Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - A Forward Who Scores

[Raistlin]

Oh I haven't forgotten. Going back to last year I've said that something happened to him personally that kinda wrecked him (seemingly). I've been hard on him but I've never been under the impression he's just a guy who stopped playing or doesn't give a shit or has major character issues. It's something very specific that's going on, I really believe that.

How Boeser's openess to discussing his off ice issue may have a reverse effect for people that value their privacy a lot more. I was appalled at the personal questions that was lobbed at Boeser at the year end press availability event. It could very well be witnessing that, that EP closes up. Its not an excuse, but being in this market, you'll just have to learn quickly not to read what is being said about you. Its not the fandom's fault, its his for not protecting his well being.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Apparently his amount/pace of speed bursts is dramatically down from two years ago, and his shot speed has dropped.

Do you assume these are because he just doesn't 'want' it enough?

I expect a Markus Naslund fan to know this can and has happen before.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

what happened to Granlund?

Got traded to Vancouver

 

[F A N]

Apparently his amount/pace of speed bursts is dramatically down from two years ago, and his shot speed has dropped.

Do you assume these are because he just doesn't 'want' it enough?

This isn't directed at me. Reduced shot speed is troubling. Reduced skating speed and amount of speed bursts could be a confidence/effort thing.

I expect a Markus Naslund fan to know this can and has happen before.

Hey don't you question Naslund's effort.

 

[Jay26]

How Boeser's openess to discussing his off ice issue may have a reverse effect for people that value their privacy a lot more. I was appalled at the personal questions that was lobbed at Boeser at the year end press availability event. It could very well be witnessing that, that EP closes up. Its not an excuse, but being in this market, you'll just have to learn quickly not to read what is being said about you. Its not the fandom's fault, its his for not protecting his well being.

I just think it's reality that questions are going to arise when you have the status Pettersson does and are playing like this. It's one thing to expect a base level of respect but it's another thing to expect people to pretend nothing is really wrong. The market just wants to know, in even a very basic sense, what the hell is going on.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I’d love to see the same numbers from
20-21 when he came out totally useless when totally healthy that year.

The whole point is that he’s not competing and not moving his feet. No shit you don’t go fast when you don’t move your feet.

Do you actually think that he’s legit hurt but that everyone in the organization is choosing to deny it and openly criticize his play instead?

And even if he was slightly hurt, I don’t give a shit. It doesn’t excuse this level of performance, or anything close.

So your premise is that he's just mailing it in and that's why his sprint speed isn't as fast? He only 'cares' enough to go at like 75% speed?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

So your premise is that he's just mailing it in and that's why his sprint speed isn't as fast? He only 'cares' enough to go at like 75% speed?

You might want to sit down for this.

It's kind of crazy, but people have been known to half-ass things in their professional life.

There's even multiple examples of such in professional hockey!

Now, as to why EP is playing uninspired is completely up in the air. I'm of the opinion it is mental health related and I wonder how much slack he'd be given if his last name was Rypien and/or he was a 'character' guy.

If you're dealing with a severe mental illness it can be very hard to do even the most basic things, so yeah, it could be entirely possible he's 'mailing it in.' But again, the reason why could be any number of things (mental health, lazy/unmotivated player, voodoo hex, aliens replaced him with a clone, or a longterm nagging injury no one has talked about or discussed and has been dragging him down for a year+...sorry, I know I'm kind veering into the fantastical here...)

Something is up with him, but unless he talks, there is no way of knowing what it is.

 

[Quinning]

I think he just needs a fresh start somewhere else.

 

[MS]

So your premise is that he's just mailing it in and that's why his sprint speed isn't as fast? He only 'cares' enough to go at like 75% speed?

1. I never said he 'didn't care'. My belief is that he doesn't handle adversity well, gets lost in his own head and makes himself miserable, and then shuts down and stops competing.

2. Yes, if you aren't competing you won't go fast.

3. You didn't answer my question. Do you actually think that if the team superstar $11.6 million player was actually hurt, that the team would be treating it like this? Actively scoffing at the notion he was hurt? Not resting him for game 82 last year with the other injured players? Coaches calling him out? Management trying to get the leadership group of the team to work on getting him sorted?

4. This is the 3rd time this has happened and he's stopped competing for a large sample size of games. He wasn't injured the other two times either.

5. EVEN IF HE IS HURT IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you're an $11 million NHL player and you have a minor knock, you'd better still f***ing show up and compete and be effective. JT Miller is hurt a hell of a lot worse than whatever Pettersson has or doesn't have right now, and he has 9 points through 8 games. Basically every superstar player in the NHL has been banged up at times and still shown up and competed and produced. If this is what happens to Pettersson due to a minor knee issue, it's f***ing pathetic. It's almost worse if it's an injury and he's this much of a delicate petal about competing through it than if it was just purely a mental thing.

 

[Ernie]

I hope I one day find someone who loves me as much as MS hates Pettersson

 

[sandwichbird2023]

what happened to Granlund?

Value of: - Mikael Granlund to a contender

Save Baby Jesus! The guy has been playing the best hockey in his career, on the worst team in the league last season and the start of this. His marriage-problems are behind him and other issues. If his teammates actually could score he would have a lot more points. One of the best setup-players...

forums.hfboards.com

There is a post in this thread, post #5, that talked about it. I don't know if there's any truth behind it but personal problem can and does seep into people's job performance. Again, not speculating about Petey's situation nor implying anything.

 

[MS]

I hope I one day find someone who loves me as much as MS hates Pettersson

Why do people think I hate him?

I am (justifiably) extremely frustrated about watching our $11.6 million superstar stop competing for a large sample of games for the 3rd time in his career. I'm extremely frustrated that his godawful performance was the biggest reason we got knocked out of the playoffs last year when we had our best chance of a deep run since 2011.

I want him to play well again. We need him to play well again. I have no idea how that will happen or when that will happen. And it's - again - extremely frustrating.

Equating that with LOL HATER is just lazy, sad posting.

 

[Ernie]

Why do people think I hate him?

I am (justifiably) extremely frustrated about watching our $11.6 million superstar stop competing for a large sample of games for the 3rd time in his career. I'm extremely frustrated that his godawful performance was the biggest reason we got knocked out of the playoffs last year when we had our best chance of a deep run since 2011.

I want him to play well again. We need him to play well again. I have no idea how that will happen or when that will happen. And it's - again - extremely frustrating.

Equating that with LOL HATER is just lazy, sad posting.

Maybe because you've written literally thousands over words over the last month and a half telling people how terrible he is.

 

[mriswith]

Nothing and no one has given any indication he’s still injured. Not even rumors. I can guarantee you if it comes out he has been playing injured those of us calling him out for his poor play will course adjust and rip into the coaching staff loudly

He said the issue wasn't fully resolved before season started and more or less said he trained around it over the summer. I wasn't too optimistic about his season this year after hearing that.

EP doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to admit he's hurt to the coaching staff until he absolutely has no choice.

The only reason I doubt that is the explanation is that his bursts between 18-20mph are down a little bit but not wildly, while anything above 20mph has fallen off almost completely. He’s still skating fast, just not really fast like he used to. That to me screams injury limiting his mobility. But that also doesn’t seem sufficient for the level of decline we have seen across his game.

It's never just been about the injury though.

To any reasonable person it has always been a mix of injury, a combination of expectations and bad linemates that no other star has to deal with particularly last year, as well as the mental aspect.

 

[rypper]

Friedman said he's not 100%. I don't think he would say that if he wasn't getting fed it from somewhere legit.

 

[MS]

Maybe because you've written literally thousands over words over the last month and a half telling people how terrible he is.

Its a massive deal. It’s the biggest thing happening with this franchise right now. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to be talking about this than talking about Brannstrom vs. Forbort or whatever.

And yes, I’m very frustrated. I’m not sure how others aren’t.

Friedman said he's not 100%. I don't think he would say that if he wasn't getting fed it from somewhere legit.

Probably half the team isn’t 100% at any given time.

The handling of this by the team indicate that they do not consider this any sort of significant issue or excuse.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He still shows flashes of all these though, there's nothing wrong with him physically, he was always a deer on skates.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah, the one he wasn't held out of the lineup for at any point, even late in the season when they had the chance?

Wish I could respond to this but cant.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Any injury that's hampering a player to THIS degree would be something the player would sit out for at some point. It's either a minor injury that he can work through, in which case he should be looking better than he is, or it's a serious enough injury that it renders you practically lifeless on the ice, and therefore something that he probably shouldn't be playing through.

You're right that both can be true, and I've already said that I can see there potentially be something nagging him, but most people agree this is mostly mental. If it was mostly physical or even 50/50 you can be sure the team would be more outwardly proactive.

Most people might agree, and I might even join them, but it's worth pointing out that none of us actually know much of anything. What bothers me about this whole Pettersson discussion, and actually a lot of discussion in general, is how we can so quickly move from educated guesses, to repetition of those educated guesses, to fact. The fact is, we don't know what's wrong with him. We do know, because he told us, that he has a knee issue that began at the exact time his production dropped. We do know, because he told us, that that injury hasn't gone away. And we speculate - speculate - that that or other issues have affected him mentally, to the point where he can't play effectively and "fight through it" in a way that is satisfying to watch.

Look, you seem pretty reasonable, so this isn't even really directed at you. I just hate the many examples of mind-reading, body language analyses, uninformed speculation, and various other forms of bullshit that surround this story, both on here and especially on other forms of social media. People really can't tell nonsense from fact, or maybe they don't even care to tell. Again, not directed at you, but it just drives me nuts.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Yeah, the one he wasn't held out of the lineup for at any point, even late in the season when they had the chance?

He didn't even sit out the final road trip of the season where Miller, Boeser and Hronek sat out.

A completely meaningless road game which had no effect on the standings whatsoever, and he chooses to fly out to Winnipeg instead of resting at home? Doesn't sound like the actions of an injured player.

Miller sat it out, and he refuses to sit when he's hurt. Hell Hronek refused to even admit he had an injury for ages and he sat this game out.

 

[Leif Rohlin]

The injury thing seemed like a legitimate explanation last year but at this point I'm not buying it. I don't believe this management group would sit and do nothing if their highest paid player was experiencing this much of a drop in performance for this long because he was trying to play through an injury.

If he was physically limited to that degree it would have been obvious when he came into camp, and they wouldn't have had him go through training camp and preseason hoping it just magically gets better. Literally, think about how stupid our entire coaching staff and management would have to be.

I also don't think he's just sulking or mailing it in because he doesn't care or whatever. I don't get that vibe and it doesn't make sense logically - if he didn't want to be here he would have just asked to be moved... instead of, you know, signing a long-term contract with a no-movement clause.

I think he has to be going through something pretty serious mentally. I could be wrong and I hate speculating about something like that but It's the most likely scenario when I look at the whole situation. If that is the case there probably isn't a solution, you just have to hope he finds his way out of it.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

If there truly is a brewing mental health side to this a trip to the player assistance program might be in his future. Starting to get Laine vibes.

 

[F A N]

Now, as to why EP is playing uninspired is completely up in the air. I'm of the opinion it is mental health related and I wonder how much slack he'd be given if his last name was Rypien and/or he was a 'character' guy.

He would be given a lot of slack and most of the board would be understanding and be supportive of him. With that said, I think hockey fans do judge different types of mental health struggles differently. Repeat offenders in terms of substance abuse is treated different (e.g. Nichushkin).

If you're dealing with a severe mental illness it can be very hard to do even the most basic things, so yeah, it could be entirely possible he's 'mailing it in.' But again, the reason why could be any number of things (mental health, lazy/unmotivated player, voodoo hex, aliens replaced him with a clone, or a longterm nagging injury no one has talked about or discussed and has been dragging him down for a year+...sorry, I know I'm kind veering into the fantastical here...)

Something is up with him, but unless he talks, there is no way of knowing what it is.

My position when it comes to Petey is all about finding a solution. If something is up with him the team needs to do something. Now maybe the team is already doing something which is playing him and let him work out his issues.

 

[Jay26]

The injury thing seemed like a legitimate explanation last year but at this point I'm not buying it. I don't believe this management group would sit and do nothing if their highest paid player was experiencing this much of a drop in performance for this long because he was trying to play through an injury.

If he was physically limited to that degree it would have been obvious when he came into camp, and they wouldn't have had him go through training camp and preseason hoping it just magically gets better. Literally, think about how stupid our entire coaching staff and management would have to be.

I also don't think he's just sulking or mailing it in because he doesn't care or whatever. I don't get that vibe and it doesn't make sense logically - if he didn't want to be here he would have just asked to be moved... instead of, you know, signing a long-term contract with a no-movement clause.

I think he has to be going through something pretty serious mentally. I could be wrong and I hate speculating about something like that but It's the most likely scenario when I look at the whole situation. If that is the case there probably isn't a solution, you just have to hope he finds his way out of it.

This post is word for word how I see the situation currently. I know it's frowned upon to speculate but I do it from a place of genuine concern (and some frustration, yes), not to be a dick. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think most people here can say that too. I hope either I'm wrong and my speculation is misguided or that he does indeed get the help he needs. I've been there.

 

[Jay26]

Most people might agree, and I might even join them, but it's worth pointing out that none of us actually know much of anything. What bothers me about this whole Pettersson discussion, and actually a lot of discussion in general, is how we can so quickly move from educated guesses, to repetition of those educated guesses, to fact. The fact is, we don't know what's wrong with him. We do know, because he told us, that he has a knee issue that began at the exact time his production dropped. We do know, because he told us, that that injury hasn't gone away. And we speculate - speculate - that that or other issues have affected him mentally, to the point where he can't play effectively and "fight through it" in a way that is satisfying to watch.

Look, you seem pretty reasonable, so this isn't even really directed at you. I just hate the many examples of mind-reading, body language analyses, uninformed speculation, and various other forms of bullshit that surround this story, both on here and especially on other forms of social media. People really can't tell nonsense from fact, or maybe they don't even care to tell. Again, not directed at you, but it just drives me nuts.

I get you, but honestly what else do you expect? Like MS has said, this is a BIG deal! People aren't magnifying something trivial. We aren't exactly making a mountain out of a molehill. Like it or not, it's going to be top of the agenda pretty much everyday until we at least see some consistent life from the team's $11.6M man.

I didn't want to say anything the other day during the Pittsburgh game because I didn't want to ruin the mood and I want to support Pettersson, but even when he scored he was emotionless. There was a fist pump sort of but he didn't look like someone who just needed to get the monkey off his back. He looked like someone whose circumstances weren't going to change one bit as a result of that goal. And we saw that next game against Carolina.

It's just so hard to watch as a fan, and honestly, as a fellow human being.