Ducks TV For Next Season( What channel?)

duckpuck

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It's odd to me to be so condescending about admittedly vague details, two of which you have already gotten wrong. It took five minutes of light research to find out Anaheim signed a multi-year deal to stream on the new network and that their rights deal with Bally's ended at the conclusion of last season. There are quotes in the original article saying they were negotiating a new deal with Bally's and this new company, they are not beholden to anything.


If you want to play with semantics and argue that there is a world where they end up back on Bally's somehow because this fails spectacularously, ok, but that isn't what you were doing.

It is not that simple. Read the article I posted. The bk agreement extended the rights agreement. The "multi-year'" deal with the new company is subject to whatever the BK court determines Diamond (and its creditors) rights are. The ducks can't sell what they don't own and the ducks don't own the broadcast rights until the BK court says so. There have been no reports of such an order.

Hint: Why are all of the other NHL and NBA teams still on Diamond (for now)? It must be that Diamond has retained NHL and NBA broadcast rights . . .
 
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slippingsloth

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I am just happy it seems like local fans wont be blacked out of most games or have to hunt with vpns or use the terrible ballys app.
 
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Kalv

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Yeah super happy about this even if it doesn't directly impact me. Should been like this long time ago, cheers guys!
 
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Static

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It is not that simple. Read the article I posted. The bk agreement extended the rights agreement. The "multi-year'" deal with the new company is subject to whatever the BK court determines Diamond (and its creditors) rights are. The ducks can't sell what they don't own and the ducks don't own the broadcast rights until the BK court says so. There have been no reports of such an order.

Hint: Why are all of the other NHL and NBA teams still on Diamond (for now)? It must be that Diamond has retained NHL and NBA broadcast rights . . .
All other NHL and NBA teams aren't on diamond. There are several who used Bally's last year to broadcast their games who are no longer doing so this year. It seems pretty obvious that those teams are not part of a diamond sports agreement to broadcast their games this season since...they won't be broadcasting their games this season.

It makes plenty of sense why diamond would extend for a year and why teams would opt into that since it is difficult to find another partner on such short notice. I find it very hard to believe that a team like the Dallas stars, who were also with Bally's until their rights deal expired after last season (exactly like Anaheim), signed an eight year deal with another company knowing that diamond sports had the power to yank them back. That makes no sense.

From what it looks like, Anaheim did not opt into whatever deal the NHL's final handful of teams associated with diamond sports agreed to and it is just now being reported. It would make no sense to sign a multi year deal with another provider if diamond sports still controlled their fate.
 

Static

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Part of this confusion is that diamond sports announced their extension with the NHL and NBA before Anaheim announced they were leaving, but only by a couple of days. Dallas and Florida announced their departures weeks ago, I doubt we still believe they are beholden to the Diamond Sports extension agreement. Probably because that makes no sense!
 

TheStuntman

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As a fan, I wish I had this as a kid. Growing up, I didn't have cable so I can only catch games on KCAL and they were fairly rare.

WIth this arrangement, does the Ducks take a significant revenue hit without the revenue from Bally's/local TV contract? Not sure how this arrangement will replace the revenue. The Sameuli's have taken annual losses while owning the team, even with a local TV contract. I know it's not a huge amount for the local rights, but it wasn't chump change.
 
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ScarTroy

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As a fan, I wish I had this as a kid. Growing up, I didn't have cable so I can only catch games on KCAL and they were fairly rare.

WIth this arrangement, does the Ducks take a significant revenue hit without the revenue from Bally's/local TV contract? Not sure how this arrangement will replace the revenue. The Sameuli's have taken annual losses while owning the team, even with a local TV contract. I know it's not a huge amount for the local rights, but it wasn't chump change.
The exposure to new fans hopefully will outweigh whatever revenue they received from the Ballys contract. We’re all diehards in here, and even myself I found it hard to follow the team with the crappy Ballys app and not having Ballys on YouTube tv.
 

Hockey Duckie

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As a fan, I wish I had this as a kid. Growing up, I didn't have cable so I can only catch games on KCAL and they were fairly rare.

WIth this arrangement, does the Ducks take a significant revenue hit without the revenue from Bally's/local TV contract? Not sure how this arrangement will replace the revenue. The Sameuli's have taken annual losses while owning the team, even with a local TV contract. I know it's not a huge amount for the local rights, but it wasn't chump change.

I dunno. I was thinking about that aspect of taking a revenue hit. B/c of the bankruptcy, the revenue value was already diminishing for all teams under Bally's. Bally's was the only way to watch Ducks hockey locally and Bally's cable reach was smaller when they wanted cable businesses to pay more, which many of those businesses rejecting Bally's.

By departing from Bally's, Anaheim gets two sources of revenue: local tv (KCOP-13) and Victory+ streaming. And b/c Victory+ has expanded the viewing for Ducks' hockey all the way to Hawai'i, then, hopefully, more money is being made. I'm thinking that Victory+ will find your location stream and present ads that are within your local or a 30-mile radius. The expansion of Ducks coverage means more ad space available to sell. Welp, that's my guess as to why the streaming is free.
 
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Hockey Duckie

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If you had an understanding of bankruptcy law and bankruptcy court, you would know this is not correct. They are not necessarily finished with Diamond/Ballys, which is why this is only a one year agreement.


@Static is correct that the business relationship between the Ducks and Bally's had ended.

The Stephen's Athletic article on the Victory+ and Ducks:

Viewers will not need to pay a fee to watch Ducks games, and this partnership ends the Ducks’ association with Bally Sports, which is part of the string of regional networks owned by Diamond Sports Group.
.
Bally Sports offered Ducks games to non-cable/satellite subscribers for a monthly fee to anyone viewing on devices within their market. Some streaming services, however, did not offer the network or have dropped it. While the Ducks continued to negotiate with Diamond after their contract expired, Teats said the Ducks had been looking at different options throughout the summer. Team owners Henry and Susan Samueli signed off on the switch to the ad-supported Victory+. A Parent Media Co., which made its name in children’s programming and content, is increasing its sports portfolio with Victory+.
.​
The deal struck between direct-to-consumer streaming service A Parent Media Co., which runs Victory+, and the Ducks is for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons, with the possibility that it could be extended.

In short, yes, the Ducks have moved on from Bally's and are under contract with Victory+ for two years. The Ducks joined Dallas on the Victory+ platform.
 

Bender66

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They started as kids streaming, with ad supported model.
Then they added subscriber model.

So Ducks are starting with ad supported model, maybe in future they will offer ad-free sub$ option as well.

Ah ... this make sense as to why Dallas picked this tiny kids streamer ...

1724865699278.png
 

TheStuntman

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The exposure to new fans hopefully will outweigh whatever revenue they received from the Ballys contract. We’re all diehards in here, and even myself I found it hard to follow the team with the crappy Ballys app and not having Ballys on YouTube tv.
While I agree with this, hockey is still a niche sport. Having that guaranteed TV money is significant, especially for a small market team like the Ducks.

I dunno. I was thinking about that aspect of taking a revenue hit. B/c of the bankruptcy, the revenue value was already diminishing for all teams under Bally's. Bally's was the only way to watch Ducks hockey locally and Bally's cable reach was smaller when they wanted cable businesses to pay more, which many of those businesses rejecting Bally's.

By departing from Bally's, Anaheim gets two sources of revenue: local tv (KCOP-13) and Victory+ streaming. And b/c Victory+ has expanded the viewing for Ducks' hockey all the way to Hawai'i, then, hopefully, more money is being made. I'm thinking that Victory+ will find your location stream and present ads that are within your local or a 30-mile radius. The expansion of Ducks coverage means more ad space available to sell. Welp, that's my guess as to why the streaming is free.
Yea, I'm curious behind the financial figures of the streaming agreement and the local TV agreement. While cable is dying, the cable agreement did provide a significant amount of revenue for the team. It might be a small revenue loss, but without knowing the figures, it's impossible to determine.
 

Hockey Duckie

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While I agree with this, hockey is still a niche sport. Having that guaranteed TV money is significant, especially for a small market team like the Ducks.

Yea, I'm curious behind the financial figures of the streaming agreement and the local TV agreement. While cable is dying, the cable agreement did provide a significant amount of revenue for the team. It might be a small revenue loss, but without knowing the figures, it's impossible to determine.

Stephens from the Athletic covered this succinctly:

Bally Sports offered Ducks games to non-cable/satellite subscribers for a monthly fee to anyone viewing on devices within their market. Some streaming services, however, did not offer the network or have dropped it.

The revenue was shrinking under Bally's because the coverage shrank. Before Bally's, FS and FSW was on many cable platforms. When Bally's took over for FS and FSW (or rather Regional Sports Networks), they decided to renegotiate the terms with all cable companies b/c Bally's wanted to raise their prices for the RSN's. A lot of cable companies dropped Bally's Sports than to pay more for the RSN's, which would also raise the cable prices to all consumers. It wasn't just Duck fans that were shutout from seeing their team, but also the Angels and Clippers.

Charge more for the service, but shrink the pool of revenue by 75% (I'm guessing here with the percentage). That's why Bally's is in bankruptcy. That's why the Ducks jumped ship to Victory+ and local broadcast (KCOP-13) because they increase the pool of revenue by increasing viewership (or rather increasing ad viewership). Well, that's the two-year gamble the Ducks are taking.
 

eaterfan

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Stephens from the Athletic covered this succinctly:

Bally Sports offered Ducks games to non-cable/satellite subscribers for a monthly fee to anyone viewing on devices within their market. Some streaming services, however, did not offer the network or have dropped it.

The revenue was shrinking under Bally's because the coverage shrank. Before Bally's, FS and FSW was on many cable platforms. When Bally's took over for FS and FSW (or rather Regional Sports Networks), they decided to renegotiate the terms with all cable companies b/c Bally's wanted to raise their prices for the RSN's. A lot of cable companies dropped Bally's Sports than to pay more for the RSN's, which would also raise the cable prices to all consumers. It wasn't just Duck fans that were shutout from seeing their team, but also the Angels and Clippers.

Charge more for the service, but shrink the pool of revenue by 75% (I'm guessing here with the percentage). That's why Bally's is in bankruptcy. That's why the Ducks jumped ship to Victory+ and local broadcast (KCOP-13) because they increase the pool of revenue by increasing viewership (or rather increasing ad viewership). Well, that's the two-year gamble the Ducks are taking.
It's been written about many times. Yes, the cable audience is shrinking, but the operating revenues exceeded operating costs from what's been written. The margins are much smaller than Sinclair was expecting and their purchase of Fox Sports was highly leveraged. the interest is what killed them.
 

duckpuck

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@Static is correct that the business relationship between the Ducks and Bally's had ended.

The Stephen's Athletic article on the Victory+ and Ducks:

Viewers will not need to pay a fee to watch Ducks games, and this partnership ends the Ducks’ association with Bally Sports, which is part of the string of regional networks owned by Diamond Sports Group.
.
Bally Sports offered Ducks games to non-cable/satellite subscribers for a monthly fee to anyone viewing on devices within their market. Some streaming services, however, did not offer the network or have dropped it. While the Ducks continued to negotiate with Diamond after their contract expired, Teats said the Ducks had been looking at different options throughout the summer. Team owners Henry and Susan Samueli signed off on the switch to the ad-supported Victory+. A Parent Media Co., which made its name in children’s programming and content, is increasing its sports portfolio with Victory+.
.​
The deal struck between direct-to-consumer streaming service A Parent Media Co., which runs Victory+, and the Ducks is for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons, with the possibility that it could be extended.

In short, yes, the Ducks have moved on from Bally's and are under contract with Victory+ for two years. The Ducks joined Dallas on the Victory+ platform.

The article from the Athletic today directly contradicts this. Read the article linked below which basically repeats what I posted yesterday. This is still a BK court matter.

And you are missing the distinction between broadcast rights and streaming rights. Not the same thing. Even if Stephens is right (which I don't think he is because he's ignoring the BK implications), Victory+ is only the streaming partner. Every article I've seen announced a one year deal with KCOP 13.


If you're going to be a dick, at least be right.

Maybe you're referring to Stephens? Read the Athletic article I linked above. It explains how this is still pending in (and subject to) BK court resolution.
 

Static

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The article from the Athletic today directly contradicts this. Read the article linked below which basically repeats what I posted yesterday. This is still a BK court matter.

And you are missing the distinction between broadcast rights and streaming rights. Not the same thing. Even if Stephens is right (which I don't think he is because he's ignoring the BK implications), Victory+ is only the streaming partner. Every article I've seen announced a one year deal with KCOP 13.




Maybe you're referring to Stephens? Read the Athletic article I linked above. It explains how this is still pending in (and subject to) BK court resolution.
The nine teams referenced in the portfolio do not include the Florida Panthers or Dallas stars, the two teams Anaheim has followed in severing their deal with diamond sports. It looks like the article was not amended to include yesterday's announcement.

The stephens article is quoting a team executive, unless you believe him to be wrong as well?
 

Hockey Duckie

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The article from the Athletic today directly contradicts this. Read the article linked below which basically repeats what I posted yesterday. This is still a BK court matter.

And you are missing the distinction between broadcast rights and streaming rights. Not the same thing. Even if Stephens is right (which I don't think he is because he's ignoring the BK implications), Victory+ is only the streaming partner. Every article I've seen announced a one year deal with KCOP 13.


Let's follow a time line.

1. Here's an article from KSHB written on Dec 21st, 2023 about Bally's bankruptcy:

The NHL and Diamond Sports Group, the largest owner of regional sports networks, have reached an agreement that will keep local broadcasts for 11 teams on Bally Sports through the end of this season.
.
The NHL teams that are currently on Bally are: Anaheim, Carolina, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Florida, Los Angeles, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis and Tampa Bay

2. Athletic article that was cited by your article, written on Aug 23rd, 2024:

Diamond now would carry 13 NBA teams and nine NHL teams for the leagues’ 2024-25 seasons.
.​
Diamond and Comcast had a dispute that lasted nearly three months this summer, a fight that kept Diamond channels out of the homes of Comcast Xfinity subscribers right in the middle of Major League Baseball’s season. Diamond broadcasts a dozen MLB teams, as well.​
.​
Diamond and Comcast struck a deal that put the games back on at the start of August, but the deal newly put Diamond channels on a tier for Comcast subscribers — meaning, customers have to pay a premium each month to get them.​

3. NHL.com article on Ducks going to Victory+ and KCOP 13, written on Aug 27th, 2024:

The Ducks have partnered with A Parent Media Co. Inc. (APMC), owner of Victory+, and FOX 11 Plus (KCOP Channel 13) to stream/televise all regional Ducks games free of charge beginning with the 2024-25 NHL season. All local games will be available to stream on a newly formed sports network, Victory+, a free direct-to-consumer streaming service created for Ducks fans by APMC. The agreement with FOX 11 Plus will include 65 Ducks games on over-the-air television. As a result, locally broadcast Ducks games will be available to 100% of the Los Angeles regional market, entirely free to all fans.
.
“We want to thank Diamond Sports Group and Bally Sports, and the personnel who have been incredible partners over the last 25 years who brought Ducks hockey to our region and fans.”

4. From "your" Athletic article, Aug 28th, 2024:

Back in January, Diamond Sports Group generated a lot of buzz over a plan that was intended to not only lift the company out of bankruptcy, but also position a behemoth behind it: Amazon. Diamond, the operator of a collection of regional sports networks, had filed for bankruptcy 10 months earlier, and looked to be heading toward liquidation until it proposed the Amazon-backed plan.
.
Diamond holds, and pays for, the broadcasting rights to 34 teams across MLB (12), the NBA (13) and NHL (9), and has operated them under the Bally brand.
.
No such deal exists in MLB, at least not yet. Three of the 12 MLB teams carried by Diamond this year are set to become TV free agents this winter: the Cleveland Guardians, Minnesota Twins and Texas Rangers.

====================

Your article uses an Aug 23rd article as its source of reference. Anaheim announced their departure from Bally's on Aug 27th. The Athletic 23rd article cites how Ballys has problems with Comcast during the MLB season. KSHB's article was written in the middle of the NHL season in late December now makes more sense that there was a deal in place to finish the NHL season. Then take into account how your your article cites three MLB teams set to be free agents and makes you wonder how many NHL teams were set to be free agents from Ballys. We can now look at that KSHB article as it cited 11 NHL teams in late Dec and the Aug 23 Athletic article cites 9 NHL teams under Bally's wing. Apparently, two teams left after the season ended with Tampa on July 2nd, 2024 and Dallas on July 8th, 2024. That would mean at least two NHL teams were free agents and the third would eventually be Anaheim. Unfortunately, the editor on your article missed the ball when Anaheim jumped ship a day before your article was set to publish.

Here's key evidence you missed from the Aug 27th Stephens article: "While the Ducks continued to negotiate with Diamond after their contract expired, Teats said the Ducks had been looking at different options throughout the summer."

Bankruptcy maybe your thing, but following facts, knowing facts, and knowing some editor messed up maybe isn't your thing.
 
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slippingsloth

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Losing Bally revenue matters less as an owner if you made 5billion or more on Broadcom shares this year

To be so wealthy that your NHL revenues are a rounding error
 

duckpuck

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All other NHL and NBA teams aren't on diamond. There are several who used Bally's last year to broadcast their games who are no longer doing so this year. It seems pretty obvious that those teams are not part of a diamond sports agreement to broadcast their games this season since...they won't be broadcasting their games this season.

It makes plenty of sense why diamond would extend for a year and why teams would opt into that since it is difficult to find another partner on such short notice. I find it very hard to believe that a team like the Dallas stars, who were also with Bally's until their rights deal expired after last season (exactly like Anaheim), signed an eight year deal with another company knowing that diamond sports had the power to yank them back. That makes no sense.

From what it looks like, Anaheim did not opt into whatever deal the NHL's final handful of teams associated with diamond sports agreed to and it is just now being reported. It would make no sense to sign a multi year deal with another provider if diamond sports still controlled their fate.

@Static is correct that the business relationship between the Ducks and Bally's had ended.

The Stephen's Athletic article on the Victory+ and Ducks:

Viewers will not need to pay a fee to watch Ducks games, and this partnership ends the Ducks’ association with Bally Sports, which is part of the string of regional networks owned by Diamond Sports Group.
.
Bally Sports offered Ducks games to non-cable/satellite subscribers for a monthly fee to anyone viewing on devices within their market. Some streaming services, however, did not offer the network or have dropped it. While the Ducks continued to negotiate with Diamond after their contract expired, Teats said the Ducks had been looking at different options throughout the summer. Team owners Henry and Susan Samueli signed off on the switch to the ad-supported Victory+. A Parent Media Co., which made its name in children’s programming and content, is increasing its sports portfolio with Victory+.
.​
The deal struck between direct-to-consumer streaming service A Parent Media Co., which runs Victory+, and the Ducks is for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons, with the possibility that it could be extended.

In short, yes, the Ducks have moved on from Bally's and are under contract with Victory+ for two years. The Ducks joined Dallas on the Victory+ platform.

If you're going to be a dick, at least be right.

The nine teams referenced in the portfolio do not include the Florida Panthers or Dallas stars, the two teams Anaheim has followed in severing their deal with diamond sports. It looks like the article was not amended to include yesterday's announcement.

The stephens article is quoting a team executive, unless you believe him to be wrong as well?

Let's follow a time line.

1. Here's an article from KSHB written on Dec 21st, 2023 about Bally's bankruptcy:

The NHL and Diamond Sports Group, the largest owner of regional sports networks, have reached an agreement that will keep local broadcasts for 11 teams on Bally Sports through the end of this season.
.
The NHL teams that are currently on Bally are: Anaheim, Carolina, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Florida, Los Angeles, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis and Tampa Bay

2. Athletic article that was cited by your article, written on Aug 23rd, 2024:

Diamond now would carry 13 NBA teams and nine NHL teams for the leagues’ 2024-25 seasons.
.​
Diamond and Comcast had a dispute that lasted nearly three months this summer, a fight that kept Diamond channels out of the homes of Comcast Xfinity subscribers right in the middle of Major League Baseball’s season. Diamond broadcasts a dozen MLB teams, as well.​
.​
Diamond and Comcast struck a deal that put the games back on at the start of August, but the deal newly put Diamond channels on a tier for Comcast subscribers — meaning, customers have to pay a premium each month to get them.​

3. NHL.com article on Ducks going to Victory+ and KCOP 13, written on Aug 27th, 2024:

The Ducks have partnered with A Parent Media Co. Inc. (APMC), owner of Victory+, and FOX 11 Plus (KCOP Channel 13) to stream/televise all regional Ducks games free of charge beginning with the 2024-25 NHL season. All local games will be available to stream on a newly formed sports network, Victory+, a free direct-to-consumer streaming service created for Ducks fans by APMC. The agreement with FOX 11 Plus will include 65 Ducks games on over-the-air television. As a result, locally broadcast Ducks games will be available to 100% of the Los Angeles regional market, entirely free to all fans.
.
“We want to thank Diamond Sports Group and Bally Sports, and the personnel who have been incredible partners over the last 25 years who brought Ducks hockey to our region and fans.”

4. From "your" Athletic article, Aug 28th, 2024:

Back in January, Diamond Sports Group generated a lot of buzz over a plan that was intended to not only lift the company out of bankruptcy, but also position a behemoth behind it: Amazon. Diamond, the operator of a collection of regional sports networks, had filed for bankruptcy 10 months earlier, and looked to be heading toward liquidation until it proposed the Amazon-backed plan.
.
Diamond holds, and pays for, the broadcasting rights to 34 teams across MLB (12), the NBA (13) and NHL (9), and has operated them under the Bally brand.
.
No such deal exists in MLB, at least not yet. Three of the 12 MLB teams carried by Diamond this year are set to become TV free agents this winter: the Cleveland Guardians, Minnesota Twins and Texas Rangers.

====================

Your article uses an Aug 23rd article as its source of reference. Anaheim announced their departure from Bally's on Aug 27th. The Athletic 23rd article cites how Ballys has problems with Comcast during the MLB season. KSHB's article was written in the middle of the NHL season in late December now makes more sense that there was a deal in place to finish the NHL season. Then take into account how your your article cites three MLB teams set to be free agents and makes you wonder how many NHL teams were set to be free agents from Ballys. We can now look at that KSHB article as it cited 11 NHL teams in late Dec and the Aug 23 Athletic article cites 9 NHL teams under Bally's wing. Apparently, two teams left after the season ended with Tampa on July 2nd, 2024 and Dallas on July 8th, 2024. That would mean at least two NHL teams were free agents and the third would eventually be Anaheim. Unfortunately, the editor on your article missed the ball when Anaheim jumped ship a day before your article was set to publish.

Here's key evidence you missed from the Aug 27th Stephens article: "While the Ducks continued to negotiate with Diamond after their contract expired, Teats said the Ducks had been looking at different options throughout the summer."

Bankruptcy maybe your thing, but following facts, knowing facts, and knowing some editor messed up maybe isn't your thing.

Wow - the weirdest thing happened in the past 2 days. First, the bankruptcy judge approved the Diamond Sports/Bally's plan to continue broadcasting NHL Games.


And now, there are reports that Amazon is negotiating with Diamond/Bally's to provide streaming of NHL games, including Anaheim.

"In the NHL, sources said Amazon is now in talks to broadcast all local games this season for the Anaheim Ducks, Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota Wild, Nashville Predators, St. Louis Blues and Tampa Bay Lightning."


Amazing - who could have ever predicted that?

And just to be clear, this is not a sure thing and their are lots of permutations (i.e., KCOP keeps local games and Amazon has streaming rights. Or Amazon does not begin streaming until next year. Or that Victory + keeps the local streaming rights for a shorter period). My guess is the ducks contracts with KCOP and Victory+ have an out tied to the bk results.

It just reinforces what I said before - the ducks rights are still tied up in BK and there is no assurance the newly announced contracts with KCOP and/or Victory+ will ever be implemented or last for 2+ years..
 

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