember he's human and let him work his way through the wobbles?

He's an absolute superstar who is struggling, but he'll figure it out and likely go on to be the best forward we have had in our franchise history. And there is a plurality who won't enjoy much of this gift and then, if he magically wins the Hart and we win the cup or whatever you 'need' him to do to justify his contract, there will be mass amnesia about the dumb takes.

Just as there were about the 'trade him' takes about him in 2021 just before he blew up into a hundred point two-way beast, or about Hughes in 2021, etc etc.

Can we just acknowledge he's struggling without the histrionics about how he clearly doesn't give a shit, or will be bought out, or blah blah blah.

And I want to reiterate to the guy whose whole schtick is shit talking Petey and said he'll be bought out by 2028. Want to bet $500.00? I'm happy to bet a couple grand if you like, not because I'm a gambler (I'm not), but because free money is free money.

If you're not willing to take that bet, then you clearly don't believe your own rhetoric so maybe chill out a bit.

There's always a whipping boy. If you'd asked people around here whether they thought Boeser could pot 40 goals last season, they'd have run you off the forum.

As you mentioned, Hughes has taken his turn, Miller has taken his turn, virtually every player has taken their turn as a whipping boy. It's fine to point out and discuss when a player is off his game, but the vitriol is ridiculous, particularly when people start declaring that these professional athletes are somehow bad people.

 

[MS]

It's far more likely a player of Pettersson's caliber and career so far, bounces back then falls off completely.

No argument, and I've said this a bunch of times.

But the question is when? Next week? Past the mid-point of the season with us 5 points out of the playoffs? Next year after he's been the main contributor to blowing another year of our (small) window?

Only after he's traded to a new team/new city?

I think the bolded is absolutely out to lunch.

He's throwing a few hits but he has been absolutely allergic to cutting into the hard areas of the ice where he might take contact, when he has the time/space/opportunity to make a play.

That play in the first period of the last game where he had a half-step on the defender ... and then skated into the corner and took a nothing shot from the goal line has been the norm for a long time now. He's been a pure perimeter player and you can't be a superstar or generate superstar results when you're a pure perimeter player. You need to cut to the middle on the rush, need to go to the paint for dirty points in contained situations.

 

[TruGr1t]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1846943377142829552

 

[Ernie]

What scares me right now is that he is really a perennial 75-85 point player that had an outlier 100 point season, and he got paid under the assumption that he would develop further into the 110-120 point range.

Make no mistake, even at 75 points he is a solid player. But that would rightfully put him in the $8.5-9 million per range, and right now he's making 35-40% more than that. Wasted space. You pair that with the OEL buyout for the next few years, and that's a top 6 forward and top 4 defenceman we can't afford to add.

He didn't get Draisatl money. 100 points is the new point per game with the level of increased scoring we've seen so he should be expected to get near to that.

 

[MS]

There's merit to that theory.

Pettersson scored 110 points in his first 82 games under Rick Tocchet. Literally the most productive 82-game segment of his career.

I don't buy the notion that Tocchet somehow caused him to turn into a 40-point pumpkin after he'd been excelling under him for over a year already.

 

[Peen]

The other thing here is that people seem to be coddling this player.

We all know what Petey looks like when he's going. He's flying in transition and getting past players with ease. So much rush offense. He's moving like crazy on the PP w/ confidence to attack.

I don't think it's worth being like "he's back" "he was marginally better" "he's shown some life getting in on the forecheck" "he's defending well" (He always does)

It's a different worry. Like EP / Miller have both not been driving anything these first few games but one of them just missed pre-season and Hansen just had a hit two weeks ago talking about how that impacts a player. And Miller wasn't a problem playing through shit in the playoffs. He's going to get back into form pretty quickly.

Still don't think there's much point deliberating about all this, especially if there's some sensitivity involved. I said he needed to hit the ground running to avoid the discourse, but I really don't think it's worth getting into until 20-25 games into the season.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

He's throwing a few hits but he has been absolutely allergic to cutting into the hard areas of the ice where he might take contact, when he has the time/space/opportunity to make a play.

That play in the first period of the last game where he had a half-step on the defender ... and then skated into the corner and took a nothing shot from the goal line has been the norm for a long time now. He's been a pure perimeter player and you can't be a superstar or generate superstar results when you're a pure perimeter player. You need to cut to the middle on the rush, need to go to the paint for dirty points in contained situations.

He's basically the Mitch Marner of the west. He can produce points based on his hockey sense, skill and high TOI but has become that perimeter player you speak of.

 

[mathonwy]

Shouldn’t have traded Kuz

This.

Petey was at his happiest since the Tanev days when he was putting up points with Kuz.

The other thing here is that people seem to be coddling this player.

We all know what Petey looks like when he's going. He's flying in transition and getting past players with ease. So much rush offense. He's moving like crazy on the PP w/ confidence to attack.

I don't think it's worth being like "he's back" "he was marginally better" "he's shown some life getting in on the forecheck" "he's defending well" (He always does)

It's a different worry. Like EP / Miller have both not been driving anything these first few games but one of them just missed pre-season and Hansen just had a hit two weeks ago talking about how that impacts a player. And Miller wasn't a problem playing through shit in the playoffs. He's going to get back into form pretty quickly.

Still don't think there's much point deliberating about all this, especially if there's some sensitivity involved. I said he needed to hit the ground running to avoid the discourse, but I really don't think it's worth getting into until 20-25 games into the season.

Maybe he needs to be coddled…..

He’s gonna be with us for a very long time.

Just saying.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

It's a different worry. Like EP / Miller have both not been driving anything these first few games but one of them just missed pre-season and Hansen just had a hit two weeks ago talking about how that impacts a player. And Miller wasn't a problem playing through shit in the playoffs. He's going to get back into form pretty quickly.

Still don't think there's much point deliberating about all this, especially if there's some sensitivity involved. I said he needed to hit the ground running to avoid the discourse, but I really don't think it's worth getting into until 20-25 games into the season.

Miller was incredible in the playoffs, has been pretty good in these 3 games, had a Gordie Howe Hatrick the first game. No one is concerned at all with Miller, he’s a warrior.

Pettersson was terrible in the playoffs, the coaching staff challenged him to have the best training off-season of his life, yet nothing changed, and he has looked terrible in these first 3 games. This is concerning.

 

[thecupismine]

I think if people used the word tentative instead of effort there would be a lot more agreement with what’s going on.

Petey easily could be trying in his mind, but he’s in his head which is causing him to wait 1-2 seconds longer than he usually does to make a play. That closes off lanes to the inside, cuts off his shooting lane, and his space to stick handle out of trouble.

When you’re at the highest level of play, being that tentative in your decision making is the difference between elite and third line guy. Petey more than any other Canuck in recent memory gets stuck in his head for really long, extended stretches. When he’s on its holy crap, and when he’s off it’s like “what’s going on????”

I’m not sure what’s going to shock him out of it, but he and the coaching staff need to figure it out as the team can’t contend without him.

 

[Kryten]

Theres too many coaches these days. NHL teams are filled with middle men micro managing everything about players. The skill level is the highest its ever been but creativity and fun seems to be coached out of players.

 

[Peen]

Maybe he needs to be coddled…..

He’s gonna be with us for a very long time.

Just saying.

That part I actually agree with. He’s here for a long time. This isn’t a situation where he could be gone very easily like when they were trying to deal Miller & almost did to Pittsburgh, NYR

Miller was incredible in the playoffs, has been pretty good in these 3 games, had a Gordie Howe Hatrick the first game. No one is concerned at all with Miller, he’s a warrior.

Pettersson was terrible in the playoffs, the coaching staff challenged him to have the best training off-season of his life, yet nothing changed, and he has looked terrible in these first 3 games. This is concerning.

You are saying the same things I said. My overall point is that I don’t think coddling EP nor do I think losing our minds ab it makes sense.

He’s here and he’s not leaving. He’s not close to what we’ve seen at his best.

 

[TruGr1t]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1846951807760977959

 

[theguardianII]

He’s here and he’s not leaving. He’s not close to what we’ve seen at his best.

If he stays like this he could eclipse the Eriksson debacle.

Just occurred to me, a bad knee and he is taking extra practice/skating? On a bad knee?

 

[MS]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1846951807760977959

After getting an absolutely astounding free pass from fans/media here for his playoff performance last year, people are noticing the sample size now and the pressure is only going to go up.

 

[theguardianII]

With the issues with the defence play and depth, being strangled by the cap, the fact they did trade fan favourite Horvat is a EP trade that far fetched?

If they made a deal "like" "for" "includes" a player like Jireck, how much of a difference is that?
Defence is better, stopping a few goals
vs
An 11 million dollar player that stops a few goals because scoring certainly isn't in that conversation right now.

The question might be when not if.
Sure he has diminished stats but that could be attributed to the pressure cooker of Vancouver and they could say the coach whether true or not.
They can't just hold out for years waiting to see.

4 or 5 games getting a couple of points doesn't wash away the stink of the last 40+ games. I am sure if he did score in those few the media would start selling his challenge for the scoring title in a heart beat after his 3rd goal/point. "He's Back"

So far it is look at that shot, but he missed the net, look at that pass, but it is from the FO dot to the dman with nobody between, look at that shot block, from a 2/3 goal scoring dman. But he is playing defence, but they signed him to 11.6 mil to score points

Game by game until traded IMO.
If they have ANY fantasies of making the playoffs they need the cap space. With cap space they can do anything. The nice thing is they might be able to target a good NHL player, AAA prospect and a pick. IMO a major win if they can get that with the cap space being the premium.

I know there is a tank thread and I thought it was too early yet and it might be but if they only win 3 games in October then the wheel should start to be turned. These early picks CAN step right into the league, there is no reason to wait until they have milked every ounce of game out of any of the better NHL players.
EP gets a 1rst this year, Boeser maybe a 1rst this year, Demko? Not playing much anyway. If they could get 3 1rst's this year they would have enough to maybe go after a top player, like Marner or ?

 

[Svencouver]

I posted this on the mainboards, but I think he just has the sort of psychological/mental profile of someone susceptible to burnout. A lot of young, gifted people are like this. You're either super motivated to do something, obsessively improving at it, or you just hit the wall and have no desire to do the very same thing at all after that period of hyperfixation is over.

I think one of the things that defines many generational talents is that sort of single-minded devotion and obsession with their sport, where they'll never get bored of it or lose motivation, even if theyre the best at it. I don't think Pettersson is that type of guy. I think Pettersson has been experiencing that sort of loss of passion for the game and general burnout, and the contract situation and the pressure and scrutiny of being "that guy" who needs to perform really gets to him in a way that it doesnt for someone like Hughes.

He really needs a sports psychologist if he doesn't have one. Im kind of surprised that this isn't a more common issue in the sport; I guess being in the NHL sort of already selects for people that don't get burned out from hockey, but still. You do see this happen from time to time in other sports, at least.

 

[Svencouver]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1846943377142829552

I think its also extremely obvious that the contract and being paid like a star player is a massive psychological distraction and mental weight on his shoulders. Like, he was so clearly avoidant about signing it and put it off forever, talking very candidly in interviews about not wanting to think about it until the season was over, etc. etc. I think there's clearly some anxiety with living up to his contract and some guilt with potentially not doing so; and anxiety and guilt are self-fulfilling prophecies that will only make things spiral over time.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

After getting an absolutely astounding free pass from fans/media here for his playoff performance last year, people are noticing the sample size now and the pressure is only going to go up.

You have got to be joking.

 

[MS]

You have got to be joking.

It was the worst playoff performance relative to salary/expectation in franchise history. He was given a monumental free pass for it. Compare the treatment a guy like Marner has received for playing miles better than that in Toronto vs. Pettersson having the whole building chanting for him to 'support him' and 'get him going'.

 

[kanucks25]

The whataboutism is honestly baffling.

Why are some so desperately trying to find something or someone else to blame other than the player himself lol.

He's being paid like a TOP 5 player. If he's not going to perform like it (and in this case, nowhere close to it) there's going to be heat and justifiably so. Simple as that.