Rumor: DW in panic mode; Clowe Available (Murray and Handzus Gone)

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OffSydes

#tank2014/5
Aug 14, 2011
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If the market is this seller friendly, they could "rebuild" in one season, so please keep loosing !
 

Tkachuk4MVP

32 Years of Fail
Apr 15, 2006
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If the market is this seller friendly, they could "rebuild" in one season, so please keep loosing !


A question for all of you:


If DW finally does start the rebuild (via a good return for Clowe and/or others, letting Handzus go, and making some solid draft picks), would you support keeping him on to see how he handles this next stage? Or is it too little too late?
 

SJeasy

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Feb 3, 2005
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A question for all of you:


If DW finally does start the rebuild (via a good return for Clowe and/or others, letting Handzus go, and making some solid draft picks), would you support keeping him on to see how he handles this next stage? Or is it too little too late?

Too little, too late. For the next stage to work, he needs to fix drafting/development. He has had years to do that.
 

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
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I know you can't compare, but if Murray fetches a 2013 2nd (And the other pick), is it safe to say Clowe will fetch a 1st round pick?
 

Pinkfloyd

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Oct 29, 2006
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A question for all of you:


If DW finally does start the rebuild (via a good return for Clowe and/or others, letting Handzus go, and making some solid draft picks), would you support keeping him on to see how he handles this next stage? Or is it too little too late?

Too little too late. There are far too many things wrong with the organization to let him continue mostly because he is the one that either let it continue or chose the people to do it. I'd let him finish the season...same as McLellan. Then let him go. Even with moving Murray, he still identifies the players as the problem. And while in one sense that is good since they may move some pieces out that need to go, it's bad because he's not holding everyone accountable that ought to be held accountable.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I know you can't compare, but if Murray fetches a 2013 2nd (And the other pick), is it safe to say Clowe will fetch a 1st round pick?

Murray is fetching at worst a 2nd and a 3rd...but probably 2 2nd round picks. Clowe will get at least a late 1st plus.
 

glasgow26

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Jul 17, 2007
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I know you can't compare, but if Murray fetches a 2013 2nd (And the other pick), is it safe to say Clowe will fetch a 1st round pick?

Yes. I think Clowe can fetch us a 1st and a decent prospect. I mean, Morrow cost the Pens their best prospect, and Clowe is a better player. Last year, the Sabres managed to trade Paul Gaustad for a 1st. Clowe can definitely get us a nice return.
 

Tkachuk4MVP

32 Years of Fail
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Too little, too late. For the next stage to work, he needs to fix drafting/development. He has had years to do that.


So there hasn't been enough improvement in that area in recent years (since the Wishart and Seto/Kopitar debacles)? Cooch, Petrecki, Coyle, and Hertl are the only first round picks he's had in the last several years, and maybe I'm overvaluing some of these guys (i.e. Demers, Braun, Nieto, Abeltshauser, O'Regan, Tierney, Hamilton) but I feel like he's been moving in the right direction the past few seasons.
 

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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A question for all of you:


If DW finally does start the rebuild (via a good return for Clowe and/or others, letting Handzus go, and making some solid draft picks), would you support keeping him on to see how he handles this next stage? Or is it too little too late?

As someone who has a little insight into the organization, I think DW stays easily if he can rebuild well. He's iced a SC-competitive team for 5+ years...and he has the assets to be able to retool/refresh. So if he does rebuild well, he stays. The fact that SJ hasn't been able to win a cup these past couple of years is more due to bad luck than anything else.

The critique of DW's drafting and asset management is completely overblown. The Sharks have struggled in picking up steals from the late part of the first-round (steal which are rare); in many cases they haven't had a first round pick because they've moved it in order to try and win a cup. Also, I wish SJ would do a better job identifying top-end defensemen (although they've done OK with Demers, Ehrhoff, etc).

Again, DW runs a very good ship, and has hired some very good people. He tends to have a fascination with certain players that I don't like, and he tends to have certain "deal-breakers" that I think are bad to have, but overall, he's one of the best GMs in the league.
 

hockeyball

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Nov 10, 2007
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So there hasn't been enough improvement in that area in recent years (since the Wishart and Seto/Kopitar debacles)? Cooch, Petrecki, Coyle, and Hertl are the only first round picks he's had in the last several years, and maybe I'm overvaluing some of these guys (i.e. Demers, Braun, Nieto, Abeltshauser, O'Regan, Tierney, Hamilton) but I feel like he's been moving in the right direction the past few seasons.

I agree, and the devil you know can be a lot better than the one you don't. Wilson has improved, quite a bit imo, and we take a huge risk of getting worse instead of better with a wholesale change. What i'm saying is, fire Wilson perhaps, but don't necessarily fire the scouting team.
 

Tkachuk4MVP

32 Years of Fail
Apr 15, 2006
14,841
2,774
San Diego, CA
Too little too late. There are far too many things wrong with the organization to let him continue mostly because he is the one that either let it continue or chose the people to do it. I'd let him finish the season...same as McLellan. Then let him go. Even with moving Murray, he still identifies the players as the problem. And while in one sense that is good since they may move some pieces out that need to go, it's bad because he's not holding everyone accountable that ought to be held accountable.


That's a good point. One of my biggest complaints about DW outside of his 1st round drafting and his obsession with rental players and Cup winners is that he's a bit of a teddy bear who never really holds his players' feet to the fire. I'm guessing it's part of the reason he never gets a true hometown discount and gives almost everyone he signs a NMC.
 

SJeasy

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
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So there hasn't been enough improvement in that area in recent years (since the Wishart and Seto/Kopitar debacles)? Cooch, Petrecki, Coyle, and Hertl are the only first round picks he's had in the last several years, and maybe I'm overvaluing some of these guys (i.e. Demers, Braun, Nieto, Abeltshauser, O'Regan, Tierney, Hamilton) but I feel like he's been moving in the right direction the past few seasons.

The jury is still out on Coyle and Hertl, although Coyle is looking at least OK. His late rounds are still OK, but not great like they once were. He still overvalues size too much in the first. To really go for it at the draft, you have to eschew size as a primary asset for first rounders. Speed and skill have to be at the forefront. And they still aren't getting high end from guys who spend a couple of years in Woostah. The guys who are top 4/top 6 (eg Pavs, Couture) were there before they arrived in Woostah. Sommer hasn't produced a Murray, Clowe, Cheech, Ehrhoff in a loooonnnnggggg time. Guys who develop into high end players by learning in the AHL.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
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The jury is still out on Coyle and Hertl, although Coyle is looking at least OK. His late rounds are still OK, but not great like they once were. He still overvalues size too much in the first. To really go for it at the draft, you have to eschew size as a primary asset for first rounders. Speed and skill have to be at the forefront. And they still aren't getting high end from guys who spend a couple of years in Woostah. The guys who are top 4/top 6 (eg Pavs, Couture) were there before they arrived in Woostah. Sommer hasn't produced a Murray, Clowe, Cheech, Ehrhoff in a loooonnnnggggg time. Guys who develop into high end players by learning in the AHL.

That is because players don't go to the AHL anymore. They join the NHL team as soon as they are ready.

I am sure this is the trend across the league.
 

one2gamble

Registered User
Dec 24, 2007
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That is because players don't go to the AHL anymore. They join the NHL team as soon as they are ready.

I am sure this is the trend across the league.

The Sharks have tended to burry guys in the minors. I doubt Coyle is playing in San Jose if that trade wasnt made.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
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Dave Lozo ‏@DaveLozo 1h
Based on that conference call with Doug Wilson, the next five games are going to decide the fate of a lot of Sharks veterans.

Tank, Sharks, tank!
 

Coily

Gettin' Jiggy with it
Oct 8, 2008
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Dave Lozo ‏@DaveLozo 1h
Based on that conference call with Doug Wilson, the next five games are going to decide the fate of a lot of Sharks veterans.

Tank, Sharks, tank!

5 games? Tery Murray is our next coach

Reading between the lines.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Oct 29, 2006
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Dave Lozo ‏@DaveLozo 1h
Based on that conference call with Doug Wilson, the next five games are going to decide the fate of a lot of Sharks veterans.

Tank, Sharks, tank!

Two against the Ducks, one against the Wings, Coyotes, and Canucks. The problem is that four of the five are at home and even through this mess since February started, the Sharks are 3-1-4 at home so they at least get points, show fight, or whatever. Them tanking is unlikely.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
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Two against the Ducks, one against the Wings, Coyotes, and Canucks. The problem is that four of the five are at home and even through this mess since February started, the Sharks are 3-1-4 at home so they at least get points, show fight, or whatever. Them tanking is unlikely.

Well, we'll for sure lose the one tonight in Anaheim, probably lose against Anaheim Wednesday at the tank. We're a bad matchup with the 'Yotes, so we could very well lose that game. The Canucks are on a roll, so they'll probably beat us, and so are the Wings. I think we have a good chance at a tank.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
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Folsom
Well, we'll for sure lose the one tonight in Anaheim, probably lose against Anaheim Wednesday at the tank. We're a bad matchup with the 'Yotes, so we could very well lose that game. The Canucks are on a roll, so they'll probably beat us, and so are the Wings. I think we have a good chance at a tank.

Oh, I think we'll lose but I think at least three of them happen in OT/SO. lol
 

sjshrky27

Registered User
Jan 15, 2007
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CA
DW stating next 5 games will dictate more player trades. DW making it known where he stands.

Sounds like its on the players shoulders now. Will be interesting if anyone shows up or goes flat.
 
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