Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - A Forward Who Scores

[PuckMunchkin]

Ya I think he’s developed tendinitis of the soul.

There is obviously a big mental aspect to his slump.

But edge data on his skating speed doesnt lie.

 

[BluesyShoes]

Disagree.

Just the medical staff needs to be revamped.

But we wont get anywhere with this discussion so lets leave it.

Not to beat a dead horse as I am not totally following this discussion, but didn't Allvin fire the medical and training staff when he came in?

Or are you saying the performance over the past 2-3 years is bad enough to warrant an overhaul?

 

[credulous]

Not to beat a dead horse as I am not totally following this discussion, but didn't Allvin fire the medical and training staff when he came in?

Or are you saying the performance over the past 2-3 years is bad enough to warrant an overhaul?

they hired the group that was largely let go in the wake of the pearson/boeser injuries

 

[BluesyShoes]

they hired the group that was largely let go in the wake of the pearson/boeser injuries

pardon me? they hired a group that was largely let go?

I guess Dr. Bill Regan was named head team physician in 2022, but he has been with the team as a team physician for over 20 years. He seems extremely qualified, unless he is too busy as an associate professor at UBC.

He's rated highly by his patients at least: Rate MDs

They hired some additional doctors with that promotion, who are also clinical instructors at UBC Sports Medicine. I'm not sure who they could hire that are more qualified, researched, and equipped than that. The only thing would be how much time they can afford.

I'm not sure who else might be suggested as a better option, really.

 

[Jay26]

Disagree.

Just the medical staff needs to be revamped.

But we wont get anywhere with this discussion so lets leave it.

No, many more people would need to be for not lifting a finger to investigate further.

 

[credulous]

pardon me? they hired a group that was largely let go?

I guess Dr. Bill Regan was named head team physician in 2022, but he has been with the team as a team physician for over 20 years. He seems extremely qualified, unless he is too busy as an associate professor at UBC.

i'm not talking about the surgeon the team uses. they are just outside consultants the team uses for acute medical issues. i'm talking about the staff that handle the day to day including most routine treatment and rehab. the people listed here (under human performance):

Official Vancouver Canucks Website | Vancouver Canucks

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

the group in place now are largely the second group jr/alvin brought in. the first group were hired in 2022 and are (almost) all gone now:

Canucks add new medical and strength and conditioning staff

The Canucks have hired a pair of chiropractors, an athletic therapist and a strength and conditioning coach to fill out their human performance department.

theprovince.com

alex trinca and roman kaszczji were both brought in last year after the pearson rehab debacle went down

 

[xtr3m]

I think he has hurt feelings over the contract negotiations when the team gave him the Carolina ultimatum. It's affected his play. Kinda like when you have a break up and then try and get back together but it's never the same after. This is Pettersson.

Yeah, well, he was also saying he wants to compete and be on a team that’s competitive. Was that all just a negotiation tactic?

Maybe that whole process, the business side of hockey, did get to him. It used to be fun but now it’s just work kind of thing.

 

[strattonius]

Yeah, well, he was also saying he wants to compete and be on a team that’s competitive. Was that all just a negotiation tactic?

Maybe that whole process, the business side of hockey, did get to him. It used to be fun but now it’s just work kind of thing.

Im laughing that the business side of things could cause Pettersson all this inner turmoil while he is still guaranteed 92.8 million through that negotiation. Imagine arbitration with this fragile of an ego.

I think this whole thing is irritating. 'Let's get our 12 million dollar player going!' Unbelievablly stupid amounts of pandering and excuses. This player should have been locked in on the first day of training camp.

 

[BluesyShoes]

i'm not talking about the surgeon the team uses. they are just outside consultants the team uses for acute medical issues. i'm talking about the staff that handle the day to day including most routine treatment and rehab. the people listed here (under human performance):

Official Vancouver Canucks Website | Vancouver Canucks

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

the group in place now are largely the second group jr/alvin brought in. the first group were hired in 2022 and are (almost) all gone now:

Canucks add new medical and strength and conditioning staff

The Canucks have hired a pair of chiropractors, an athletic therapist and a strength and conditioning coach to fill out their human performance department.

theprovince.com

alex trinca and roman kaszczji were both brought in last year after the pearson rehab debacle went down

Ah k gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not to beat a dead horse as I am not totally following this discussion, but didn't Allvin fire the medical and training staff when he came in?

Or are you saying the performance over the past 2-3 years is bad enough to warrant an overhaul?

Jason Dickinsons undiagnosed broken hand.
Pearsons situation is kinda just bad luck IMO. Every surgery comes with a risk of infection.
The insanity that took place with Mikheyevs knee. This is the most glaring one.
Petterssons knee. It must have been misdiagnosed or they would have rested and rehabbed it way before the playoffs were so close.

These are the glaring ones that come to mind.

I would have previously added the weird handling of Demko's injury but it turned out to be a really unique case with not much previous data to work on so I would not hold that against them as much. Buts not exactly a win in their record either.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Jason Dickinsons undiagnosed broken hand.
Pearsons situation is kinda just bad luck IMO. Every surgery comes with a risk of infection.
The insanity that took place with Mikheyevs knee. This is the most glaring one.
Petterssons knee. It must have been misdiagnosed or they would have rested and rehabbed it way before the playoffs were so close.

These are the glaring ones that come to mind.

I would have previously added the weird handling of Demko's injury but it turned out to be a really unique case with not much previous data to work on so I would not hold that against them as much. Buts not exactly a win in their record either.

This goes back years, all the way to Cody Hodgson.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This goes back years, all the way to Cody Hodgson.

Yeah.

Im not sure if there are still personnel being employed from that era and was too lazy to check.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Elias Pettersson's Agents Break Silence to Address Early Season Criticism

The agents for Vancouver Canucks forward Elias Pettersson are reportedly not worried about their client's slow start to the 2024-25 NHL season.

www.canucksdaily.com

I bet they'd be worried if this was a contract year. What do they have to worry about now? They got their money.

 

[theguardianII]

Im laughing that the business side of things could cause Pettersson all this inner turmoil while he is still guaranteed 92.8 million through that negotiation. Imagine arbitration with this fragile of an ego.

I think this whole thing is irritating. 'Let's get our 12 million dollar player going!' Unbelievablly stupid amounts of pandering and excuses. This player should have been locked in on the first day of training camp.

Inner turmoil and 92.8 million. Sometimes there might be a reason besides just money a player doesn't want to sign early. Pettersson did say he wanted to be on a contender and maybe he wasn't sold on this team once they started dismantling his line putting more pressure on him individually to produce. Maybe.

Maybe he listened to other Swedes/Euros' about playing for Tocchet and wasn't convinced.

Maybe he did crumble to management, social media and the sports shows constantly pressuring him to sign.

Maybe Allvin made promises and has broke them.

Maybe it is post concussion syndrome.

Maybe he asked for a trade to a specific team and Carolina was on his least wanted, he would have been the only Swede there.

Whatever it maybe was, BUT IMO if he wanted to stay here, really liked it here he always knew he would get a top dollar offer, right from the end of the previous summer but he was resisting for most of a year.

There is a problem though and social media isn't going to fix it.
His game is so different now.
Could it be paralysis by analysis? Tocchet keeps saying "get his feet moving" which is a negative in Tocchet speak. The same as he did with Kuz, OEL, Mik (but always did add about enough time after surgery but also talked about playing with pain).

Jason Dickinsons undiagnosed broken hand.
Pearsons situation is kinda just bad luck IMO. Every surgery comes with a risk of infection.
The insanity that took place with Mikheyevs knee. This is the most glaring one.
Petterssons knee. It must have been misdiagnosed or they would have rested and rehabbed it way before the playoffs were so close.

These are the glaring ones that come to mind.

I would have previously added the weird handling of Demko's injury but it turned out to be a really unique case with not much previous data to work on so I would not hold that against them as much. Buts not exactly a win in their record either.

Pettersson's knee has never been diagnosed. That was admitted to. Allvin didn't know anything about it, he admitted that at the end of year media scrum and Tocchet just flippantly said tendonitis or something.
This is something the agent would HAVE to disclose in negotiations.
If Tocchet did know then he was/or is guilty of forcing him to injure himself more each game. Tendonitis does get better by repeatedly exercising the injury, rest or if really bad then surgery is the only way to recover. It is a progressive type injury meaning it keeps getting worse until treated.
ANYBODY that has had Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (tendonitis) knows

The Ian Clark stuff may have been an internal power thing

WHATEVER THE REASONS!

He isn't the same, there is something off and maybe changing locations would/could eliminate two or three possible sources of pressure.

Just remember it was Allvin that gave him that contract.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Elias Pettersson's Agents Break Silence to Address Early Season Criticism

The agents for Vancouver Canucks forward Elias Pettersson are reportedly not worried about their client's slow start to the 2024-25 NHL season.

www.canucksdaily.com

I bet they'd be worried if this was a contract year. What do they have to worry about now? They got their money.

Like... not being happy with... how he is performing?

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Like... not being happy with... how he is performing?

But why would they care about how he's performing now? Their goal is to maximize his income, and by doing that, they maximum their own income.

They've done their job.

 

[JT Milker]

The fact the team has chiropractors on the payroll is wild.

 

[nowhereman]

Jason Dickinsons undiagnosed broken hand.
Pearsons situation is kinda just bad luck IMO. Every surgery comes with a risk of infection.
The insanity that took place with Mikheyevs knee. This is the most glaring one.
Petterssons knee. It must have been misdiagnosed or they would have rested and rehabbed it way before the playoffs were so close.

These are the glaring ones that come to mind.

I would have previously added the weird handling of Demko's injury but it turned out to be a really unique case with not much previous data to work on so I would not hold that against them as much. Buts not exactly a win in their record either.

At this point, is it just Canadian doctors (or doctors) in general? I went years being misdiagnosed with "stress" before it turned out to be a rather obvious connective tissue disorder. Not to mention, I had a routine L5/S1 discectomy that was botched, which resulted in a dural tear that doctors tried to cover-up for months (risking severe bacterial meningitis). My grandfather died because his GP ignored his gastroenterologist's recommendation of a monthly CBC and didn't notice his stomach bleeding, resulting in rapid heart failure. My aunt was misdiagnosed with chiari malformation for many years before they realized it was dementia. And just this last week alone, my father-in-law's pancreas surgery was botched and resulted in a necrotizing of his colon that required partial removal.

The Canucks appear to have troubles with their medical staff but this has now been over multiple regimes/management groups. This seems to be par for the course with medicine.

 

[Kryten]

The fact the team has chiropractors on the payroll is wild.

These are hockey players. Most havent gotten a real education since grade 4-6, and grew up with a silver spoon

 

[sting101]

The fact the team has chiropractors on the payroll is wild.

Do you not think that functional performance can sometimes be assisted by corrective alignment? Maybe i'm wrong here but i doubt a team of top tier medical professionals doesn't look beyond just come into my office so i can crack your back every day

I have an athletic performance physiotherapist that is certified for chiropractic care that does muscle treatment and mildish "not twist crack" manipulation to put my sacrum back into alignment. Usually provides instant relief that allows me to get back to normal activities quickly vs clamped muscles defending an area that may take 3-7 days.

Top NFL teams have chiropractic certified staff. It's just another tool in the tool box for impact sports treatment not necessarily all they do. Integrated care is pretty commonplace.

 

[mriswith]

Don’t think the Canucks should trade him what so ever. I think they should let him rest his knee because it’s clearly causing the issue with skating speed declining and him not being able to get power on his shot like he normally can.

The decline from when he’s at his best speed and shot power wise compared to now. His defense has actually gotten better so it’s not an effort issue with him.


View attachment 925137View attachment 925138

I don't know how anyone can look at this and not think injuries are a factor.

Forget the skating for a mintue, the shot data alone is nuts. He loves scoring goals and took a lot of pride in his shot coming into the league. 24 shots to 9 in the 90+ mph range? 86 to 9 in the 80+?

I can see attributing the shots per 60 drop to any number of factors but where'd all the power go?

 

[strattonius]

The fact the team has chiropractors on the payroll is wild.

Are you of the belief that chiropractic care is fake or something? I don't get the question or the likes.

Do you not think that functional performance can sometimes be assisted by corrective alignment? Maybe i'm wrong here but i doubt a team of top tier medical professionals doesn't look beyond just come into my office so i can crack your back every day

I have an athletic performance physiotherapist that is certified for chiropractic care that does muscle treatment and mildish "not twist crack" manipulation to put my sacrum back into alignment. Usually provides instant relief that allows me to get back to normal activities quickly vs clamped muscles defending an area that may take 3-7 days.

Top NFL teams have chiropractic certified staff. It's just another tool in the tool box for impact sports treatment not necessarily all they do. Integrated care is pretty commonplace.

The conspiracies of our fraudulent medical team apparently runs as deep as chiropractic care being fake now.

 

[Javaman]

Do you not think that functional performance can sometimes be assisted by corrective alignment? Maybe i'm wrong here but i doubt a team of top tier medical professionals doesn't look beyond just come into my office so i can crack your back every day

I have an athletic performance physiotherapist that is certified for chiropractic care that does muscle treatment and mildish "not twist crack" manipulation to put my sacrum back into alignment. Usually provides instant relief that allows me to get back to normal activities quickly vs clamped muscles defending an area that may take 3-7 days.

Top NFL teams have chiropractic certified staff. It's just another tool in the tool box for impact sports treatment not necessarily all they do. Integrated care is pretty commonplace.

To quote the NIH: The core concepts of chiropractic, subluxation and spinal manipulation, are not based on sound science.

Plus, chiropractors have a high rate of anti-vaxx beliefs compared to the general population, but especially compared to medical professionals. Seems like they are the last batch of people you'd want to entrust your health too. Especially if you are running a billion+ company that is utterly dependent on the health of your most important employees.

 

[Javaman]

Are you of the belief that chiropractic care is fake or something? I don't get the question or the likes.



The conspiracies of our fraudulent medical team apparently runs as deep as chiropractic care being fake now.

You're aware that the general consensus of the medical community is that chiropracty is based on pseudo-science?

This is a polite way of saying it's based on bullshit.