Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - A Forward Who Scores

[MarkusNaslund19]

1. I never said he 'didn't care'. My belief is that he doesn't handle adversity well, gets lost in his own head and makes himself miserable, and then shuts down and stops competing.

2. Yes, if you aren't competing you won't go fast.

3. You didn't answer my question. Do you actually think that if the team superstar $11.6 million player was actually hurt, that the team would be treating it like this? Actively scoffing at the notion he was hurt? Not resting him for game 82 last year with the other injured players? Coaches calling him out? Management trying to get the leadership group of the team to work on getting him sorted?

4. This is the 3rd time this has happened and he's stopped competing for a large sample size of games. He wasn't injured the other two times either.

5. EVEN IF HE IS HURT IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you're an $11 million NHL player and you have a minor knock, you'd better still f***ing show up and compete and be effective. JT Miller is hurt a hell of a lot worse than whatever Pettersson has or doesn't have right now, and he has 9 points through 8 games. Basically every superstar player in the NHL has been banged up at times and still shown up and competed and produced. If this is what happens to Pettersson due to a minor knee issue, it's f***ing pathetic. It's almost worse if it's an injury and he's this much of a delicate petal about competing through it than if it was just purely a mental thing.

1. It does seem possible that he can get into his head, struggle with confidence, and stop playing instinctively.

He's also likely going to win a Selke in his career and is 15th amongst active players in PPG for his entire career and, I believe, there is nobody younger than him who is above him on the list.

You used to rant and rave (and I agreed with you on this topic) that it wasn't a video game, it was real life with real consequences (in this case you were rightfully arguing against tanking while having a brilliant young core).
Well this too, is real life and deals with real people.

There are several factors converging to make this feel like a bigger deal than it is (and I'm not saying it's nothing).
a. We were terrible for several years so people have little patience.
b. We finally made the playoffs and he really struggled and it hindered us.
c. I think there's some cultural xenophobia (at worst) and ignorance (at best) because if he was playing just as poorly but was yelling and gesticulating lots then I think a lot of posters would be less hard on him.

If we did some dumb shit like deal him for Necas and Kotkaniemi it would end up like the Cam Neely trade and then all of the posters who are screaming for it would suddenly develop amnesia when reality showed how utterly knee-jerk they were in their judgment.

2. If you aren't competing you won't go fast? Are you dead f***ing serious? You think that if someone was going to secretly decide not to give a f*** that they would just never sprint top speed? Suddenly all of the physical stats related to quick bursts would suddenly crater from like 91st percentile to below 50th? Because he's pouting and doesn't care? This is senile Don Cherry tier shit.

3. I think that Petey is a precision player and the team probably want him to develop a better B. game.
I recall in the 98 Capitals' run to the cup finals a colour commentator talking about Peter Bondra and how it seemed like he had to feel good to be of much use. Like when he was banged up, he couldn't offer his 75% game and be as effective as the team wanted.

With that said, I think there are a lot of ignorant people who don't really understand the game who see the missed points, or the absence of his completely obvious 'WOW' plays and think he's doing nothing.
He's prevented several 5 alarm chances against on his own through hustle and amazing reads. A guy who didn't give a shit wouldn't be bothering with that. He's also had, and created, some chances that could have him above a point a game in which case the heat would be turned down a lot.

Note: I'm not saying he's playing up to his potential, he's not and it's frustrating because he's my favorite player in the league in part, because I love watching his artistry and his brilliant reads on display.
But you've got this thing where you throw around wildly hyperbolic rhetoric and then when called out you act like you didn't mean it like that, or that you're 'just asking questions' etc. I've seen you compare him unfavorably to Loui Eriksson and Jonathan Huberdeau which is just...an absolute sinkhole of lost respect.

I also think that athletes know their bodies and it's embarrassing for couch warriors to call 99% of them out as lazy or wimpy.

I ran a 10k last year and it (and the training for it) left me with several months of, what I believe to be, tendonitis in my achilles tendons and it made exercise utterly joyless. It wasn't just painful, it was like my brain would scream at my body to stop moving and i would have to push through for like 10 minutes before my achilles' would numb enough to get into my run.
This is just going for a jog, not competing against the best in the world.

I was a hockey player and have played and tried to play through serious injuries. I suspect that many, many people on these boards who speak about his manhood with such vitriol are exclusively couch warriors and it rubs me the wrong way.

4. This is the 3rd time and he wasn't injured...because you say so?
You're a bright dude, but you vastly overestimate your own knowledge. You conjecture yourself into a tangentially supported (at best) guess, and then build theories and work yourself into a lather over these guesses.
It's intellectually lazy and kind of a waste since, as I said, you are clearly cerebral in many ways.

Further, one of the periods where he did so 'unforgivably poorly', he was on the other side of the world from everyone he loves as a 20/21 year old during a once in a century pandemic where he had at least one teammate who wasn't respecting distancing protocol and got everyone sick. You'll forgive me if I can see the human side of this and allow these players to also be young men who aren't always firing on all cylinders.

5. Is just ignorant. "He make more money, he should stop be human and start be machine". He's still just a person. If you gave him 100 million or a billion dollars a year, it wouldn't make him anymore impervious to quirks of being a human being.
Then you start comparing him to J.T. Miller's injury and stating that Miller's more hurt and performing better. First of all, you can't compare injuries across people, secondly you can't compare different injuries like it's a zero sum game, and third, you don't know shit about either player or man behind the scenes. It's just embarrassing conjecture wrapped around increasingly emotionally driven tantrum shit about what a p***y you think he is and it's...just weird dude. It's really weird.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Went and took a look at the infamous "Had Pettersson Regressed" thread earlier for a lark more than anything, and it's funny how similar it is to the last couple of threads lmao. Trade talk, arguments over whether or not he was hurt, proclamations of him being cooked/a 45-60 pt player, etc etc.

Fun fact: on December 30, 2021, Petey had only recorded 5 ES points so far in the season.

Ofc, a lot of the takes in that thread aged spectacularly badly. I think (or at least hope) that the last couple will look just as silly soon.

 

[Bobby9]

Ah. We’ve reached the ‘maybe posters just don’t understand hockey or are racist’ rant

Grasping

 

[strattonius]

1. It does seem possible that he can get into his head, struggle with confidence, and stop playing instinctively.

He's also likely going to win a Selke in his career and is 15th amongst active players in PPG for his entire career and, I believe, there is nobody younger than him who is above him on the list.

You used to rant and rave (and I agreed with you on this topic) that it wasn't a video game, it was real life with real consequences (in this case you were rightfully arguing against tanking while having a brilliant young core).
Well this too, is real life and deals with real people.

There are several factors converging to make this feel like a bigger deal than it is (and I'm not saying it's nothing).
a. We were terrible for several years so people have little patience.
b. We finally made the playoffs and he really struggled and it hindered us.
c. I think there's some cultural xenophobia (at worst) and ignorance (at best) because if he was playing just as poorly but was yelling and gesticulating lots then I think a lot of posters would be less hard on him.

If we did some dumb shit like deal him for Necas and Kotkaniemi it would end up like the Cam Neely trade and then all of the posters who are screaming for it would suddenly develop amnesia when reality showed how utterly knee-jerk they were in their judgment.

2. If you aren't competing you won't go fast? Are you dead f***ing serious? You think that if someone was going to secretly decide not to give a f*** that they would just never sprint top speed? Suddenly all of the physical stats related to quick bursts would suddenly crater from like 91st percentile to below 50th? Because he's pouting and doesn't care? This is senile Don Cherry tier shit.

3. I think that Petey is a precision player and the team probably want him to develop a better B. game.
I recall in the 98 Capitals' run to the cup finals a colour commentator talking about Peter Bondra and how it seemed like he had to feel good to be of much use. Like when he was banged up, he couldn't offer his 75% game and be as effective as the team wanted.

With that said, I think there are a lot of ignorant people who don't really understand the game who see the missed points, or the absence of his completely obvious 'WOW' plays and think he's doing nothing.
He's prevented several 5 alarm chances against on his own through hustle and amazing reads. A guy who didn't give a shit wouldn't be bothering with that. He's also had, and created, some chances that could have him above a point a game in which case the heat would be turned down a lot.

Note: I'm not saying he's playing up to his potential, he's not and it's frustrating because he's my favorite player in the league in part, because I love watching his artistry and his brilliant reads on display.
But you've got this thing where you throw around wildly hyperbolic rhetoric and then when called out you act like you didn't mean it like that, or that you're 'just asking questions' etc. I've seen you compare him unfavorably to Loui Eriksson and Jonathan Huberdeau which is just...an absolute sinkhole of lost respect.

I also think that athletes know their bodies and it's embarrassing for couch warriors to call 99% of them out as lazy or wimpy.

I ran a 10k last year and it (and the training for it) left me with several months of, what I believe to be, tendonitis in my achilles tendons and it made exercise utterly joyless. It wasn't just painful, it was like my brain would scream at my body to stop moving and i would have to push through for like 10 minutes before my achilles' would numb enough to get into my run.
This is just going for a jog, not competing against the best in the world.

I was a hockey player and have played and tried to play through serious injuries. I suspect that many, many people on these boards who speak about his manhood with such vitriol are exclusively couch warriors and it rubs me the wrong way.

4. This is the 3rd time and he wasn't injured...because you say so?
You're a bright dude, but you vastly overestimate your own knowledge. You conjecture yourself into a tangentially supported (at best) guess, and then build theories and work yourself into a lather over these guesses.
It's intellectually lazy and kind of a waste since, as I said, you are clearly cerebral in many ways.

Further, one of the periods where he did so 'unforgivably poorly', he was on the other side of the world from everyone he loves as a 20/21 year old during a once in a century pandemic where he had at least one teammate who wasn't respecting distancing protocol and got everyone sick. You'll forgive me if I can see the human side of this and allow these players to also be young men who aren't always firing on all cylinders.

5. Is just ignorant. "He make more money, he should stop be human and start be machine". He's still just a person. If you gave him 100 million or a billion dollars a year, it wouldn't make him anymore impervious to quirks of being a human being.
Then you start comparing him to J.T. Miller's injury and stating that Miller's more hurt and performing better. First of all, you can't compare injuries across people, secondly you can't compare different injuries like it's a zero sum game, and third, you don't know shit about either player or man behind the scenes. It's just embarrassing conjecture wrapped around increasingly emotionally driven tantrum shit about what a p***y you think he is and it's...just weird dude. It's really weird.

It's not weird people are talking and obsessing over this. Our best forward and phenom young forward suddenly doesn't look like he knows how to play hockey. To me it's the biggest distraction AND detractor to the team right now.

This sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

r

1. It does seem possible that he can get into his head, struggle with confidence, and stop playing instinctively.

He's also likely going to win a Selke in his career and is 15th amongst active players in PPG for his entire career and, I believe, there is nobody younger than him who is above him on the list.

You used to rant and rave (and I agreed with you on this topic) that it wasn't a video game, it was real life with real consequences (in this case you were rightfully arguing against tanking while having a brilliant young core).
Well this too, is real life and deals with real people.

There are several factors converging to make this feel like a bigger deal than it is (and I'm not saying it's nothing).
a. We were terrible for several years so people have little patience.
b. We finally made the playoffs and he really struggled and it hindered us.
c. I think there's some cultural xenophobia (at worst) and ignorance (at best) because if he was playing just as poorly but was yelling and gesticulating lots then I think a lot of posters would be less hard on him.

If we did some dumb shit like deal him for Necas and Kotkaniemi it would end up like the Cam Neely trade and then all of the posters who are screaming for it would suddenly develop amnesia when reality showed how utterly knee-jerk they were in their judgment.

2. If you aren't competing you won't go fast? Are you dead f***ing serious? You think that if someone was going to secretly decide not to give a f*** that they would just never sprint top speed? Suddenly all of the physical stats related to quick bursts would suddenly crater from like 91st percentile to below 50th? Because he's pouting and doesn't care? This is senile Don Cherry tier shit.

3. I think that Petey is a precision player and the team probably want him to develop a better B. game.
I recall in the 98 Capitals' run to the cup finals a colour commentator talking about Peter Bondra and how it seemed like he had to feel good to be of much use. Like when he was banged up, he couldn't offer his 75% game and be as effective as the team wanted.

With that said, I think there are a lot of ignorant people who don't really understand the game who see the missed points, or the absence of his completely obvious 'WOW' plays and think he's doing nothing.
He's prevented several 5 alarm chances against on his own through hustle and amazing reads. A guy who didn't give a shit wouldn't be bothering with that. He's also had, and created, some chances that could have him above a point a game in which case the heat would be turned down a lot.

Note: I'm not saying he's playing up to his potential, he's not and it's frustrating because he's my favorite player in the league in part, because I love watching his artistry and his brilliant reads on display.
But you've got this thing where you throw around wildly hyperbolic rhetoric and then when called out you act like you didn't mean it like that, or that you're 'just asking questions' etc. I've seen you compare him unfavorably to Loui Eriksson and Jonathan Huberdeau which is just...an absolute sinkhole of lost respect.

I also think that athletes know their bodies and it's embarrassing for couch warriors to call 99% of them out as lazy or wimpy.

I ran a 10k last year and it (and the training for it) left me with several months of, what I believe to be, tendonitis in my achilles tendons and it made exercise utterly joyless. It wasn't just painful, it was like my brain would scream at my body to stop moving and i would have to push through for like 10 minutes before my achilles' would numb enough to get into my run.
This is just going for a jog, not competing against the best in the world.

I was a hockey player and have played and tried to play through serious injuries. I suspect that many, many people on these boards who speak about his manhood with such vitriol are exclusively couch warriors and it rubs me the wrong way.

4. This is the 3rd time and he wasn't injured...because you say so?
You're a bright dude, but you vastly overestimate your own knowledge. You conjecture yourself into a tangentially supported (at best) guess, and then build theories and work yourself into a lather over these guesses.
It's intellectually lazy and kind of a waste since, as I said, you are clearly cerebral in many ways.

Further, one of the periods where he did so 'unforgivably poorly', he was on the other side of the world from everyone he loves as a 20/21 year old during a once in a century pandemic where he had at least one teammate who wasn't respecting distancing protocol and got everyone sick. You'll forgive me if I can see the human side of this and allow these players to also be young men who aren't always firing on all cylinders.

5. Is just ignorant. "He make more money, he should stop be human and start be machine". He's still just a person. If you gave him 100 million or a billion dollars a year, it wouldn't make him anymore impervious to quirks of being a human being.
Then you start comparing him to J.T. Miller's injury and stating that Miller's more hurt and performing better. First of all, you can't compare injuries across people, secondly you can't compare different injuries like it's a zero sum game, and third, you don't know shit about either player or man behind the scenes. It's just embarrassing conjecture wrapped around increasingly emotionally driven tantrum shit about what a p***y you think he is and it's...just weird dude. It's really weird.

Very well put.

Very very well put.

 

[iRageWin]

Sounds like we're spiralling towards attacking each other and having this thread closed again.

It's not the system Tocchet teaches, but I wish they would just give Petey free reign and tell him to shoot it whenever he has the puck in the offensive zone. I feel like this is the fastest way to get him feeling better about his game rather than him making plays out of sync with his linemates, which just highlights failure when the puck is turned over. I think current level Petey still has enough of a shot to put in at least a goal every other game if he would just hammer it without thinking of passing

 

[Tinhorn1]

The injury thing seemed like a legitimate explanation last year but at this point I'm not buying it. I don't believe this management group would sit and do nothing if their highest paid player was experiencing this much of a drop in performance for this long because he was trying to play through an injury.

If he was physically limited to that degree it would have been obvious when he came into camp, and they wouldn't have had him go through training camp and preseason hoping it just magically gets better. Literally, think about how stupid our entire coaching staff and management would have to be.

I also don't think he's just sulking or mailing it in because he doesn't care or whatever. I don't get that vibe and it doesn't make sense logically - if he didn't want to be here he would have just asked to be moved... instead of, you know, signing a long-term contract with a no-movement clause.

I think he has to be going through something pretty serious mentally. I could be wrong and I hate speculating about something like that but It's the most likely scenario when I look at the whole situation. If that is the case there probably isn't a solution, you just have to hope he finds his way out of it.

In previous discussions of knee tendinitis on these boards, people who know a bit about physio have stated that it can be the case that rest isn't necessarily curative and that the best course of treatment is actually exercising the right way. That and time (an indeterminate amount). To dismiss it as not being even part of the equation (this year) doesn't seem logical to me. Pettersson can certainly be annoying when he falls over in the corner, but he doesn't strike me a liar. As he said at the start of training camp that the issue is still present, I believe him. Again, that doesn't mean it's 100 percent of the problem, and I would guess almost certainly not, but there is also no basis for dismissing it, either.

 

[Tinhorn1]

I get you, but honestly what else do you expect? Like MS has said, this is a BIG deal! People aren't magnifying something trivial. We aren't exactly making a mountain out of a molehill. Like it or not, it's going to be top of the agenda pretty much everyday until we at least see some consistent life from the team's $11.6M man.

I didn't want to say anything the other day during the Pittsburgh game because I didn't want to ruin the mood and I want to support Pettersson, but even when he scored he was emotionless. There was a fist pump sort of but he didn't look like someone who just needed to get the monkey off his back. He looked like someone whose circumstances weren't going to change one bit as a result of that goal. And we saw that next game against Carolina.

It's just so hard to watch as a fan, and honestly, as a fellow human being.

It is definitely a big deal. With you there. It's a chance at a Stanley Cup or not. But man, some people don't show emotions. You have to get over it. Your cultural and interpersonal expectations may be misleading you, and you need to recognize that.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I didn't want to say anything the other day during the Pittsburgh game because I didn't want to ruin the mood and I want to support Pettersson, but even when he scored he was emotionless. There was a fist pump sort of but he didn't look like someone who just needed to get the monkey off his back. He looked like someone whose circumstances weren't going to change one bit as a result of that goal. And we saw that next game against Carolina.

It's just so hard to watch as a fan, and honestly, as a fellow human being.

Same thing last playoff when he scored his goal. He didn't look excite, relieve or anything, barely celebrated. He just looks like he is at work doing a job. I know people are going to jump down my throat for "projecting" or whatever, but I would think for a guy that struggled as much as he did, that when he score a goal he would show some emotion.

c. I think there's some cultural xenophobia (at worst) and ignorance (at best) because if he was playing just as poorly but was yelling and gesticulating lots then I think a lot of posters would be less hard on him.

He's also had, and created, some chances that could have him above a point a game in which case the heat would be turned down a lot.

Further, one of the periods where he did so 'unforgivably poorly', he was on the other side of the world from everyone he loves as a 20/21 year old during a once in a century pandemic where he had at least one teammate who wasn't respecting distancing protocol and got everyone sick. You'll forgive me if I can see the human side of this and allow these players to also be young men who aren't always firing on all cylinders.

For the first bolded sentence, that is clearly false. JTM was producing well when he was smashing his stick over the net and yelling at teammates, and the was destroyed for it online and on the radio. The fact Petey still has so much support among fans, even chanting his name in the playoff to get him going, while he is/was struggling so much putting up points, seems like he is actually getting a much better treatment than his American teammate.

The second bolded line, I'm not see all these chances that would "have him above a point a game". It is precisely because he isn't creating or finishing his chances that is concerning people. If he was, most fans would chalk it up as he is snakebitten and will eventually get the bounces going his way. It is concerning because we don't see a player creating anything, so we don't see how he would turn it around.

The third bolded line, I mean that's fine and all, but Hughes was also hundreds of miles away from family, and is even younger, and he was fine. I get that everybody deals with things differently, some can handle more than others. But it must be frustrating for his teammates that Petey would disappears for periods when they need him most. Like guys like Boeser was playing with a broken finger in the Edmonton series and was gutting it out and getting result, pushing the Oilers to game 7 until he really can't play anymore, but Petey can play and is looking completely lost out there. It must be tough to watch for Brock.

 

[Ernie]

Its a massive deal. It’s the biggest thing happening with this franchise right now. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to be talking about this than talking about Brannstrom vs. Forbort or whatever.

And yes, I’m very frustrated. I’m not sure how others aren’t.

People are frustrated. It's a big deal for the team. But the many thousands of words you've written could be summarized in 4 words:

suck it up, princess.

Lots of people are trying to have a nuanced discussion here but you keep spamming every thread where his name comes up with the exact same posts. Sure, you'll get your thumbs up, because after all, this is a hockey message board and this attitude is pervasive in the culture.

I lead an active lifestyle and have a circle of friends that do so as well. And I can tell you, anytime anyone has a physical ailment that is keeping them from performing as well as they do usually do, and keeping them from achieving their goals, it has a massive mental toll as well.

Lots of people have pointed out how his physical metrics have declined, ie shot speed, skating speed. We are trying to have a discussion. Maybe you could do the board in general a favour and take a bit of a breather, as you've suggest others do as well.

 

[thecupismine]

Man, Petey threads always devolve and bring out the worst in everyone real quick

Would be nice if everyone did a read over and asked themselves if their language is raising the temperature of the conversation or not, and if it’s really necessary to do so.

 

[MS]

1. It does seem possible that he can get into his head, struggle with confidence, and stop playing instinctively.

He's also likely going to win a Selke in his career and is 15th amongst active players in PPG for his entire career and, I believe, there is nobody younger than him who is above him on the list.

You used to rant and rave (and I agreed with you on this topic) that it wasn't a video game, it was real life with real consequences (in this case you were rightfully arguing against tanking while having a brilliant young core).
Well this too, is real life and deals with real people.

There are several factors converging to make this feel like a bigger deal than it is (and I'm not saying it's nothing).
a. We were terrible for several years so people have little patience.
b. We finally made the playoffs and he really struggled and it hindered us.
c. I think there's some cultural xenophobia (at worst) and ignorance (at best) because if he was playing just as poorly but was yelling and gesticulating lots then I think a lot of posters would be less hard on him.

If we did some dumb shit like deal him for Necas and Kotkaniemi it would end up like the Cam Neely trade and then all of the posters who are screaming for it would suddenly develop amnesia when reality showed how utterly knee-jerk they were in their judgment.

2. If you aren't competing you won't go fast? Are you dead f***ing serious? You think that if someone was going to secretly decide not to give a f*** that they would just never sprint top speed? Suddenly all of the physical stats related to quick bursts would suddenly crater from like 91st percentile to below 50th? Because he's pouting and doesn't care? This is senile Don Cherry tier shit.

3. I think that Petey is a precision player and the team probably want him to develop a better B. game.
I recall in the 98 Capitals' run to the cup finals a colour commentator talking about Peter Bondra and how it seemed like he had to feel good to be of much use. Like when he was banged up, he couldn't offer his 75% game and be as effective as the team wanted.

With that said, I think there are a lot of ignorant people who don't really understand the game who see the missed points, or the absence of his completely obvious 'WOW' plays and think he's doing nothing.
He's prevented several 5 alarm chances against on his own through hustle and amazing reads. A guy who didn't give a shit wouldn't be bothering with that. He's also had, and created, some chances that could have him above a point a game in which case the heat would be turned down a lot.

Note: I'm not saying he's playing up to his potential, he's not and it's frustrating because he's my favorite player in the league in part, because I love watching his artistry and his brilliant reads on display.
But you've got this thing where you throw around wildly hyperbolic rhetoric and then when called out you act like you didn't mean it like that, or that you're 'just asking questions' etc. I've seen you compare him unfavorably to Loui Eriksson and Jonathan Huberdeau which is just...an absolute sinkhole of lost respect.

I also think that athletes know their bodies and it's embarrassing for couch warriors to call 99% of them out as lazy or wimpy.

I ran a 10k last year and it (and the training for it) left me with several months of, what I believe to be, tendonitis in my achilles tendons and it made exercise utterly joyless. It wasn't just painful, it was like my brain would scream at my body to stop moving and i would have to push through for like 10 minutes before my achilles' would numb enough to get into my run.
This is just going for a jog, not competing against the best in the world.

I was a hockey player and have played and tried to play through serious injuries. I suspect that many, many people on these boards who speak about his manhood with such vitriol are exclusively couch warriors and it rubs me the wrong way.

4. This is the 3rd time and he wasn't injured...because you say so?
You're a bright dude, but you vastly overestimate your own knowledge. You conjecture yourself into a tangentially supported (at best) guess, and then build theories and work yourself into a lather over these guesses.
It's intellectually lazy and kind of a waste since, as I said, you are clearly cerebral in many ways.

Further, one of the periods where he did so 'unforgivably poorly', he was on the other side of the world from everyone he loves as a 20/21 year old during a once in a century pandemic where he had at least one teammate who wasn't respecting distancing protocol and got everyone sick. You'll forgive me if I can see the human side of this and allow these players to also be young men who aren't always firing on all cylinders.

5. Is just ignorant. "He make more money, he should stop be human and start be machine". He's still just a person. If you gave him 100 million or a billion dollars a year, it wouldn't make him anymore impervious to quirks of being a human being.
Then you start comparing him to J.T. Miller's injury and stating that Miller's more hurt and performing better. First of all, you can't compare injuries across people, secondly you can't compare different injuries like it's a zero sum game, and third, you don't know shit about either player or man behind the scenes. It's just embarrassing conjecture wrapped around increasingly emotionally driven tantrum shit about what a p***y you think he is and it's...just weird dude. It's really weird.

What an impressive tantrum of absolute nonsense and personal attacks that was the exact sort of thing that got this thread closed last time when you were going off about how criticizing a player with 1 ES goal in 45 games was 'acting like he f***ed my wife and killed my dog'. "Xenophobia", "senile Don Cherry shit", "really weird".

Grow the f*** up.

Nothing you said here does any thing to explain any sort of injury or why the team is treating this the way they are. It's just an invented narrative because you don't want to acknowledge the poor play of your favourite player.

And most of this is just you saying that fans should just ignore when soft players act/perform like Pettersson/Dubois/Huberdeau because they're delicate petals with feelings who just need a hug. What a bunch of nonsense.

And absolutely nobody, ever, has said that players should be robots who perform to the same level all the time. Of course there are ebbs and flows, and of course things affect play. As I've said countless times, if Petterson was out there obviously competing but scored at a 75 or 80-point pace over his last 50 games instead of a 110-point pace ... nobody would be complaining. But this is f***ing pro sports and when you have an $11 million contract you don't get to check out and disappear when you have a nothing minor injury. It is incredible that you don't understand this. If every other star player can battle through injuries and adversity and find ways to lead and contribute but you look sad and check out, it is a major flaw.

 

[bandwagonesque]

suck it up, princess.

A lot of things can be summarized this way if you don't read them. I've disagreed with MS many times, and he's not immune to getting tunnel vision about an argument and I think all of us have done that at least a few times, but you can't say he doesn't try to make his opinion clear.

One argument other posters have disregarded is especially persuasive to me -- if he was injured, I really doubt the team would publicly attribute his poor performance to his approach/attitude, even indirectly. Leaving norms aside, they would have to know it wouldn't help this particular player to be motivated that way.

 

[Tinhorn1]

What an impressive tantrum of absolute nonsense and personal attacks that was the exact sort of thing that got this thread closed last time when you were going off about how criticizing a player with 1 ES goal in 45 games was 'acting like he f***ed my wife and killed my dog'. "Xenophobia", "senile Don Cherry shit", "really weird".

Grow the f*** up.

Nothing you said here does any thing to explain any sort of injury or why the team is treating this the way they are. It's just an invented narrative because you don't want to acknowledge the poor play of your favourite player.

And most of this is just you saying that fans should just ignore when soft players act/perform like Pettersson/Dubois/Huberdeau because they're delicate petals with feelings who just need a hug. What a bunch of nonsense.

And absolutely nobody, ever, has said that players should be robots who perform to the same level all the time. Of course there are ebbs and flows, and of course things affect play. As I've said countless times, if Petterson was out there obviously competing but scored at a 75 or 80-point pace over his last 50 games instead of a 110-point pace ... nobody would be complaining. But this is f***ing pro sports and when you have an $11 million contract you don't get to check out and disappear when you have a nothing minor injury. It is incredible that you don't understand this. If every other star player can battle through injuries and adversity and find ways to lead and contribute but you look sad and check out, it is a major flaw.

I'm not going to get into ad hominems or anything, but I do feel you have a bias against his player that colours your reasoning - as do I, probably! But I really don't understand how you can so completely discount tendinitis as an issue when it so clearly is one, possibly in addition to others. As Ray Ferraro, I believe, and others have said, it's an issue that can come and go, with an indefinite timeline, so shutting down a player who can still help you, even at a much reduced rate, makes no sense. Words you use, like "sad," "checked out," and so on, are your own interpretation and should be acknowledged as such, and my equally subjective observations don't align with it, in that I see him back checking hard and all the rest. My point is that effort is open to interpretation.

 

[MS]

Oh, and this bit is f***ing crazy for the lack of self-awareness.

4. This is the 3rd time and he wasn't injured...because you say so?
You're a bright dude, but you vastly overestimate your own knowledge. You conjecture yourself into a tangentially supported (at best) guess, and then build theories and work yourself into a lather over these guesses.
It's intellectually lazy and kind of a waste since, as I said, you are clearly cerebral in many ways.

I’m assuming he isn’t hurt BECAUSE THE TEAM IS SAYING HE ISN’T HURT. The head coach is openly scoffing at it. The reports are that management is very concerned about the player behind the scenes, and not because of an injury. If he was actually hurt and taking this amount of criticism, the organization would be making the injury known to protect the player. They aren’t.

And same the other two times. He wasn’t missing games. Wasn’t taking maintenance days. The team was not presenting injuries as excuses. We know the exact day/game/play when he actually was hurt on March 1, 2021.

I’m not ‘guessing’ or ‘building narratives to get angry at’ or anything like that. I’m literally responding to the actual evidence presented by the team.

Posters like you, on the other hand, are doing *exactly* what you’re accusing me of and basically inventing significant injury issues and building narratives which are totally lacking in evidence.

 

[strattonius]

Lots of people are trying to have a nuanced discussion here but you keep spamming every thread where his name comes up with the exact same posts. Sure, you'll get your thumbs up, because after all, this is a hockey message board and this attitude is pervasive in the culture.

Gaslighting bologna.

Basically saying 'you don't agree with me so you're not trying to have a nuanced and intelligent discussion like I am'.

 

[Tinhorn1]

A lot of things can be summarized this way if you don't read them. I've disagreed with MS many times, and he's not immune to getting tunnel vision about an argument and I think all of us have done that at least a few times, but you can't say he doesn't try to make his opinion clear.

One argument other posters have disregarded is especially persuasive to me -- if he was injured, I really doubt the team would publicly attribute his poor performance to his approach/attitude, even indirectly. Leaving norms aside, they would have to know it wouldn't help this particular player to be motivated that way.

A lot of coaches are old school. A lot of posters/fans are as well... Short of being inside Pettersson's body, anyway, absolutely nobody knows what it's like. People are acting like a health issue has never affected a professional athlete's play before. Now, maybe they should have thought twice about that contract... But that's another discussion.

 

[MS]

People are frustrated. It's a big deal for the team. But the many thousands of words you've written could be summarized in 4 words:

suck it up, princess.

Lots of people are trying to have a nuanced discussion here but you keep spamming every thread where his name comes up with the exact same posts. Sure, you'll get your thumbs up, because after all, this is a hockey message board and this attitude is pervasive in the culture.

I lead an active lifestyle and have a circle of friends that do so as well. And I can tell you, anytime anyone has a physical ailment that is keeping them from performing as well as they do usually do, and keeping them from achieving their goals, it has a massive mental toll as well.

Lots of people have pointed out how his physical metrics have declined, ie shot speed, skating speed. We are trying to have a discussion. Maybe you could do the board in general a favour and take a bit of a breather, as you've suggest others do as well.

And you aren't doing exactly the same thing you're accusing me of?

I'm not the one constantly resorting to personal attacks, by the way.

I'm allowed to make posts with evidence criticizing a player who is playing poorly. If you don't want to read them, move on.

I've coached a sport at fairly high levels for most of my adult life. I know how these things work. I also know that when you're dealing with superstar players in the NHL making 8-figure salaries, the bar of 'acceptable' is a hell of a lot higher than for guys playing beer league hockey. We've seen Hughes. Boeser. and Miller all play hurt in the last year and compete and play well. Pettersson has done the opposite. If you can't do the thing that is expected at this level, you will get criticized for it.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Oh, and this bit is f***ing crazy for the lack of self-awareness.



I’m assuming he isn’t hurt BECAUSE THE TEAM IS SAYING HE ISN’T HURT. The head coach is openly scoffing at it. The reports are that management is very concerned about the player behind the scenes, and not because of an injury. If he was actually hurt and taking this amount of criticism, the organization would be making the injury known to protect the player. They aren’t.

And same the other two times. He wasn’t missing games. Wasn’t taking maintenance days. The team was not presenting injuries as excuses. We know the exact day/game/play when he actually was hurt on March 1, 2021.

I’m not ‘guessing’ or ‘building narratives to get angry at’ or anything like that. I’m literally responding to the actual evidence presented by the team.

Posters like you, on the other hand, are doing *exactly* what you’re accusing me of and basically inventing significant injury issues and building narratives which are totally lacking in evidence.

He said himself at the start of the year that the issue hasn't gone away. What is it exactly that you want. Also, just because there is likely another issue as well doesn't mean that both can't be true. Anyway, hopefully both get resolved as the season goes on. It is entirely possible. Also, didn't his last slump come after missing the remainder of the previous season due to injury? I could be wrong.

 

[Nucker101]

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Thanks for this, but honestly this is even more concerning than it being a mental thing. A knee injury that's been bothering him for like 8-9 months is a big red flag, especially if it can't be fixed by surgery or time off. If it turns into a chronic injury then Pete's going to go down as a "what if he stayed healthy?" case.


My only cope at this point is that it is mental and he's playing slower due to lack of confidence(not likely, but I have hope).

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Thanks for this, but honestly this is even more concerning than it being a mental thing. A knee injury that's been bothering him for like 8-9 months is a big red flag, especially if it can't be fixed by surgery or time off. If it turns into a chronic injury then Pete's going to go down as a "what if he stayed healthy?" case.


My only cope at this point is that it is mental and he's playing slower due to lack of confidence(not likely, but I have hope).

My opinnion is that it got this bad because it was misdiagnosed and then it was too late to do anything for the playoffs.

Big part of it is absolutely mental. But shot velocity and top speed... doubt it.

 

[MS]

He said himself at the start of the year that the issue hasn't gone away. What is it exactly that you want. Also, just because there is likely another issue as well doesn't mean that both can't be true. Anyway, hopefully both get resolved as the season goes on. It is entirely possible. Also, didn't his last slump come after missing the remainder of the previous season due to injury? I could be wrong.

Nobody is denying that there might be some minor issue.

But again, how is the team treating this? It is *very* clear that the team does not view this as any sort of excuse for his play. The team views this as very minor. The team’s concerns with his play very obviously extend way beyond any sort of minor knee tendinitis.

And again, this is the 3rd time this has happened.

Like, we know when guys are hurt and the club thinks they’re hurt. Miller/Hronek/Boeser were hurt at the end of last year. Miller is hurt right now.

If Petterson was hurt in any way that the club thought was connected to/influencing his play, the club would be making that clear to protect their $11 million asset. They are not, and that speaks volumes.

What I’m posting lines up basically exactly with the messaging we’re getting from the team/coaching staff/medical staff. And people really, really don’t like hearing it.

 

[kanucks25]

My opinnion is that it got this bad because it was misdiagnosed and then it was too late to do anything for the playoffs.

Big part of it is absolutely mental. But shot velocity and top speed... doubt it.

I mean but isn't this mysterious "injury" the type that both can't be aggravated and also has no real cure or timeline? Nor is it one that the team can seemingly even evaluate and only Petey himself can feel/sense?

If so, I find it hard to understand how it can be misdiagnosed.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I mean but isn't this mysterious "injury" the type that both can't be aggravated and also has no real cure or timeline? Nor is it one that the team can seemingly even evaluate and only Petey himself can feel/sense?

If so, I find it hard to understand how it can be misdiagnosed.

And you are 100% free to think that in my book.

I wont spend any extended time discussing the specifics of this type of injury here.

 

[credulous]

What I’m posting lines up basically exactly with the messaging we’re getting from the team/coaching staff/medical staff. And people really, really don’t like hearing it.

i think you give too much credit to management/coaching with regards to their agenda, their honesty and their expertise. this team has been a horror show of public pr and especially medical issues for the last decade

to me pettersson's problems are at least 50% coaching. he just isn't suited to the game tocchet wants him playing and he is struggling to be effective while playing within it. pettersson is at fault here too for being unable to adapt (and he is probably checked out a little which is deserving of cricitism) but i'm pretty confident if you put him in a different situation his performance would rebound