Proposal: Ducks - Leafs Blockbuster

[WhatTheDuck]

The deal still does more for Anaheim than Toronto. Toronto is more win now mode and give up the best asset by far and what they are giving Anaheim in this deal could very well negate the value of the 1st as the supposedly equalizer of the trade. This trade could easily turn Anaheim having a top 10 pick to a middle 10 pick.

Anaheim was second worst in the league last year with a historically futile powerplay and have made zero improvements to this point. I really doubt swapping out Lindholm and Rakell for Rielly and Marner is going to push them up out of the bottom five or ten.

Marner is a good player and has been highly productive surrounded by other offensive talents, but trying to carry the Ducks offense along side a rookie Zegras would be a whole different ball game.

Any way I don't think we need to go too much into this as I think most of us agree that it's highly unrealistic.

 

[TBF1972]

marner was overpaid from the first day the contract was signed. flat cap increased the pain of his aav for teams spending to the cap.
teams interested in marner as a win now piece will have to send cap the other way to make room under the cap.
teams with the required cap space are mostly rebuilding (or have equal or more important pieces needing a new contract soon) and won't offer their best future assets. they need them to build their team. cap space will be the best asset offered from their side.

leaf fans, who still dream of cap space + top rated future assets for marner, should better not wake up.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't think this is a deal that either team makes.

Lindholm is a very good D, and possibly better overall than Rielly, but he has had some injury and durability concerns. Rakell too, he's a solid player, but not near Marner.

Marner despite his playoff struggles, is an elite playmaking forward. Leafs want to compete now... so while the 1st is very attractive, it doesn't help NOW. This trade makes the Leafs worse NOW.

On the flipside, why would the Ducks move a potential lottery pick? They are rebuilding, and quality picks are key to rebuilds, no matter how attractive Marner is as a player.

As a Leafs fan, I'd love Comtois, and the Manson of a few years ago... I know Comtois isn't available, but he'd be a great addition to the Leafs... and I know we can't turn back time on Manson.. but full respect to these players.

 

[RickyLafleur]

UMMM WTF is this????
Marner and Rielly for 2 UFA's and a 1st???
If Marner is going you are parting with 1 or 2 of your top prospects
Think Zegras+Drysdale+1st for Marner+Rielly

Lmao 2 blue chip prospects + a top 5 pick >>> 2 expensive playoff chokers

 

[TBF1972]

Anaheim was second worst in the league last year with a historically futile powerplay and have made zero improvements to this point. I really doubt swapping out Lindholm and Rakell for Rielly and Marner is going to push them up out of the bottom five or ten.

Marner is a good player and has been highly productive surrounded by other offensive talents, but trying to carry the Ducks offense along side a rookie Zegras would be a whole different ball game.

Any way I don't think we need to go too much into this as I think most of us agree that it's highly unrealistic.

people look at the 2022 1st like any future asset. from anaheim point of view it could be:
marner and rielly
for
lindholm and rakell
and
SHANE WRIGHT

they shouldn't trade wright for marner and also not the next three to four guys in the draft.

 

[tkb81]

why you gotta troll the leaf fans .. haha but realistically the leafs will never a cup with 49.84% its cap space tied up to 4 players .. just doesn't leave enough room to build a balanced team, but of course 87% of leaf fans wont agree with this statement ...

*edit this is why i could see them trading one of the top 4 this season or next

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Shane Wright could be the next big thing, but as bad as Marner's contract is you cannot say other prospects are "extremely likely" to be better than a guy who has put up multiple seasons over point per game. He is one of the best playmakers in this league and doesn't deserve the hate he gets sometimes.

Lambert and Savoie definitely have higher ceilings, and they are natural centers

 

[Adam da bomb]

Lmao 2 blue chip prospects + a top 5 pick >>> 2 expensive playoff chokers

The choker comment is unnecessary, but asking for zegras, dry, a top 5 pick for Marner and a UFa is a little unrealistic.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Nothing is certain when A) You have arguably the best center prospect in hockey (Zegras), B) One of the best defensive prospects (Drysdale), C) A Vezina calibre goaltender (Gibson) when at the top of his game, D) When you're playing in the weakest division in the league and E) The draft lottery.

Yeah, as a Ducks fan, I'd like to hold onto our pick. Chances, like you point out, are good we are gonna suck again and I imagine the chances of re-signing Rielly (and later, Marner) would be slim to none.

With that said, Toronto is trying to win the cup now and while Lindholm and Rakell would be nice additions, losing Marner is a big subtraction. No matter how poor his playoff performance was, you don't trade a player of his calibre for two pending UFA's, significantly shortening your window of possibly winning. Especially when you factor in how injury prone Lindholm is. You add him for one year, and he may not even be healthy come playoff time.

Never said it was certain, hence "99%" but being a great center prospect doesn't mean anything. They will just be slightly better than last year. Drysdale is also not going to make a difference for at least another year

 

[ToDavid]

Anaheim is probably a bottom 3 team next year and the top 3 in the 2022 draft are all extremely likely to be better than Marner and fit their timeline better. I think it's pretty justified to want to keep that pick

Sure, it's perfectly fine to suggest Anaheim might prefer to keep the pick and go after one of those top guys from the 2022 draft. That may work better for their rebuild timeline. But that's a different argument then "This is so f***ing bad for Anaheim", which is what the original comment said.

I also think "the top 3 in the 2022 draft are all extremely likely to be better than Marner" is a classic overvaluing of draft picks. He was a 90 point winger by age 21. That's extremely rare, even for highly touted first overalls.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Sure, it's perfectly fine to suggest Anaheim might prefer to keep the pick and go after one of those top guys from the 2022 draft. That may work better for their rebuild timeline. But that's a different argument then "This is so f***ing bad for Anaheim", which is what the original comment said.

I also think "the top 3 in the 2022 draft are all extremely likely to be better than Marner" is a classic overvaluing of draft picks. He was a 90 point winger by age 21. That's extremely rare, even for highly touted first overalls.

I don't think its an overvaluing of draft picks at all, Wright is literally putting up better numbers than McDavid, Lambert is projected to be around a Matthews level center, Savoie a bit lower.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Lambert and Savoie definitely have higher ceilings, and they are natural centers

You're overvaluing prospects completely. Marner put up 94 points his 3rd year in the league. And has continued to be over point per game since then. Yes Lambert and Savoie could do that, but they haven't even skated in their draft years yet so lets hold our horses. As for the natural centers point, I've seen some say Lambert is a C/W which is exactly the same as Marner when we was drafted.

 

[AvroArrow]

This is so f***ing bad for Anaheim...


They are absolutely a bottom 10 team next year if not bottom 5.


That pick alone is worth far more to the Ducks then a UFA in Rielly and an overpaid winger in Manrer. They have absolutely zero need given the current ongoing rebuild for either player and most certainly not at the cost of a Top 10 1st.


The fact Rakell and Lindholm are added is just absolutely awful for the Ducks.

you forget the sarcasm emoji or is this a real post ?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You're overvaluing prospects completely. Marner put up 94 points his 3rd year in the league. And has continued to be over point per game since then. Yes Lambert and Savoie could do that, but they haven't even skated in their draft years yet so lets hold our horses. As for the natural centers point, I've seen some say Lambert is a C/W which is exactly the same as Marner when we was drafted.

I'm not saying Toronto should do the trade, all I'm saying is there is good logic to Anaheim preferring to take their shot at Shane Wright or the very good consolation prizes

 

[Legion34]

Cause every team will trade their top2 prospect and a 1st rd pick for an overpaid winger who disapears in the playoffs, and a one way offensive d-man who's a future UFA looking to get paid ala Seth Jones right?

not every team.
Just the smart ones

 

[Superlative Soup]

Marner
Rielly

for

Lindholm
Rakell
2022 1st round pick (unprotected)

I do think Ducks would like to re-sign both their guys, as Toronto likely would Rielly. But, just a proposal for fun, anyhow.

For Anaheim:
- get a superstar young winger signed long-term to make part of their core.
- get a more offensive-minded D with a booming shot for their powerplay

For Toronto:
- Marner to Rakell is certainly a downgrade, but, I feel Rakell in a contract year, new team who is competing now and superstar centres can easily return to a 30G player. There are significant savings here though, which Toronto can use to add additional scoring depth.
- Lindholm is a different kind of defender to Rielly and I feel gives the Leafs a better balance and playoff style.
- The unprotected pick could very easily be a top pick, securing the Leafs a top-tier youngster to extend their window with

Rielly has one of the biggest muffin shots in the league

 

[Arthuros]

One of those situations where Marner is (likely) more valuable to the Leafs than the 1st pick, and vice versa.

 

[Rengorlex]

I don't think its an overvaluing of draft picks at all, Wright is literally putting up better numbers than McDavid, Lambert is projected to be around a Matthews level center, Savoie a bit lower.

Lambert is currently arguably on a trajectory to drop out of top 10 and certainly doesn't project anywhere near Matthews. Wright might be a Matthews level talent, those two project significantly lower.

 

[Kalv]

I would rather keep Lindholm over RIelly can we take them both out?
Not that it matters tho, because no way Leafs touch it If they want to trade manner who yes, is overpaid a bit, but would receive much better offers for the Leafs than this one.

 

[McDonald19]

Pass

Ducks should continue the rebuild.

 

[Russian Factor]

People are starting to talk a little too crazy about Marner. Only this board could find a way to make a f***ing Leafs player underrated

 

[PAZ]

I actually think if Toronto wanted a shake-up, this type of deal would be pretty good for them, assuming Lindholm could be extended. Lindholm + Rakell would cost the same as Marner. They could then use that 1st to acquire an asset to get more depth, while still having Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews for the next few years.

I don't think this would be the final deal, but IMO the foundation makes sense.

 

[ToDavid]

I don't think its an overvaluing of draft picks at all, Wright is literally putting up better numbers than McDavid, Lambert is projected to be around a Matthews level center, Savoie a bit lower.

There's an argument for Wright but he's also only played one season in the OHL. Amazing numbers but 3 seasons before his draft, it's no guarantee of anything (not that it's at all his fault he couldn't play last year, which sucks).

I've not seen anyone project Lambert or Savoie to be around Matthews' level.

Nevermind the fact that, best case scenario, a pick only has a 18.5% shot at 1st overall and going into the season, even a team that's expected to be bad isn't guaranteed last so it's something less than that.

So we're talking about trading Marner for a pick that has an 8.5%-18.5% chance (assuming we're confident the Ducks will be bottom five) to become Shane Wright, a player who has looked amazing but has yet to play beyond their rookie OHL season.

 

[lwvs84]

A major deal between these teams doesn't make sense. Something smaller that adds a player to Toronto (Rakell/Manson/etc.) would probably make more sense and likely something closer to the deadline. All of the championship teams have been built through the draft and supplemented through FA/trade, and that's what the Ducks need to do.

 

[glenbuis]

UMMM WTF is this????
Marner and Rielly for 2 UFA's and a 1st???
If Marner is going you are parting with 1 or 2 of your top prospects
Think Zegras+Drysdale+1st for Marner+Rielly

how much are the leafs retraining there ? 100% maybe?