Player Discussion Dylan Holloway Part 2 | Coming Off of an Injury and Turning Pro in '21-22

[JustNapalmIt]

Lol and what makes you say it was a terrible pick when he hasn't even stepped into AHL or NHL hockey?

People who really dont have much knowledge like to spout off. Makes them think they are in the know.All too often they look very silly.
Shockingly, a couple of them are in this thread.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I thought Holloway looked very good in the WJC. He was a hound dog on the puck and was all over the place. He earned his time with McMichael and Cozens.

I remember watching him and also seeing how awful Cozens hockey IQ is

 

[McTonyBrar]

Interesting comment, considering I'm one of the more hopeful posters for the next year, and was certainly one of the most positive posters regarding our playoffs this past season (I will argue to my death that if that series is replayed 100 times, we would win 70 times or more).

I'll agree that historically, I have been one of the most negative posters, no doubt about it. But that hasn't been the case recently, as I don't mind much of what we have done recently. Hyman contract is fine, RNH contract is fine, I don't even mind bringing Smith back, I think the Bear trade is a loss long term, but likely a win in the short term, Neal buyout made lots of sense. I even didn't hate the Nurse deal as much as I thought I originally did once I dug into it some more.

Regardless of all that, I don't mind being called out, in fact I admitted that my Broberg comments derailed the thread and stopped commenting about Broberg. But showing some level of simple common decency isn't a very high bar, but yet that low bar wasn't cleared in his reply. Oh well, the sun shall rise.

Hopeful posters?

 

[McTonyBrar]

I thought he looked like a guy with zero offensive potential at the next level. A lot of try, not a lot of results.

With no PP time on a line where Cozens and McMichael would just look for one another and no one else. I hope you saw how low those two players hockey iq seemed

 

[CycloneSweep]

With no PP time on a line where Cozens and McMichael would just look for one another and no one else. I hope you saw how low those two players hockey iq seemed

Such low hockey IQ that one has 16 points in 7 games, the other 8 and Holloway had 2.

I like him Holloway and thought he played well but trying to call the other 2 low hockey IQ is sus

 

[Spawn]

With no PP time on a line where Cozens and McMichael would just look for one another and no one else. I hope you saw how low those two players hockey iq seemed

Sure thing.

Suffice to say, I'm hoping his college play, which by all accounts was incredible, is more indicative of his potential. It should be for sure.

 

[CornKicker]

*Figured I would move the talk here*
The AJHL is a very weird league though. The year Holloway dominated the AJHL a guy a few months younger, Alex Young had 14 less points than him and a guy a year young, Carter Savoie had 15 less points. Young went in the 7th round, Savoie in the 4th. I mean hell, the year that Makar dominated the AJHL there was a kid there named Ty Readman who put up similar numbers (although a center) but today at 23 is only 5'6".

Its a very very hard league to draw conclusions of and with his first university season it was hard to get a read.

Carter Savoie was better than Holloway was in the AJHL too and it didn't get him high drafted.

Every so often you get a great guy out of that league but yeah.

Looking at the 4 guys drafted on either side of Holloway and I think he had the best year out of them all or at least up there
Seth Jarvis - PPG in WHL easier than PPG in Uni
Anton Lundell - Okay, this guy definitely had a better season than Holloway but he was drafted before.
Cole Perfetti - Had a decent world juniors and put up good numbers in the AHL. Holloway looked more dominate imo, but in college
Rodion Amirov - Never liked this prospect and liked Holloways game far more this past year
Kaiden Guhle - Was the guy I really didn't want but didn't play like at all this year, zero read
Lukas Reichel - Definitely think Holloway outperformed him. Reichel did good numbers at the world juniors but I think Holloway was the better player
Dawson Mercer - Good player, always struggle comparing the QMJHL to the other leagues. He was on pace to put up a few more points than Bourgault and I think Holloway is better so...I think he is still ahead here

I'd say in the draft +1 for forwards in that 10-20 mark Holloway is near the top or dead center which makes sense as he went like dead center. He went from feeling like a reach to being picked in the right spot imo.

these are fair points of players in the AJHL but watching Savoie and watching Holloway there is a very distinct difference in the way they play not just in terms of size. Holloway is fantastic with the puck on his stick but he is also a dog in getting the puck back, forecheck, backcheck he literally does everything on the ice. Savoie is a fantastic offensive player and great with the puck on his stick but he never showed that same shift after shift ferocity that holloway has.

Makar is a different beast, you could pick him out in warmups and say he is the best on the ice. his size speed hands skating everything about him was top tier

 

[CornKicker]

There are always conflicting scouting reports but most the ones I read had Broberg extremely raw and of a boom or bust nature. Low hockey IQ but a great physical specimen that skates very fast forward.

I don't believe Broberg pick was originally panned because of "immediate help" but certainly positional need was a big reason.

Edit: also I think Samorukov is next in line to be banging on the door.

the one analysis said that broberg reminded them of darnell nurse with elite skill and lower hockey IQ. I think Nurse has evolved into a fantastic player so lets hope Broberg can do the same. With the makeup of our team now there isnt a rush for him to evolve quickly so that will help him

 

[Aerchon]

We get it you hate Broberg and you've finally found someone who shares your opinion. Hates the "pick" not the "player" while basically responding to every post in the Broberg thread about how much he sucks.

Apologies but this is rich and made me laugh very hard. I almost doubled over at the many likes to it as well.

Everyone hated this "pick" prior to us actually doing it. Love how committed some are to this whole... weird ongoing shenanigans.

We get it. You love Broberg and want to have his babies and you have a fan group to support it.

 

[McJadeddog]

Hopeful posters?

For next year, I would argue yes. I really like our team going into next year to be honest. I think our forwards might be the best forward group in the entire league. Our defence will have some adventurous games, no doubt about that, but they can certainly move the puck. I also think there is a pretty decent chance that Smith is able to have a good year in net again. I think we are going to have to win a lot of game 4-3 and 5-4, but we are one of the only teams in the league that can consistently win those high scoring games. I don't think we are in the top-5 of the league for cup contenders, but I think we are certainly in that next grouping of teams that could go on a run.

But yes, over the past 10-12 years, I certainly haven't been hopeful about much with this team. I would argue that pessimism was warranted, but its water under the bridge one way or the other, so no use re-hashing it all.

 

[CornKicker]

For next year, I would argue yes. I really like our team going into next year to be honest. I think our forwards might be the best forward group in the entire league. Our defence will have some adventurous games, no doubt about that, but they can certainly move the puck. I also think there is a pretty decent chance that Smith is able to have a good year in net again. I think we are going to have to win a lot of game 4-3 and 5-4, but we are one of the only teams in the league that can consistently win those high scoring games. I don't think we are in the top-5 of the league for cup contenders, but I think we are certainly in that next grouping of teams that could go on a run.

But yes, over the past 10-12 years, I certainly haven't been hopeful about much with this team. I would argue that pessimism was warranted, but its water under the bridge one way or the other, so no use re-hashing it all.

i agree with you and i think the key to the season will be scoring first. teams play different when the oilers are up and once they open up their D because they are losing the oilers have to capitalize and bury them.

optimistically speaking im thinking 80-2 maybe 79-2-1

 

[JustNapalmIt]

Apologies but this is rich and made me laugh very hard. I almost doubled over at the many likes to it as well.

Everyone hated this "pick" prior to us actually doing it. Love how committed some are to this whole... weird ongoing shenanigans.

We get it. You love Broberg and want to have his babies and you have a fan group to support it.

I guess it’s better than making pronouncements on draft picks as great or terrible, as if you have ever seen the players play ( ha, that’s a joke), which of course the geniuses on fan boards do right after the draft and subsequent.
Too funny.

 

[CupofOil]

He starts for sure with us this season. Gets his minimum 9 games. He's faster and more physical than most players on our roster.

I'd be really surprised if he starts the season with the Oilers, REALLY surprised. He'd have to go all McDavid in the preseason to have hope IMO.

I know some won't like it, and I'm not crazy about it either, but I think Shore has the inside track on 4th LW. Tippett has stated that he wants 3 scoring lines and a checking/PK specialist line so I have a strong feeling that it'll be Shore-Ryan-Archibald to start unless Benson or Perlini blow the doors off in preseason.

I think Holloway starts in the AHL no matter what and I think it's the smart play since he hasn't play a professional game yet. Let him get prime minutes down there instead of starting on a checking line in the NHL then he can maybe jump right into the top 9 later in the season if he shows out in Bakersfield.

 

[CupofOil]

I feel like a lot of people don't really peg him as a center at the NHL level. More of a winger. I remember at the WJC he played as a winger as well. I think he is a "center if needed" kind of guy.

He played center most of the season at Wisconsin and was quite good there. I'd like the Oilers to groom him at center because of their center weakness in the system and I think he'd hold a lot more long term value to this team as a high end 3rd line center as opposed to a complimentary winger.

I wouldn't put too much stock into him not playing center for Team Canada. That team was filled with players that will be franchise centers at the NHL level.

 

[Aerchon]

I guess it’s better than making pronouncements on draft picks as great or terrible, as if you have ever seen the players play ( ha, that’s a joke), which of course the geniuses on fan boards do right after the draft and subsequent.
Too funny.

To each their own.

I enjoy reading about and watching prospects leading into the draft. I find it fun to get to know the possible prospects that could be our first round selection. I like to poke fun at any team that strays too far from the consensus best pick overall.

With the Broberg pick being leaked like it was everyone had plenty of opportunity to research and formulate an opinion... and to beat that dead horse one more time... There was little to no support for that pick prior to him being drafted.

Now as a player in our system he is developing ok and I hope he does extremly well moving forward. But as a pick, at that time, bliack. Can't say I like, can't say I like it at all.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

To each their own.

I enjoy reading about and watching prospects leading into the draft. I find it fun to get to know the possible prospects that could be our first round selection. I like to poke fun at any team that strays too far from the consensus best pick overall.

With the Broberg pick being leaked like it was everyone had plenty of opportunity to research and formulate an opinion... and to beat that dead horse one more time... There was little to no support for that pick prior to him being drafted.

Now as a player in our system he is developing ok and I hope he does extremly well moving forward. But as a pick, at that time, bliack. Can't say I like, can't say I like it at all.

But the thing is ... there's really not consensus. Each individual NHL team has their own independent list that can show a wild variance in how they perceive teenage talent and its projection for adult performance. We hear all the time team management say 'we can't believe this kid was still available at our pick. We had him much higher on our list!'

Beyond NHL teams that pay professional talent assessors to guide million dollar decision making, the only others with real credibility of people paid for a living to make these talent assessments are NHL central scouting with its global network of birddogs; Bob McKenzie who aggregates a very accurate list of NHL scout rankings; and Craig Button whose a second generation NHL scout (NHL chief scout and NHL executive). The rest are hobbyists who are passionate and have opinions (without of course the skin in the game of accountability and pressure of making million dollar real life decisions on pimple-faced teenagers).

Broberg's been beaten to death. He was top ten ranked (McKenzie) going into the 2019 draft season, dipped abit in his final ranking, and going into the draft in Vancouver buzz was growing that his stock was rising. There is a world for Zegras, Broberg and others will all succeed. But coming from such divergent situations (team, quality of play and competition, stage of physical and mental development, etc.) we all are extremely limited in all of the tools and means to realistically evaluate prospects. Fun to pick our horses in the race but really with no stakes and without the comprehensive resources to truly evaluate.

Juries still out. But as the 2019 crop start their pro journey and on the same footing of development under NHL club control we'll begin to see how and if they are players or not.

Back to Holloway he's looking like an inspired choice whose close to NHL ready with size, skating, aggressive puck hunting mentality, mature defensive game, and centre/wing versatility.

 

[McJadeddog]

Not sure who all has subscriptions to The Athletic, but I was reading Corey Pronman's "Top 25 Oilers prospect list under the age of 23" (NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 25 Edmonton Oilers betting on Kailer Yamamoto to separate from rest) today and something jumped out at my about Holloway. This is a list that Pronman does for every team in the league from what I can see. He has Yams as our #1 and Holloway as our #2 (Bouch was 3 and Broberg was 4, for those that care). Anyway, he has 4 rankings for each player (skating, puck skills, hockey sense, and compete), he adds a shot ranking for players that depend on it a lot (Bouch and Lavoie), but doesn't do it for all players, which is odd, and gives each player a ranking from poor, below average, average, above average in each skill category.

For Yams he ranked his skating as above-average and for Holloway he ranked his skating for average. I thought this was laughably wrong, as I think Holloway might be the 5-6th best skater in the entire Oilers organization already. The only guys I would have clearly ahead of him are McDavid, RNH, McLeod, and Broberg. But Pronman isn't an idiot, so I'm wondering if I am just out to lunch here.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

Not sure who all has subscriptions to The Athletic, but I was reading Corey Pronman's "Top 25 Oilers prospect list under the age of 23" (NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 25 Edmonton Oilers betting on Kailer Yamamoto to separate from rest) today and something jumped out at my about Holloway. This is a list that Pronman does for every team in the league from what I can see. He has Yams as our #1 and Holloway as our #2 (Bouch was 3 and Broberg was 4, for those that care). Anyway, he has 4 rankings for each player (skating, puck skills, hockey sense, and compete), he adds a shot ranking for players that depend on it a lot (Bouch and Lavoie), but doesn't do it for all players, which is odd, and gives each player a ranking from poor, below average, average, above average in each skill category.

For Yams he ranked his skating as above-average and for Holloway he ranked his skating for average. I thought this was laughably wrong, as I think Holloway might be the 5-6th best skater in the entire Oilers organization already. The only guys I would have clearly ahead of him are McDavid, RNH, McLeod, and Broberg. But Pronman isn't an idiot, so I'm wondering if I am just out to lunch here.

Weird. I would have agreed with you. Yams over Bouch is shocking to me as well.

 

[Mr Positive]

But the thing is ... there's really not consensus. Each individual NHL team has their own independent list that can show a wild variance in how they perceive teenage talent and its projection for adult performance. We hear all the time team management say 'we can't believe this kid was still available at our pick. We had him much higher on our list!'

Beyond NHL teams that pay professional talent assessors to guide million dollar decision making, the only others with real credibility of people paid for a living to make these talent assessments are NHL central scouting with its global network of birddogs; Bob McKenzie who aggregates a very accurate list of NHL scout rankings; and Craig Button whose a second generation NHL scout (NHL chief scout and NHL executive). The rest are hobbyists who are passionate and have opinions (without of course the skin in the game of accountability and pressure of making million dollar real life decisions on pimple-faced teenagers).

Broberg's been beaten to death. He was top ten ranked (McKenzie) going into the 2019 draft season, dipped abit in his final ranking, and going into the draft in Vancouver buzz was growing that his stock was rising. There is a world for Zegras, Broberg and others will all succeed. But coming from such divergent situations (team, quality of play and competition, stage of physical and mental development, etc.) we all are extremely limited in all of the tools and means to realistically evaluate prospects. Fun to pick our horses in the race but really with no stakes and without the comprehensive resources to truly evaluate.

Juries still out. But as the 2019 crop start their pro journey and on the same footing of development under NHL club control we'll begin to see how and if they are players or not.

Back to Holloway he's looking like an inspired choice whose close to NHL ready with size, skating, aggressive puck hunting mentality, mature defensive game, and centre/wing versatility.

What makes the Holloway pick truly great is not just the player himself. It's how he fits exactly what the Oilers need. He's a virtual lock to be a success here.

 

[Oilhawks]

Not sure who all has subscriptions to The Athletic, but I was reading Corey Pronman's "Top 25 Oilers prospect list under the age of 23" (NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 25 Edmonton Oilers betting on Kailer Yamamoto to separate from rest) today and something jumped out at my about Holloway. This is a list that Pronman does for every team in the league from what I can see. He has Yams as our #1 and Holloway as our #2 (Bouch was 3 and Broberg was 4, for those that care). Anyway, he has 4 rankings for each player (skating, puck skills, hockey sense, and compete), he adds a shot ranking for players that depend on it a lot (Bouch and Lavoie), but doesn't do it for all players, which is odd, and gives each player a ranking from poor, below average, average, above average in each skill category.

For Yams he ranked his skating as above-average and for Holloway he ranked his skating for average. I thought this was laughably wrong, as I think Holloway might be the 5-6th best skater in the entire Oilers organization already. The only guys I would have clearly ahead of him are McDavid, RNH, McLeod, and Broberg. But Pronman isn't an idiot, so I'm wondering if I am just out to lunch here.

I think Pronman also takes into account edgework etc. I still disagree with him. He actually has Yams as “high-end” for skating (a step above above-average)

Not really a fan of his rankings. He seems overly harsh on some things (like skating). He gave Bouchard a “below average” for puck skills (a guy with near elite passing lol, is his puck handling etc that poor to wipe that out??). He also left Savoie off his “has a chance to play” honourable mentions-type list, which seems kind of absurd

 

[Broberg Speed]

Of course Pronman has Yamamoto rated the highest and has other controversial takes, because it's his job to create sensationalism. Why pass on the opportunity to stupefy the sports end user in concert with the offer sheet narrative when it has so much momentum. It's a sports entertainment melodrama.

 

[Bank Shot]

Corey Pronman is a hockey fan that has worked hard and now has a bit of a platform because of it.

Good for him, but why anyone would read his stuff and then get upset if they disagree with his work is mind bottling to me.

He's just a guy on the internet.

 

[BudBundy]

I think Pronman also takes into account edgework etc. I still disagree with him. He actually has Yams as “high-end” for skating (a step above above-average)

Not really a fan of his rankings. He seems overly harsh on some things (like skating). He gave Bouchard a “below average” for puck skills (a guy with near elite passing lol, is his puck handling etc that poor to wipe that out??). He also left Savoie off his “has a chance to play” honourable mentions-type list, which seems kind of absurd

Edgework must be coming into play here as, at least to my untrained eye, I think Holloway looks like a very fast and powerful skater. Yams picked up a step compared to his early days but I don’t think he’ll ever be a threat to take any defenseman wide like I think Holloway might.

And Bouchard “below average” for puck skills seems absurd. He is very calm with the puck and is an exceptional passer. He isn’t going to dangle past anyone, but how many D in the league try that kind of play? 6?

That said, Lowetide really respects Pronman, and that alone carries a lot of weight with me.

 

[K1984]

Edgework must be coming into play here as, at least to my untrained eye, I think Holloway looks like a very fast and powerful skater. Yams picked up a step compared to his early days but I don’t think he’ll ever be a threat to take any defenseman wide like I think Holloway might.

And Bouchard “below average” for puck skills seems absurd. He is very calm with the puck and is an exceptional passer. He isn’t going to dangle past anyone, but how many D in the league try that kind of play? 6?

That said, Lowetide really respects Pronman, and that alone carries a lot of weight with me.

I actually like Pronman's takes 90% of the time, there are just some weird takes here and there.

Agree on the puck skills, he has no issue skating head up and keeping the puck on a string while in motion. Also has the Matthews style "load and shoot" wrister in his repertoire that isn't possible without hands. His last goal of the season in Vancouver an example of this.

With Bouchard it seems like the narrative of "skating sucks and he isn't good in his own zone, now can't get in the lineup" has stuck to him no matter what he has done to improve in these areas since Junior.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Corey Pronman is a hockey fan that has worked hard and now has a bit of a platform because of it.

Good for him, but why anyone would read his stuff and then get upset if they disagree with his work is mind bottling to me.

He's just a guy on the internet.

He has a name but who reads his stuff? It's paywall stuff. I observe people talking about his stuff every so often, here and there, some of the talkers are paid professionals working for the Edmonton Journal. From which we are rewarded with cascades of hockey insight that's turdalicious.

I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb assuming people ranting with indignation over subject matter they themselves have little knowledge, regarding an article they never actually read, are more entertaining than this Pronman could ever dream to be.