Value of: Edmonton & Boston - not realistic but curious

[wintersej]

The Bruins aren’t in a position to make that deal. They’re already one top 7 forward short. More importantly they shouldn’t be looking to add a forward who next season will command 12-13m+ as a UFA when they already pay Pastrnak 11.25m. That’s a fast way to becoming the Leafs or Oilers (top heavy teams).

Pesce Kotkaniemi 1st for Draisaitl Campbell & 1st type deal. Solid RH shot top 4 dman, young top 6 center, swap the 1sts for getting rid of Campbell. RNH then shopped for a goalie. Not this exact deal but something of this ilk.

Paying Drai + McDavid isn't the problem. Its paying Nurse 9.5 and Campbell 5 instead of McAvoy 9.5 and Ullmark 5.

 

[TheNumber4]

The Bruins aren’t in a position to make that deal. They’re already one top 7 forward short. More importantly they shouldn’t be looking to add a forward who next season will command 12-13m+ as a UFA when they already pay Pastrnak 11.25m. That’s a fast way to becoming the Leafs or Oilers (top heavy teams).

Pesce Kotkaniemi 1st for Draisaitl Campbell & 1st type deal. Solid RH shot top 4 dman, young top 6 center, swap the 1sts for getting rid of Campbell. RNH then shopped for a goalie. Not this exact deal but something of this ilk.

Trash. Wouldn’t touch that deal with a 10 foot pole for Drai.

 

[TheNumber4]

Paying Drai + McDavid isn't the problem. Its paying Nurse 9.5 and Campbell 5 instead of McAvoy 9.5 and Ullmark 5.

Nurse at 9.5 won’t be an issue and itlll become apparent very soon here.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Trash. Wouldn’t touch that deal with a 10 foot pole for Drai.

Yeah, neither would I. Pesce is a pending UFA and I'm not a fan of Kotkaniemi either, he's a low end 2nd liner. RNH lite. Easy pass from Edmonton.

I do like that Boston couldn't possibly do the deal because it hurts their top 7 forwards but Edmonton is supposed to trade both Draisaitl and RNH and only get Kotkaniemi back to replace them?

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Foegele-Kotkaniemi-Brown
Holloway-McLeod-Janmark
Erne-Hamblin-Ryan

Jesus christ. Expansion teams have better forward groups. We could barely make ONE powerplay unit, never mind two!

 

[wintersej]

Nurse at 9.5 won’t be an issue and itlll become apparent very soon here.

Yeah, I am not a Nurse hater, but you wish he was your #2 and paid accordingly. There is a reason that Fox, McAvoy, Makar, Heiskanenen and Hughes are all on top 8 teams. Of course, every single team has something imperfect about them in a cap world, you can't afford to fill every hole ideally.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yeah, neither would I. Pesce is a pending UFA and I'm not a fan of Kotkaniemi either, he's a low end 2nd liner. RNH lite. Easy pass from Edmonton.

I do like that Boston couldn't possibly do the deal because it hurts their top 7 forwards but Edmonton is supposed to trade both Draisaitl and RNH and only get Kotkaniemi back to replace them?

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Foegele-Kotkaniemi-Brown
Holloway-McLeod-Janmark
Erne-Hamblin-Ryan

Jesus christ. Expansion teams have better forward groups. We could barely make ONE powerplay unit, never mind two!

Just a bunch of spare parts for Hart winner and all time playoff performer. And maybe more important than all that, is he wants to win here and he’s McD’s ride or die. As the Oilers that always has to in consideration when moving players

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I’d take sway over drai 6 out of 7 days a week. Drai is a passenger . Shitty attitude, refuses to play defense, doesn’t really produce unless he’s with Mcdaddy .

 

[Score08]

We’ll see how good he is when he signs elsewhere in FA and doesn’t have mcdavid to lunch off of. Guy is a passenger.

 

[Hookslide]

Marchand is a huge whiny pissbaby that licks dudes?

Wow !!! I, guess you don't like him...... But let me give you something to ponder, Marchand has more Stanley Cup Rings and been to the Cup finals more well I guess that is a no brainer because McDavid none..........But he does look good just does not know how to win .

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Wow !!! I, guess you don't like him...... But let me give you something to ponder, Marchand has more Stanley Cup Rings and been to the Cup finals more well I guess that is a no brainer because McDavid none..........But he does look good just does not know how to win .

Which has nothing to do with his attitude, right? And everything to do with the fact that he's played on better teams, as he's a career sub PPG player in the playoffs and McDavid and Draisaitl are the best playoff performers since Lemieux?

 

[Hookslide]

Which has nothing to do with his attitude, right? And everything to do with the fact that he's played on better teams, as he's a career sub PPG player in the playoffs and McDavid and Draisaitl are the best playoff performers since Lemieux?

Yeah but they don't play that many games, oh by the way how is their golf game, they have advantage over other players because they get a early start over most NHL players.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Yeah, neither would I. Pesce is a pending UFA and I'm not a fan of Kotkaniemi either, he's a low end 2nd liner. RNH lite. Easy pass from Edmonton.

I do like that Boston couldn't possibly do the deal because it hurts their top 7 forwards but Edmonton is supposed to trade both Draisaitl and RNH and only get Kotkaniemi back to replace them?

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Foegele-Kotkaniemi-Brown
Holloway-McLeod-Janmark
Erne-Hamblin-Ryan

Jesus christ. Expansion teams have better forward groups. We could barely make ONE powerplay unit, never mind two!

You’d have a better defense, a legit starting goaltender, and more importantly cap space to add a forward or two in free agency

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You’d have a better defense, a legit starting goaltender, and more importantly cap space to add a forward or two in free agency

what cap space? Pesce and Kotkaniemi make more than Draisaitl does, and what legitimate starting goaltender is available and makes less than RNH's 5.1? There's no cap space. In fact there's negative cap space.

Arguably the resulting team is worse than what we've got now and every bit as capped out. Yeah we dump Campbell off a cliff but that's not making a big difference.

Pesce makes, what, 5.5-6 on a new contract? We open up 3M to add forwards?

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Foegele-Kotkaniemi-Brown
Holloway-McLeod-Janmark
Erne-Hamblin-Ryan

Nurse-Pesce
Ekholm-Bouchard
Kulak-Ceci

Magic New Guy RNH Trade Return
Skinner

That team is gross, man.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Paying Drai + McDavid isn't the problem. Its paying Nurse 9.5 and Campbell 5 instead of McAvoy 9.5 and Ullmark 5.

Every team has its bad contracts. Edmonton is no different. Name a team who’s been in the Cup Finals recently with two forwards making north of 11m+. There may be one or two but it’s not common.

 

[GOilers88]

Isn't that the reason why you are getting Swayman for Pickard?

The "fall off" on wing/D is well worth the huge upgrade in goal IMO. Grz is sneaky good defensively. Super heady player.

The only MAJOR issue with this deal is contracts... all three of the bruins are in contract years and due for big raises, so it helps us for 6 months and then who knows what.

I'm not really a fan of DeBrusk at all so swapping him and Hyman seems like a decent loss for the Oilers up front, nevermind the work ethic he brings in comparison. He's heart and soul.

Will concede that maybe the drop from Ekholm to Gryz isn't huge, but I'm also a big fan of Ekholm, and he's been about as steady and consistent on the blueline as anyone could expect out of a guy pretty much his whole career. He seems to fit well with the group and by all accounts seems to enjoy Edmonton. No need to rock the boat there.

Swayman is an upgrade on Skinner, but I wonder how much of that is due to the defensive acumen of Boston compared to Edmonton. They're a very responsible group and have been for years, so I think he benefits from that whereas our goalies don't have the same fallback. Despite his struggles this year, I do believe in Skinner, and I think he has it in him to become a legit starter. A large part of that also falls on the team in front of him, much like the Bruins in front of Swayman. It's hard for me to say you could just swap the two and Swayman would have the same results here as he does in Boston. I think Skinner would look good behind that Bruins team, but he is at this point a step down from Swayman, I can't disagree there.

The contract thing is also a pretty large factor as well. Swayman will get a good raise. It would be brutal to swap out Hyman for DeBrusk only to have Jake falter here and potentially not be with the team long term and lose Hyman to do it.

I think the smarter approach would be to get out of Campbell's contract, and simply acquire a goalie to help insulate Stu so he has someone to fall back on, and that doesn't have to be a really expensive goalie. Then you look to move a couple of far less impactful contracts like Ceci and Foegele (who I really like this year) and find a solid steady partner to add to Ekholm on our blueline. Simply swapping him with Gryz doesn't make our defense better, imo. Seems lateral at best, and a downgrade of some sort at worst.

 

[Oates2Neely]

what cap space? Pesce and Kotkaniemi make more than Draisaitl does, and what legitimate starting goaltender is available and makes less than RNH's 5.1? There's no cap space. In fact there's negative cap space.

Next season will be the last of Draisaitl current deal. He will be making north of 12m by the start of the 2025 season (McDavids final year of his deal at age 29).

In:
Kotkaniemi 4.8m
Pesce 5.5m* ?
Ullmark 5m (hypothetical)
Total 15.3m

Out:
Draisaitl 8.5m
Campbell 5m
Nugent Hopkins 5.125
Total 18.625

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Next season will be the last of Draisaitl current deal. He will be making north of 12m by the start of the 2025 season (McDavids final year of his deal at age 29).

In:
Kotkaniemi 4.8m
Pesce 5.5m* ?
Ullmark 5m (hypothetical)
Total 15.3m

Out:
Draisaitl 8.5m
Campbell 5m
Nugent Hopkins 5.125
Total 18.625

so again I ask you , how are you fixing this forward group

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Foegele-Kotkaniemi-Brown
Holloway-McLeod-Janmark
Erne-Hamblin-Ryan

with the 3.3 million in cap space a (shitty) Draisaitl trade has opened up? You can't. You've just moved the holes around and traded a top 5 forward in the game for random stuff. Teams do NOT get better by trading the likes of Draisaitl. I'd rather have him making 12 million than Kotkaniemi and Pesce making 10.

 

[Oates2Neely]

so again I ask you , how are you fixing this forward group

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Foegele-Kotkaniemi-Brown
Holloway-McLeod-Janmark
Erne-Hamblin-Ryan

with the 3.3 million in cap space a (shitty) Draisaitl trade has opened up? You can't. You've just moved the holes around and traded a top 5 forward in the game for random stuff. Teams do NOT get better by trading the likes of Draisaitl. I'd rather have him making 12 million than Kotkaniemi and Pesce making 10.

That’s fair. I assumed the addition of a right hand shot top 4 D would be a big factor.

By 2025 it’s fair to assume Edmonton paying 25m to Draisaitl & McDavid. Possibly 28m if McDavid commands 15m on his next deal at age 29. Assuming he’s up for staying in Edmonton.

Nobody is taking Nurse, nobody is taking Campbell without a MAJOR incentive piece. I don’t see many paths for the Oilers improve. Their 2024 1st could def net them some help.

 

[5 14 6 1]

We’ll see how good he is when he signs elsewhere in FA and doesn’t have mcdavid to lunch off of. Guy is a passenger.

This is certainly a take. Number 3 playoff PPG of all time and Art Ross + Hart winner when McDavid was injured

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That’s fair. I assumed the addition of a right hand shot top 4 D would be a big factor.

By 2025 it’s fair to assume Edmonton paying 25m to Draisaitl & McDavid. Possibly 28m if McDavid commands 15m on his next deal at age 29. Assuming he’s up for staying in Edmonton.

Nobody is taking Nurse, nobody is taking Campbell without a MAJOR incentive piece. I don’t see many paths for the Oilers improve. Their 2024 1st could def net them some help.

You can get guys like Brett Pesce without having to deal Draisaitl though. That's the thing. Yes, Edmonton needs a RD and a goalie, but those aren't things that should require a trade of that magnitude. Other teams address those issues all the time without having to do so.

I would absolutely have the 2024 1st and any prospect on the table though.

 

[WPGDEVILS]

Every team has its bad contracts. Edmonton is no different. Name a team who’s been in the Cup Finals recently with two forwards making north of 11m+. There may be one or two but it’s not common.

how much were crosby and malkin making when they won? 11m now would be very similar to that

 

[bucks_oil]

In fairness, Lysell has always been in proposals because he is the ONLY Bruins prospect that people valued outside of Boston before Poitras and Lorhei popped this year.... but I totally hear what you are saying.

Lol... that's exactly why I put him in... knew nothing of your prospects, checked draft history, found few 1st rounders and he looked like he was progressing well/reasonably in the A.

 

[wintersej]

This is certainly a take. Number 3 playoff PPG of all time and Art Ross + Hart winner when McDavid was injured

I DO think it’s fair to question McDrai commitments to two way play. The box + 1 system that Boston and Vegas use that EDM tried to adopt requires the center to really act as a 3rd D. Drai especially has the build to do that, but it was obviously a disaster. But even before that, the commitment to two way play has been wanting, issues with the D group and goalie aside. It’s the kind of thing the Boston org would ship someone out of town for, even back to Joe Thornton. Doesn’t mean that poster is right, but I think that’s where that poster is coming from. There are many paths to win outside of the Boston religious orthodoxy (it’s not like MacKinnon is some two way stalwart) and it’s fair to say that getting on McDrai’s case about commitment to two way play is pretty far down the Oilers list. But in a fantasy world where the Bruins somehow got Drai those demands would be there.

 

[Score08]

I DO think it’s fair to question McDrai commitments to two way play. The box + 1 system that Boston and Vegas use that EDM tried to adopt requires the center to really act as a 3rd D. Drai especially has the build to do that, but it was obviously a disaster. But even before that, the commitment to two way play has been wanting, issues with the D group and goalie aside. It’s the kind of thing the Boston org would ship someone out of town for, even back to Joe Thornton. Doesn’t mean that poster is right, but I think that’s where that poster is coming from. There are many paths to win outside of the Boston religious orthodoxy (it’s not like MacKinnon is some two way stalwart) and it’s fair to say that getting on McDrai’s case about commitment to two way play is pretty far down the Oilers list. But in a fantasy world where the Bruins somehow got Drai those demands would be there.

The problem I have is with people way overblowing his trade value . The oilers aren’t in any position of strength to ask for what he’s worth, they’re screwed if he has no intention of re signing. If they know he’s not resigning, they’ll be taking 50 cents on the dollar to salvage something. Does anyone really believe the management team that created this mess is going to make the soundest decision when it comes to trading him?
Then start adding variables like his poor defensive play, the questions of how he’ll play away from mcdavid. I think there’s a way overblown expectation of his realistic trade value .

Fwiw , he’s obviously one of the top offensive players in the game and would kill to have him on my team, but I just don’t see the reason any team needs to fleece their organization to get him, the oilers are dead men walking and don’t have much leverage.

 

[M Ace]

If you think he is going to get 50+ points on the power play away from McDrai operating an all time best power play, more power to you. I see a career of evidence of him being a 2nd line producer with some good versatility. The Bruins already have a younger one of those named Pavel Zacha.m

RNH i certainly first line caliber these days. Zacha is second line until he proves he can provide ppg hockey!