Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[MS]

Or makes things up.

Do you want me to bump that discussion where you falsely accused me of making stuff up but had literally lied about several things or outright invented stats in the same discussion?

You're a piece of work.

 

[mriswith]

Not understanding math would mean that I had actually seen the average velocity numbers. Where are you getting those? They aren't on the official NHL Edge stats webpage that I use.

Yes they are. Scroll down.

He's basically stopped doing PP one-time slappers which he used to fire high/wide constantly, to everyone's frustration. We know the team is trying for high-percentage shots and whether that change is coach or player-enforced I have no idea but it would definitely skew the numbers.

This is a super weak response and I am left seriously wondering if you've even been watching the games this season. It's been nothing but muffins this season and the one time he took a vintage wrist shot, he was out several games for injury literally minutes later.

 

[MS]

He believes he is 100% right on every single topic. When presented with contrary evidence (or worse, his takes are actually proven wrong!), he ignores it completely or just stops replying.

I've literally sat here and tried to respond to every single post that has disagreed with me to the point where tantrum guy accused me of spamming the thread.

And I admit I was wrong here all the time - I got Desharnais all kinds of wrong as a recent example and have discussed that repeatedly.

In the case of Pettersson, the guy has like 6 ESG in his last 82 games for $11 million and the team is repeatedly calling him out for his poor play. I'm posting something basically in line with the 'official' management viewpoint and you guys are getting absurdly triggered by it and presenting a totally illogical/impossible version of events to justify the player's poor play. I don't really know what else to say.

 

[Ernie]

Was looking at some numbers I thought were interesting. Prior to 22/23 Pettersson averaged ~2.35 P/60 at even strength. Since Kuzmenko was traded he’s at 2.1 P/60. That’s about a half point per game pace, and the difference between before and after is only about 4 points per season. So this is not a huge anomaly compared to most of his career, but is compared to the ~3.8/60 he scored when playing with Kuzmenko.

On the PP his G/60 are basically at his career average, but his A/60 are at about half his career average. My gut was that he wasn’t getting as many shot opportunities but the true problem is he isn’t making plays the way he used to. His shots on goal are only down by about one every ten games or so.

From 21/22 to 23/24 like everyone Pettersson had some pretty big splits with and without Hughes at even strength - 57% CF with, 49% without. But this year unsurprisingly it is more pronounced - 57% with, 43% without.

I'd be curious what the quality of his linemates was during that period - for a good portion of the pre-Kuzmenko time he had Miller and Boeser on his wings. DeBrusk is better than Mikheyev but the lack of finishing around him could partially explain his lower assists.

Do you want me to bump that discussion where you falsely accused me of making stuff up but had literally lied about several things or outright invented stats in the same discussion?

You're a piece of work.

I mean, sure? If you think that absolute meltdown on your part when you were proven to be full of shit makes you look better, go right ahead. Like seriously mind boggling that you'd even bring it up.

Nobody thought twice when people called out the pauser kid for his unhealthy obsession with the Sedins. At least he seemed to have a sense of humour about it and took his lumps instead of acting like a whiny little bitch.

 

[MS]

Yes they are. Scroll down.


This is a super weak response and I am left seriously wondering if you've even been watching the games this season. It's been nothing but muffins this season and the one time he took a vintage wrist shot, he was out several games for injury literally minutes later.

So they are. Useful.

I've watched 40/42 games, for the record.

What even is your narrative here? His poor play/poor shots are supposedly due to his knee tendonitis, but shooting a puck ... caused him an upper body injury? And that's somehow connected?

What I see from Pettersson re: shooting is that he's using his slapshot way less. I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's that he's hurt, or that the coaches have said not to and to focus on higher-percentage shots (we do see him ridiculous over-passing to set up 'perfect' plays when he does get in good situations), or that he's lost confidence in his slapshot, that he isn't getting into positions to use it, or if the PP just isn't designed the same way for it to be used as a weapon. Or some combination. Using your slapshot less will cause your average velocity to drop. When he's used his slapshot, it looks pretty normal to me. Velocity is normal.

And again, the notion that knee tendonitis would ruin his shot velocity when the wrist injury blamed for his 21-22 struggles had zero effect doesn't really line up or make sense.

 

[MS]

I mean, sure? If you think that absolute meltdown on your part when you were proven to be full of shit makes you look better, go right ahead. Like seriously mind boggling that you'd even bring it up.

Nobody thought twice when people called out the pauser kid for his unhealthy obsession with the Sedins. At least he seemed to have a sense of humour about it and took his lumps instead of acting like a whiny little bitch.

Is that really what you think happened there? Seek help, man.

You straight up accused me of lying about the Edge data. I backed up my claims. Nothing I said was 'made up' or a lie. You then bailed on that line of accusations and posted an It's Always Sunny meme and disappeared. And invented a scoring slump for Conor Garland that didn't exist, and were the one actually posting totally false data.

You realize how f***ing weird your response is right now to me saying a player has compete issues, right?

 

[sandwichbird2023]

What I find strange is that Petterson actually went to management and said he wanted to stay, after all that happened.

This is the same guy that for years want the team to prove to him they are worthy of him, that even during the out of the blue division winning season has to be "threatened" with a trade to extend (all the while looking like he was miserable because somebody forced nearly $100m onto him).
It makes no sense to me, now that he has a "get out of jail free" card, he refuse to play it? Like sure he might get traded to Buffalo, but at least he won't get bullied there and, at least for this season, it's not like he is leaving a winning team anyways.

He had always made "playing for a winning team" such a key issue, yet now he has a chance to goto a better team potentially (that handshake deal with the team surely will give him some say), and he has already secured his bag, suddenly playing for a winner isn't so important anymore? I don't get this guy.

I really hope that Reddit guy is right and tendinitis takes a year to heal, because we are like right at the 1 year anniversary and we desperately need him to play at least like a $8m player, even if he can't get to the $11.6m level. I hate seeing these 2 (Petey and Miller) wasting a Hart worthy season from Hughes because they don't like each other.

 

[Ernie]

Is that really what you think happened there? Seek help, man.

You straight up accused me of lying about the Edge data. I backed up my claims. Nothing I said was 'made up' or a lie. You then bailed on that line of accusations and posted an It's Always Sunny meme and disappeared. And invented a scoring slump for Conor Garland that didn't exist, and were the one actually posting totally false data.

You realize how f***ing weird your response is right now to me saying a player has compete issues, right?

LOL, nice editorial there. Didn't you say you were going to bump the posts? Did you conveniently forget that you 100% fabricated the idea Pettersson refused to play with other players around when Benning was fired (when in reality he was helping push Benning out the door). You also said his 2022 Edge data was as bad as season, which is completely and provably untrue. When called out, you totally lost your shit (especially over that IASIP meme). That was a meltdown of epic proportions, we've never seen anything like it on these boards.

Look dude, if you are so bothered by my comments, why are constantly responding? Do everyone a favour and return yourself to that healthy place somewhere away from this thread. If not, we may have to trade you to the Rangers forum before you stroke out.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I've literally sat here and tried to respond to every single post that has disagreed with me to the point where tantrum guy accused me of spamming the thread.

And I admit I was wrong here all the time - I got Desharnais all kinds of wrong as a recent example and have discussed that repeatedly.

In the case of Pettersson, the guy has like 6 ESG in his last 82 games for $11 million and the team is repeatedly calling him out for his poor play. I'm posting something basically in line with the 'official' management viewpoint and you guys are getting absurdly triggered by it and presenting a totally illogical/impossible version of events to justify the player's poor play. I don't really know what else to say.

Management is calling out Pettersson's play due to a lack of preparation.

Pettersson has chosen to ignore or subvert management's perception of his injuries, which have resulted in his play.

They are misaligned, and so to are the opinions of the posters here. The logic holds.

I could go on about your frequency of being wrong, but I'm not going to here and I don't think anyone else should either. There is time enough for all of this in the offseason. (Looking at you @Ernie)

For now, Pettersson is here and will be this team's 1C. We all should hope he bounces back, or it's good night on the season.

 

[mriswith]

So they are. Useful.

I've watched 40/42 games, for the record.

What even is your narrative here? His poor play/poor shots are supposedly due to his knee tendonitis, but shooting a puck ... caused him an upper body injury? And that's somehow connected?

What I see from Pettersson re: shooting is that he's using his slapshot way less. I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's that he's hurt, or that the coaches have said not to and to focus on higher-percentage shots (we do see him ridiculous over-passing to set up 'perfect' plays when he does get in good situations), or that he's lost confidence in his slapshot, that he isn't getting into positions to use it, or if the PP just isn't designed the same way for it to be used as a weapon. Or some combination. Using your slapshot less will cause your average velocity to drop. When he's used his slapshot, it looks pretty normal to me. Velocity is normal.

And again, the notion that knee tendonitis would ruin his shot velocity when the wrist injury blamed for his 21-22 struggles had zero effect doesn't really line up or make sense.

What is my narrative? As I've told you many times now, unlike you I do not have a dogmatic opinion on the exact cause of his ongoing issues and I'm not trying to build a narrative,

Building a narrative is how you watch a player drop from the 91st percentile to the 50th percentile in shot velocity and end up posting "Absolute drivel!!! Zero sense!! His shot is just fine!!!" And believe the player shooting constant muffins was really in the 94th percentile for velocity of NHL'ers this year.

In fact this entire EP argument going back a year now started with you convincing everyone it was 100% in his head and me absolutely convinced that there's no way that's all there was to it and I find it amazing that a year later we got a public statement from the player confirming injury to the point of still screwing with his offseason, we have edge data showing that the top end of his skating and shooting is gone and apparently you're still totally convinced in the same opinion you had a year ago before all the new info came out.

I don't know why it's happening. I've never said it's okay either, he needs to figure it out. I just don't believe a player can completely lose the top end of two previously dominant physical attributes purely because of a lack of effort/compete while that player is defensively engaged, blocking shots and diving to break up plays. Even the stretches this year where people think he "turned it on" his physical attributes still looked the same, which is precisely why I posted in the middle of his heater with Miller out that I didn't expect it to last, and that has turned out to be backed up by the edge data.

 

[MS]

LOL, nice editorial there. Didn't you say you were going to bump the posts? Did you conveniently forget that you 100% fabricated the idea Pettersson refused to play with other players around when Benning was fired (when in reality he was helping push Benning out the door). You also said his 2022 Edge data was as bad as season, which is completely and provably untrue. When called out, you totally lost your shit (especially over that IASIP meme). That was a meltdown of epic proportions, we've never seen anything like it on these boards.

Look dude, if you are so bothered by my comments, why are constantly responding? Do everyone a favour and return yourself to that healthy place somewhere away from this thread. If not, we may have to trade you to the Rangers forum before you stroke out.

Player Discussion Post in thread 'Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil'

Dec 16, 2024

The Canucks don't have a 2nd defence pair, full stop.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. The numbers and the eye test do not lie.

The bottom two pairs are the worst that I have seen as a Canucks fan, and that's saying something.

Of course they're bad.

But they aren't an excuse for an $11 million player to be this bad. Again, Conor Garland plays a lower percentage of his ES TOI with Hughes than Pettersson does but he's somehow found a way to look fantastic this year.

Pettersson also played a roughly similar % of his TOI with Hughes back in 22-23 when he scored 100 points, and...

• MS

• 

We were having a discussion. You lost your shit, started resorting to personal attacks and accusing me of being a liar about all kinds of stuff when you in fact were the person posting wildly inaccurate stuff about Conor Garland. I backed up my claims. You posted a meme, put laughing emojis on everything, put your tail between your legs and left.

Are you actually calling this single sentence the biggest meltdown in the history of HFBoards?

But then you post an IASIP meme and pretend that it's just totally OK you called me a liar?

Like, your recollection of that exchange isn't even remotely what actually happened. Again, weird.

Amusingly, you're inventing things again because you can look through that whole discussion and I never once remotely said 'his 24-25 data was as bad as 2022'. I said the top speed was also way down in 21-22 (it was) and that the speed bursts were down in a ratio we don't know relative to 1st half/2nd half (they were).

On the Pettersson thing I actually did sort that later. There are a few people here who PM me inside stuff from time to time and it came from one of them who has a friend who works for the team. After several years I knew I had heard similar stuff before but got that confused with a media report. The poster in question is one of the more prominent/credible people here but the report is 3rd hand. Take it for what you will, which I assume will be continuing to insist I lied.

I'm pretty comfortable here. You're the one 'stroking out'.

 

[Icebreakers]

What I find strange is that Petterson actually went to management and said he wanted to stay, after all that happened.

This is the same guy that for years want the team to prove to him they are worthy of him, that even during the out of the blue division winning season has to be "threatened" with a trade to extend (all the while looking like he was miserable because somebody forced nearly $100m onto him).
It makes no sense to me, now that he has a "get out of jail free" card, he refuse to play it? Like sure he might get traded to Buffalo, but at least he won't get bullied there and, at least for this season, it's not like he is leaving a winning team anyways.

He had always made "playing for a winning team" such a key issue, yet now he has a chance to goto a better team potentially (that handshake deal with the team surely will give him some say), and he has already secured his bag, suddenly playing for a winner isn't so important anymore? I don't get this guy.

I really hope that Reddit guy is right and tendinitis takes a year to heal, because we are like right at the 1 year anniversary and we desperately need him to play at least like a $8m player, even if he can't get to the $11.6m level. I hate seeing these 2 (Petey and Miller) wasting a Hart worthy season from Hughes because they don't like each other.

Cause he knows hes not good anymore. If he goes to a "good" team hes gonna screw their chances up with his contract lol which will bring more negativity and pressure from the media.