Post-Game Talk: ECQF 3 (Flyers lead series 2-1): FLYERS 1 vs. Canadiens 0, Sunday, Aug. 16, 2020

StarterHart

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You'd never know from this thread this is a team that has won 15 out of their last 17 games.
Odd
How many games have they lost since the trades?
Must suck to not be able to enjoy that ride...

It is possible to enjoy winning streaks and playoff runs without burying your head in the sand and ignoring alarming trends and decisions. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. The goal after all, is a Cup, not an early playoff exit, so it's ok to worry about things that could prevent a talented team from having a shot at that goal. Must suck to not be able to enjoy that ride without telling other people how to be fans.
 

LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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You'd never know from this thread this is a team that has won 15 out of their last 17 games.
Odd
How many games have they lost since the trades?
Must suck to not be able to enjoy that ride...

Probably because people see what’s potentially in front & don’t want to waste the opportunity by not maximizing things when there’s glaring issues at hand. Just because we’re winning doesn’t mean that everybody is pulling their weight out there as well as guys going well above their means to make up for that.

I want to possibly win the cup. I don’t just want to possibly beat the Montreal Canadiens in the first round.
 
Feb 19, 2003
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How much worse can it get? We’re at about ground level in those areas with no signs of improvement as currently constructed.

You can’t keep mucking it up & hoping for Carter Hart to bail you out. We’ve scored 2, 0, & 1 goals this series against the 12th seed team coming into this whole thing. That’s unacceptable.

I agree. I was just posing the question. I actually want to see him in. Frost 3C Grant 4C
 
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Cmoneyflyguy

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I've watched every game for the last 30 years (practically). Seems to me the finger should be pointed at our highest paid players who aren't scoring. Not Nate Thompson and our (deserved) COY candidate. But I guess if your charts tell you Frost and Farabee are the answer - ok. That's not what the eye test says. Have fun kiddos.

LGF!!
 
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deadhead

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NAK didn't have shots. 6 minutes a night under Hakstol isn't a shot.

Again, we really have no idea who of these players they've missed on; because, they missed. Like I said, these guys pretty much have to blow the doors off to stick. In the last decade we also have Gus, who outperformed half our defense and wasn't appreciated despite being a clear roster upgrade. Morin outperformed Hagg and other existing dmen, and never got a real shot. Frost is currently being neglected for no good reason. Bunnaman too. What impact is that having on their development and perception?

The Pimp has skill, but he flat-out wasn't turning it into something at the NHL level. That's hardly all his fault. The people in charge of making him an NHL player are to blame too.

If Laughton had been the same player, but had been taken a few rounds later, he wouldn't be on this team or have had the chances he has year after year. Who else can fall into that camp?

I mean really, what do you think is more likely? That they've erred and missed on some players, or have never made this error and haven't ever missed on anyone?

Gustafsson played 91 games with the Flyers and 9 PO games, he certainly got a full shot, his issues were probably more about style of play than talent, then jumped to the KHL at 26 and either never tried or no one was interested in him returning to the NHL.

The Pimp lacks heart, played 35 games in two years, 7 hits, 8 blocked shots.
A bottom six player with average speed and good size who wants to be a finesse center has no NHL future - that's not a coaching issue, that's a scouting issue, he lacks the intangibles for a bottom six role and the talent for a top six role. His only hope is to improve his offensive skill package to the point someone takes a chance on him as a 3C down the road.

Morin blew out his knee, Hextall made it clear he wanted to use all three defensemen that year, but Morin simply couldn't stay on the ice, Hagg got first call b/c he could play both sides, Morin is strictly a LHD.

Bunnaman is 21, got a shot out of camp, failed miserably, got a second shot and played on a regular basis. He's struggling to find a role and style, he's not a playmaker at center or a great scorer at LW, but once he improved his skating showed potential as a checking 4C - and that's what young players have to do to buy time to develop their skills at a NHL record.

Laughton as a 3rd rd pick would have stayed in the AHL until he was 22/23 and developed an all around game suited to a bottom six role. He ws rushed b/c he was a 1st rd pick, then sent down when it was obvious he wasn't ready.
 

Beef Invictus

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I've watched every game for the last 30 years (practically). Seems to me the finger should be pointed at our highest paid players who aren't scoring. Not Nate Thompson and our (deserved) COY candidate. But I guess if your charts tell you Frost and Farabee are the answer - ok. That's not what the eye test says. Have fun kiddos.

LGF!!

The eye test tells us that Thompson was awful and because he got more ES shifts than superior players, was a major reason why the team didn't look good.

The numbers just specify how bad he was.
 

Strawberry Fields

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People here were critical of the top players for the last week or so. Plenty of people saying they needed to contribute. The first line played well last night and scored the only goal. Hence fewer criticisms right now, today, with more criticism being focused on last night's duds. This is not to say that they're totally excused, but they're not an immediate concern at the current moment, either.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Still the best Flyers quote I’ve heard in some time. Goddamn right, Nic.



If you worked your ass off for three years, how come you weren't busting your butt every shift for those 15 shifts a night?
That was the difference this year with NAK, when he returned he had realized that nothing is given, it must be taken.

That's what stands out about Pitlick, have you ever seen him coast through a shift?
 
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Beef Invictus

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Gustafsson played 91 games with the Flyers and 9 PO games, he certainly got a full shot, his issues were probably more about style of play than talent, then jumped to the KHL at 26 and either never tried or no one was interested in him returning to the NHL.

The Pimp lacks heart, played 35 games in two years, 7 hits, 8 blocked shots.
A bottom six player with average speed and good size who wants to be a finesse center has no NHL future - that's not a coaching issue, that's a scouting issue, he lacks the intangibles for a bottom six role and the talent for a top six role. His only hope is to improve his offensive skill package to the point someone takes a chance on him as a 3C down the road.

Morin blew out his knee, Hextall made it clear he wanted to use all three defensemen that year, but Morin simply couldn't stay on the ice, Hagg got first call b/c he could play both sides, Morin is strictly a LHD.

Bunnaman is 21, got a shot out of camp, failed miserably, got a second shot and played on a regular basis. He's struggling to find a role and style, he's not a playmaker at center or a great scorer at LW, but once he improved his skating showed potential as a checking 4C - and that's what young players have to do to buy time to develop their skills at a NHL record.

Laughton as a 3rd rd pick would have stayed in the AHL until he was 22/23 and developed an all around game suited to a bottom six role. He ws rushed b/c he was a 1st rd pick, then sent down when it was obvious he wasn't ready.

Gus' style was precisely what the team lacked and needed. They erred.

"Lacks heart" is an empty platitude. Maybe what you mean to say is "lacked needed coaching and mentorship."

Before Morin blew out his knee he was outperforming numerous guys, including Hagg. They erred.

Struggling to find a role and style is something I'd expect coaching to help with.

Laughton as a 3rd rounder wouldn't still be with this team 8 years later. Full stop. They do not give players of his caliber that much time or leeway otherwise.
 

Beef Invictus

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If you worked your ass off for three years, how come you weren't busting your butt every shift for those 15 shifts a night?
That was the difference this year with NAK, when he returned he had realized that nothing is given, it must be taken.

That's what stands out about Pitlick, have you ever seen him coast through a shift?

If Pitlick were suddenly given two random shifts a period without having any chance of getting into a groove he would look worse.
 

Beef Invictus

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I find it sad that some people can't enjoy us leading a playoff series for the first time in 8 years. But to each their own. I choose not to be miserable just because I don't like 100% of the lineup.

I want a Cup. What I see is unlikely to bring that. I'm thoroughly done humoring poor choices and going "aw shucks maybe next year." A lead is nice, but it's not that much.
 
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LegionOfDoom91

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People here were critical of the top players for the last week or so. The first line played well last night and scored the only goal. Hence fewer criticisms right now, today.

The top line essentially won us last night’s game (same with Sanheim/Myers pairing & Hart). Obviously they had the only goal of the game but even beyond that they controlled the play when out there.

The rest of the team was pretty brutal.

I’m not blaming them for the PP when it has been an issue all year & was essentially getting by on a shooting heater. Bombing point shots from 20 feet away isn’t a good recipe for PP success. Not to mention the god awful player deployment.
 
Feb 19, 2003
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People here were critical of the top players for the last week or so. Plenty of people saying they needed to contribute. The first line played well last night and scored the only goal. Hence fewer criticisms right now, today, with more criticism being focused on last night's duds. This is not to say that they're totally excused, but they're not an immediate concern at the current moment, either.

They have to find a way to be quicker in puck decisions. Any delay and the Habs are all over the puck carrier. The team defense was much better last night.
Want to see more out of the forecheck
 
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deadhead

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Gus' style was precisely what the team lacked and needed. They erred.

"Lacks heart" is an empty platitude. Maybe what you mean to say is "lacked needed coaching and mentorship."

Before Morin blew out his knee he was outperforming numerous guys, including Hagg. They erred.

Struggling to find a role and style is something I'd expect coaching to help with.

Laughton as a 3rd rounder wouldn't still be with this team 8 years later. Full stop. They do not give players of his caliber that much time or leeway otherwise.

If you don't hit people and won't block shots, and you're 6'3 200+ lbs, yeah, you lack heart.
I'm not expecting him to be a masher, but those numbers are an order of magnitude below our finesse forwards.
Giroux in 69 games, 45 hits, 16 blocks, JVR 25 and 18 in 66 games, and they are offensively >> Vorobyev.

Morin was going to play that year, Hextall was clear about that in camp, it was all about versatility to start the season. Morin is just bad luck, but we don't know if he'd have been any better than Hagg, he had serious puck handling issues which might have been exposed at the NHL level. Morin was a great dream, the masher defenseman, but then we woke up.
 
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Strawberry Fields

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Winning=/= playing well or sustainably. It'd be different if the Flyers were kicking MTL's asses and people were still whining about nitpicky shit but there's a lot to legitimately criticize. They're up in the series but they're not exactly looking like a team that'll go further than round 2 at the current moment. I'm not one to complain much about this team but it's obvious to see why people aren't satisfied right now.
 

TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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I want a Cup. What I see is unlikely to bring that. I'm thoroughly done humoring poor choices and going "aw shucks maybe next year." A lead is nice, but it's not that much.
We all want the Cup. Game 2 was terrible, but I'm not going to panic until they show me that game wasn't an outlier.
This series hasn't been pretty so far, but that's playoff hockey. Games are tight and often scoring is low. We shouldn't always focus on the what ifs.
 

Beef Invictus

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If you don't hit people and won't block shots, and you're 6'3 200+ lbs, yeah, you lack heart.
I'm not expecting him to be a masher, but those numbers are an order of magnitude below our finesse forwards.
Giroux in 69 games, 45 hits, 16 blocks, JVR 25 and 18 in 66 games, and they are offensively >> Vorobyev.

Morin was going to play that year, Hextall was clear about that in camp, it was all about versatility to start the season. Morin is just bad luck, but we don't know if he'd have been any better than Hagg, he had serious puck handling issues which might have been exposed at the NHL level. Morin was a great dream, the masher defenseman, but then we woke up.


Really? You're leaning this heavily on blocked shots to make a sweeping generalization?
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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If Pitlick were suddenly given two random shifts a period without having any chance of getting into a groove he would look worse.

You don't get into a "groove" on the 4th line, you hit the ice flying and make things happen.
Ask Raffl.

When NAK started doing just that, he stood out.
 

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