Friedman: Dylan Larkin requests trade

[Hodge]

How many 29 year old 1Cs have been traded with 5 years left at a reasonable cap hit? Not sure there's any comparable trades recently to say this at all.

We do have legit NHL insiders disagreeing with you though

Hertl went for a late 1st and a prospect recently drafted with a late 1st just two years ago.

Larkin is better but not by enough to upgrade David Edstrom from the Hertl return to a Caleb Desnoyers. Public trade request also hurts Detroit's leverage.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Detroit fans about to be disappointed

I'm not a Detroit fan at all and what you proposed is horrid for the Red Wings.

Hayton, Beaudoin and a 1st for Larkin is the absolute minimum I could see, which is still a crap deal for Detroit but it's at least better than what you suggested.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Eichel was on another level from Larkin when traded. ROR was a proven playoff performer and Cup winner. Larkin is in the Bo Horvat range. So his value is like what the return for Horvat was. So the return will be good enough for Yzerman to flip for what he needs.

Horvat was a pending UFA when he was traded.

... So no, not really the same value.

 

[datsyukfan]

Horvat was a pending UFA when he was traded.

... So no, not really the same value.

Eichel also had serious injury concerns at the time

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Again, I don't think there's any PTSD or underrating of Yurov. (For anyone not just being intentionally ridiculous) It's just I don't see how getting another Kasper/Danielson prospect helps us.

They're just all building blocks. Obviously the job isn't done for you, but I actually really believe that if we had 3 Eriksson Ek's this season, we're still playing. Or even 2 JEE's and an 80% JEE (or whatever).

I understand that this is a rough sell, but I'm actually not really trying to "sell" Yurov as a return for Larkin anymore. More just trying to inform about a player that I think can be misconstrued based their Hockey Reference page.

 

[TheImpatientBoomer]

Do some realize 1sts netted in a trade can be moved for other players?
They dont all have to be drafted and developed...

I do think DET and most fans in general overrate the potential returns on their star/best players but sometimes quantity can be turned into quality as well, just depends on how good of a GM you have.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Billy likes him. We need a center. He's friends with Hughes. It's perfect. Now lets start discussing what it will take.

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, but I think an expanded list rules Minnesota out.

 

[Ace]

Trying to compare it to Eichel with his neck injury and RoR and the forced internal deadline to move him before his bonus was due isn’t really making arguments in good faith. Buffalo got lucky that Tage broke out…the owner handicapped the GM bad because he didn’t want to pay the bonus. It was take the best offer you can get by this hour or else. And Tage…well…people may not remember this but during expansion a couple years later there was genuine debate about leaving him exposed. A local reporter said the only reason he wasn’t is that the owner didn’t want egg on his face from the trade. It took time for any part of the return to look like anything. It was a terrible trade until Tage flipped a switch one offseason.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

They're just all building blocks. Obviously the job isn't done for you, but I actually really believe that if we had 3 Eriksson Ek's this season, we're still playing. Or even 2 JEE's and an 80% JEE (or whatever).

I understand that this is a rough sell, but I'm actually not really trying to "sell" Yurov as a return for Larkin anymore. More just trying to inform about a player that I think can be misconstrued based their Hockey Reference page.

I understand that they're building blocks, but if we're building a bathroom, having three sinks and no toilet isn't ideal lol.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

How many 29 year old 1Cs have been traded with 5 years left at a reasonable cap hit? Not sure there's any comparable trades recently to say this at all.

We do have legit NHL insiders disagreeing with you though

O'Reilly was a 27 year old with 5 years left. Maybe a less reasonable cap hit at the time. 1C vs. 2C idk. Worse offensively and better defensively, whatever that adds up to.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I understand that they're building blocks, but if we're building a bathroom, having three sinks and no toilet isn't ideal lol.

Unless one of those sinks sits low and has a garbage disposal.

 

[newfy]

Hertl went for a late 1st and a prospect recently drafted with a late 1st just two years ago.

Larkin is better but not by enough to upgrade David Edstrom from the Hertl return to a Caleb Desnoyers. Public trade request also hurts Detroit's leverage.

He was also signed well into an age where he'll be less effective, was coming off a knee surgery, and is definitely not the same level of player as Larkin.

At the time of that trade Hertl was 2 years older, and averaging less than 65 games played a season the previous 4 years combined, coming off surgery, had one 30 goal season his last 4-5 years, and his next highest was 22.

Larkin on the other hand is going on 5 straight 30 goal seasons and has averaged over 70 points a season (with time missed for injuries). Hertl leading up to that trade . 4 leading up for Hertl was 52 points. Larkin has basically averaged Hertls career high in points the last half decade and Hertl hadn't touched his in years.

On top of all that, Larkin is a much better 2 way player and has been lights out internationally the last two years. The fact that Hertl got what he did when he had been such a bandaid should make you realise how much more Larkin is going to get

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Billy likes him. We need a center. He's friends with Hughes. It's perfect. Now lets start discussing what it will take.

Yurov, 1st 2027, Stramel and Ritchie.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Hertl went for a late 1st and a prospect recently drafted with a late 1st just two years ago.

Larkin is better but not by enough to upgrade David Edstrom from the Hertl return to a Caleb Desnoyers. Public trade request also hurts Detroit's leverage.

Hertl's numbers were sinking in SJS and that was during the cap freeze era.

Don't think people quite understand the effect that the cap thaw is has on value. More teams in the mix and availability of talent is in the gutter right now.

 

[Realgud]

Utah is much farther along than RWs

They finished with the exact same amount of points, and that's with DET being in the atlantic. "much farther along"? Maybe possibly after this trade.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Unless one of those sinks sits low and has a garbage disposal.

 

[rynryn]

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, but I think an expanded list rules Minnesota out.

I'd agree, and take no offense. Our cupboards are bare--that's the primary reason I don't want us shipping off both Stramel and Yurov. High picks seem pretty unlikely in the next few years so there would be no hope of home grown guys with top six potential and no trading chips left, so we're left trying to outbid for mid free agents every year operating under a cap with little wiggle room (assuming Quinn re-signs)

 

[north21]

Larkin is headed to Minnesota!

Not confirmed yet, but he is headed to Minnesota. They may announce it next week or before the draft.

You shouldn't toy with us like this.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I'd agree, and take no offense. Our cupboards are bare--that's the primary reason I don't want us shipping off both Stramel and Yurov. High picks seem pretty unlikely in the next few years so there would be no hope of home grown guys with top six potential and no trading chips left, so we're left trying to outbid for mid free agents every year operating under a cap with little wiggle room (assuming Quinn re-signs)

Yeah... And you badly need guys on ELCs and bridge deals if you're gonna be paying $30M+ between two players.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Do some realize 1sts netted in a trade can be moved for other players?
They dont all have to be drafted and developed...

I do think DET and most fans in general overrate the potential returns on their star/best players but sometimes quantity can be turned into quality as well, just depends on how good of a GM you have.

I wouldn’t say fans overrate the returns for star players. I think it’s more fair to say that these deals always include a good young NHL player and that that is very valuable to teams. Pure futures just doesn’t happen with top level players

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

They finished with the exact same amount of points, and that's with DET being in the atlantic. "much farther along"? Maybe possibly after this trade.

...Utah is on the upswing, Detroit has shyte the bed three years in a row in the final months of the Season; they've basically plateaued, at least in Larkin's eyes, it seems...

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Why would Larkin waive for Utah? If he wanted a young team on the fringe he could stay in Detroit

Might get bonus points....

 

[Hodge]

Hertl's numbers were sinking in SJS and that was during the cap freeze era.

Don't think people quite understand the effect that the cap thaw is has on value. More teams in the mix and availability of talent is in the gutter right now.

You're not wrong but Detroit won't be able to take advantage of those market forces here since Larkin's public trade request and full NMC severely limits the number of teams legitimately in the mix.

 

[Grinner]

Yeah, a 20 year old in the KHL up 8 on 2nd place on his team in 5 fewer games was a bit of a head-turner.

I don't think you have a proper appreciation of what it takes to be in the 1C conversation for my favorite team.

It's all there in black and white
I certainly don't tend to wear rose tinted glasses

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

You're not wrong but Detroit won't be able to take advantage of those market forces here since Larkin's public trade request and full NMC severely limits the number of teams legitimately in the mix.

Except we're already finding out that he's apparently receptive to more teams lol. I'm guessing most teams in need of a center are looking at the UFA market and going f*** that, we need to be in on this.

And at the end of the day, Larkin could pull a Panarin and be like f*** you I'm only going to Minnesota... Except that Panarin was expiring in 3 months and NYR was going to lose him for nothing. With Larkin, OK, you only want to go to Minnesota? Well how bad do you want out of here, because Minnesota's not offering enough and other teams are.