Proposal: Duchene to Winnipeg, Stone to Calgary, Dzingel & Pageau to Edmonton, Ceci to Minnesota

[bert]

eh i just dont find his playing style to fit with faster teams or i just gate his face idk i cld be biased

Doesnt seem to me like you actually watch the player. He plays his best with fast players that are heavy on the forcheck. Thinks and plays the game incredibly fast.

I know as a sens fan its going to be a dissapointing return. The organization is a joke and the sales pitch to the fans has less legs than greasy used car salesmans last breath before he is arrested by the IRA.

 

[drewjenks]

1. Matt Duchene to Winnipeg for Laurent Brossoit + 2019 1st round pick + 2020 2nd round pick (becomes a 2020 1st round pick if Duchene re-signs with Winnipeg or if the Jets appear in the cup finals) + Mathieu Perreault (full cap - 4.125Mx3)

Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler
Ehlers - Duchene - Laine
Vesalainen - Little - Roslovic
Lemieux - Lowry - Tanev

Morrissey - Trouba
Chariot - Byfuglien
Kulikov - Myers

Hellebuyck
Comrie

The Jets get the best center to hit the TD market in quite a while to complement their impressive set of wingers and complete their forward core. They become a formidable cup contender with the addition of Duchene.
Ottawa gets a goaltender that has posted solid numbers at every level he’s played and has shown this year that he just might be ready to become an NHL starter. While having lost a step, Perreault can still be a decent top 9 player, though definitely overpaid at this stage. The draft picks are self-explanatory.


2. Mark Stone to Calgary for Rasmus Andersson + 2019 1st round pick + 2020 1st round pick + James Neal (full cap - 5.75Mx5)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Stone
Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik
Czarnik - Ryan - Hathaway

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki/Kylington - Stone

Rittich
Smith

The Flames get rid of Neal’s massive contract while acquiring one of the league’s best two-way winger.
Ottawa gets a very good young defenseman with top 4 upside and a pair of late firsts for Stone + Neal’s putrid contract.


3. Ryan Dzingel (1.8Mx1) + JG Pageau (50% salary retained - 1.55Mx2) to Edmonton for 2019 1st round pick + 2020 2nd round pick + Ryan Spooner (Full cap - 3.1Mx2)

Dzingel - McDavid - Draisaitl
Khaira - RNH - Yamamoto
Chiasson - Pageau - Puljujarvi
Lucic - Brodziak - Kassian

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Russell
Jones - Bouchard

Koskinen
Talbot

Edmonton gets some much needed affordable quality up front to complement their high end talent.
Ottawa gets draft picks, retains on Pageau and takes on Spooner’s contract to make the cap work for Edmonton.


4. Cody Ceci to Minnesota for Charlie Coyle

Greenway - Staal - Kunin
Zucker - Koivu - Granlund
Parise - Rask - Aberg
Foligno - Eriksson EK - Brown

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba*
Seeler - Ceci

Dubnyk
Stalock

1 for 1 hockey deal. Change of scenery for two similarly inconsistent and maligned players. Ceci’s a RFA at the end of the season while Coyle has another year on his deal before becoming a UFA. Ceci replaces Dumba while the latter’s injured, provides an upgrade on Pateryn and perhaps trives alongside a steady Jonas Brodin. Coyle gets the chance to play top minutes and be an important piece up front for a rebuilding team.


OTTAWA

Tkachuk - White - Coyle
Neal - Tierney - Ryan
Perreault - Chlapik - Batherson
Boedker - Paul - xxx

Chabot - Demelo
Wolanin - Andersson
Lajoie - Jaros

Brossoit
Nilsson

BELLEVILLE

Balcers - Brown - Sturtz
Formenton - Norris - Rodewald
Klimchuk - Spooner - Luchuk
Tambellini - Kelly - Lindberg

Percy - Burgdoerfer
Falk - Elliott
Murray - Goloubef
Englund

Daccord
Gustafsson​

Buyout/Release/Giveaway: Craig Anderson, Zack Smith, Mike Condon, Mark Borowiecki, Magnus Paajarvi, Ben Harpur, Patrick Sieloff, Julius Bergman, Max McCormick, Marcus Hogberg

2019: CGY 1st round pick, EDM 1st round pick, WPG 1st round pick, OTT 2nd round pick, SJS 2nd round pick
2020: OTT 1st round pick, CGY 1st round pick, SJS 1st round pick, OTT 2nd round pick, EDM 2nd round pick, WPG 2nd round pick*

1. When was the last time someone paid two 1st round picks + to rent a single player?
2. When was the last time Dorion got a great return in a trade?
3. When was the last time Melnyk accepted a cap-dump without giving one away?

If you can answer these questions I will accept your proposals.

Otherwise - we should accept that Stone, Duchene & Dzingel will walk for nothing.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Jack Roslovic would be an intriguing trade target for the Penguins

the jets are probably gonna trade for brassard instead and surrender roslovic

I don't see anybody in Winnipeg being pleased with that kind of outcome. I'd rather have Roslo line up at 2C than Brassard. If we were to acquire Brassard, a 2nd is the highest I'd go. If Pittsburgh wants more than that, they can find it elsewhere. I don't see him as a top 6 player in Winnipeg.

 

[Jeti]

Too much for Duchene. Losing Perreault and Brossoit hurts them as much as Duchene helps them. Little is a decent second line center - the reason that line struggles is that Laine has been struggling. If you move Perreault, that takes away another guy that you could bump up into a top 6 role who's known for getting his lines going (so Little would probably become that guy). If Hellebuyck struggles or gets hurt and they don't have a good backup, that's it for their playoffs.

I also don't see the Jets trading their firsts in back-to-back years. They're a draft and develop organization.

I'd send Stanley (recent first round pick) + Perreault + 2nd for Duchene.

The Coyle trade is embarrassingly bad.

 

[stempniaksen]

1. When was the last time someone paid two 1st round picks + to rent a single player?
2. When was the last time Dorion got a great return in a trade?
3. When was the last time Melnyk accepted a cap-dump without giving one away?

If you can answer these questions I will accept your proposals.

Otherwise - we should accept that Stone, Duchene & Dzingel will walk for nothing.

You're not wrong on your first 3 points, but I don't see how that leads to those three walking for nothing.

Dealt for minimal returns and next to money coming back? Sure.
Outright walking away in the summer? Not a chance in hell.

 

[TFHockey]

Edmonton definitely needs to make some changes up front, but coughing up a first + 2nd for Dzingel (pending UFA) and Pageau @ 50% isn't really a good way to do it. Even with a short term dump like Spooner added in. That trade favors the Sens.

 

[stempniaksen]

Edmonton definitely needs to make some changes up front, but coughing up a first + 2nd for Dzingel (pending UFA) and Pageau @ 50% isn't really a good way to do it. Even with a short term dump like Spooner added in. That trade favors the Sens.

Yeah, I think that ship sailed when Chiarelli was fired. Value wise I don't think a (late) 1st + 2nd for Dzingel + Pageau is too far off, but obviously that Oilers pick has the potential to be pretty high. I still think these two teams are interesting trade partners, but Dzingel to the Oilers probably died the minute Chia was let go.

 

[TFHockey]

Yeah, I think that ship sailed when Chiarelli was fired. Value wise I don't think a (late) 1st + 2nd for Dzingel + Pageau is too far off, but obviously that Oilers pick has the potential to be pretty high. I still think these two teams are interesting trade partners, but Dzingel to the Oilers probably died the minute Chia was let go.

I don't think Ottawa let's any of the players mentioned in the OP walk for nothing like that other poster stated. They'll get something at the TDL for sure. What will it be? That's the question.

It is giant leap but would Dorion take salary back in one of those trades? Like more than Spooners?

 

[stempniaksen]

I don't think Ottawa let's any of the players mentioned in the OP walk for nothing like that other poster stated. They'll get something at the TDL for sure. What will it be? That's the question.

It is giant leap but would Dorion take salary back in one of those trades? Like more than Spooners?

I'm sure not every Sens fan would agree with me, so grain of salt, but if the Karlsson trade is any indication I think the Senators want to take back the least amount of salary possible. I don't think they'd have any interest in taking back a cap dump for a guy like Ryan Dzingle for example, as his salary is so low for this year. They might look at taking salary back in a Stone/Duchene move if those come to fruition, but that would probably be more of necessity and would probably be a guy like Spooner (see Chris Tierney in the EK deal).

I think the only guys the Senators would be okay taking back money for are Zack Smith, Mike Condon and Craig Anderson (but again, that will be more out of necessity, because those three aren't moving without rentention or a cap dump coming back).

 

[Empoleon8771]

A general rule of thumb on this website: if a thread has a bunch of proposals that end up netting their team multiple 1st rounders, the proposals are likely horrible for the other teams. Like in this thread, the proposals are just bad. You're not getting 2 1sts for a pending UFA Duchene or Stone, and you're definitely not getting a 1st for a package of Pageau and a pending UFA Dzingel. The Minnesota proposal is an abomination.

Jack Roslovic would be an intriguing trade target for the Penguins

the jets are probably gonna trade for brassard instead and surrender roslovic

I would build a shrine for Rutherford if he somehow managed to get Roslovic for Brassard, that would be so dumb for the Jets to make that trade.

 

[KevinRedkey]

1. When was the last time someone paid two 1st round picks + to rent a single player?
2. When was the last time Dorion got a great return in a trade?
3. When was the last time Melnyk accepted a cap-dump without giving one away?

If you can answer these questions I will accept your proposals.

Otherwise - we should accept that Stone, Duchene & Dzingel will walk for nothing.

1. The Hossa trade to PIT as it included a 1st, and their most recent 1st +
2. 1st + 3rd + Gustavsson for Brassard
3. Alex Burrows

That said, it wasn't my proposal. I just wanted to see if it could be answered. lol

A general rule of thumb on this website: if a thread has a bunch of proposals that end up netting their team multiple 1st rounders, the proposals are likely horrible for the other teams. Like in this thread, the proposals are just bad. You're not getting 2 1sts for a pending UFA Duchene or Stone, and you're definitely not getting a 1st for a package of Pageau and a pending UFA Dzingel. The Minnesota proposal is an abomination.

You get a great rental in Dzingle, who is worth at least a 2nd (likely more), and then a solid 3C with term.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but OTT would definitely get a 1st+ for a package of Pageau and Dzingle.

 

[TFHockey]

I'm sure not every Sens fan would agree with me, so grain of salt, but if the Karlsson trade is any indication I think the Senators want to take back the least amount of salary possible. I don't think they'd have any interest in taking back a cap dump for a guy like Ryan Dzingle for example, as his salary is so low for this year. They might look at taking salary back in a Stone/Duchene move if those come to fruition, but that would probably be more of necessity and would probably be a guy like Spooner (see Chris Tierney in the EK deal).

I think the only guys the Senators would be okay taking back money for are Zack Smith, Mike Condon and Craig Anderson (but again, that will be more out of necessity, because those three aren't moving without rentention or a cap dump coming back).

Yeah I agree. That is basically my take on the Sens outside looking in. Edmonton would probably put their 1st in play but it would have to be a really good return for them to do so. That means money going out as well. Spooner, Kassian, Rieder, Manning are all short term cap dumps but cap dumps none the less. I don't see a 1st in play with them. Benning and Talbot actually have value and should bring a positive return. I don't mean a big haul, but they are an add to a deal, not a negative as some people have portrayed. Maybe Rieder fits here was well because he is a fast skater and is good on the PK. His offense has dried up though. I see them as TDL minor (insurance for the playoffs) acquisitions.

Lucic's is the contract we have to move at some point. Whether this is to Vancouver with assets going their way or in the Seattle expansion draft with assets going their way. In either case he has to waive.

Once Chiarelli was fired the push to save his job with a trade for a UFA pretty much evaporated.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You get a great rental in Dzingle, who is worth at least a 2nd (likely more), and then a solid 3C with term.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but OTT would definitely get a 1st+ for a package of Pageau and Dzingle.

Let me rephrase, you definitely don't get a potential lottery 1st for that package. Teams don't trade mid to high 1sts for lesser parts. Hell, I don't even know if teams with lower 1sts would trade a 1st for a collection of lesser assets. Speaking generally, teams don't like trading 1st round picks for quantity. If you're offering quantity, you'll get quantity.

I think you could get 2 2nds and a solid prospect for a package of Pageau and Dzingel, which is more valuable than a late 1st. I just don't think teams would want to trade a late 1st over 2 2nds and a solid prospect, even if the latter package is more valuable.

 

[Draiskull]

why is Edmonton trading their 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick for a pending UFA...?

Its an easy yes from Edmonton. They are also getting JG Pageau along with this pending UFA while getting rid of Spooner's salary.

 

[Draiskull]

You get a great rental in Dzingle, who is worth at least a 2nd (likely more), and then a solid 3C with term.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but OTT would definitely get a 1st+ for a package of Pageau and Dzingle.

getting a 1st from a playoffs team is different than a 1st from OTT or EDM. The combo certainly is worth a 1st but not a top 5 pick.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Its an easy yes from Edmonton. They are also getting JG Pageau along with this pending UFA while getting rid of Spooner's salary.

are you joking or...?

Pageau is nothingburger as far as this trade goes. He is a ~30 point player. Spooner's salary is really not that much all things considered.

there is no way the Oilers are trading a 1st and a 2nd for a pending UFA when they aren't contenders.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Sens are not taking both Frolik + Neal (Cap dumps for the Flames) and would just be receiving a low 1st and a B level prospect.

I get not wanting to give up 2 x 1st's (add conditions or make one of the 1st's a 2nd instead) but you can't switch Andersson for Kylington/anything else and have that trade be worth Mark Stone. He's literally worth to Ottawa what Gaudreau is worth to Calgary.

Just in terms of prospect pipeline, I'm not saying remove Andersson and a first, just that the Flames aren't in a great position to be offering two firsts and their only RHD prospect/young player. So I think Andersson would have to be taken out (both 1sts would stay in), and could potentially be swapped with a B prospect. Also, the fact that Frolik has a cap hit doesn't make him a "cap dump"; he's worth a 2nd rounder at minimum.

 

[branch]

are you joking or...?

Pageau is nothingburger as far as this trade goes. He is a ~30 point player. Spooner's salary is really not that much all things considered.

there is no way the Oilers are trading a 1st and a 2nd for a pending UFA when they aren't contenders.

Do you just look at stats? Pageau is a great 2-way center. Something that the Oilers sorely lack who elevates his game in the playoffs. Pageau is most definitely not a "nothingburger", he could probably return at least a late 1st/2nd from most contenders in the league.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

yeah they definitely should trade a potential top 5 pick AND a 2nd for JG Pageau and 2 months of Ryan Dzingle

great idea, Mr. Chiarelli!

 

[BatVader]

I’d say no to the Jets deal.
Rather give up Little over Perreault.
Not giving up Brossoit until after the playoffs.
And honestly don’t like the idea of paying this high for a rental.

 

[gach]

1. Matt Duchene to Winnipeg for Laurent Brossoit + 2019 1st round pick + 2020 2nd round pick (becomes a 2020 1st round pick if Duchene re-signs with Winnipeg or if the Jets appear in the cup finals) + Mathieu Perreault (full cap - 4.125Mx3)

Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler
Ehlers - Duchene - Laine
Vesalainen - Little - Roslovic
Lemieux - Lowry - Tanev

Morrissey - Trouba
Chariot - Byfuglien
Kulikov - Myers

Hellebuyck
Comrie

The Jets get the best center to hit the TD market in quite a while to complement their impressive set of wingers and complete their forward core. They become a formidable cup contender with the addition of Duchene.
Ottawa gets a goaltender that has posted solid numbers at every level he’s played and has shown this year that he just might be ready to become an NHL starter. While having lost a step, Perreault can still be a decent top 9 player, though definitely overpaid at this stage. The draft picks are self-explanatory.


2. Mark Stone to Calgary for Rasmus Andersson + 2019 1st round pick + 2020 1st round pick + James Neal (full cap - 5.75Mx5)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Stone
Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik
Czarnik - Ryan - Hathaway

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki/Kylington - Stone

Rittich
Smith

The Flames get rid of Neal’s massive contract while acquiring one of the league’s best two-way winger.
Ottawa gets a very good young defenseman with top 4 upside and a pair of late firsts for Stone + Neal’s putrid contract.


3. Ryan Dzingel (1.8Mx1) + JG Pageau (50% salary retained - 1.55Mx2) to Edmonton for 2019 1st round pick + 2020 2nd round pick + Ryan Spooner (Full cap - 3.1Mx2)

Dzingel - McDavid - Draisaitl
Khaira - RNH - Yamamoto
Chiasson - Pageau - Puljujarvi
Lucic - Brodziak - Kassian

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Russell
Jones - Bouchard

Koskinen
Talbot

Edmonton gets some much needed affordable quality up front to complement their high end talent.
Ottawa gets draft picks, retains on Pageau and takes on Spooner’s contract to make the cap work for Edmonton.


4. Cody Ceci to Minnesota for Charlie Coyle

Greenway - Staal - Kunin
Zucker - Koivu - Granlund
Parise - Rask - Aberg
Foligno - Eriksson EK - Brown

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba*
Seeler - Ceci

Dubnyk
Stalock

1 for 1 hockey deal. Change of scenery for two similarly inconsistent and maligned players. Ceci’s a RFA at the end of the season while Coyle has another year on his deal before becoming a UFA. Ceci replaces Dumba while the latter’s injured, provides an upgrade on Pateryn and perhaps trives alongside a steady Jonas Brodin. Coyle gets the chance to play top minutes and be an important piece up front for a rebuilding team.


OTTAWA

Tkachuk - White - Coyle
Neal - Tierney - Ryan
Perreault - Chlapik - Batherson
Boedker - Paul - xxx

Chabot - Demelo
Wolanin - Andersson
Lajoie - Jaros

Brossoit
Nilsson

BELLEVILLE

Balcers - Brown - Sturtz
Formenton - Norris - Rodewald
Klimchuk - Spooner - Luchuk
Tambellini - Kelly - Lindberg

Percy - Burgdoerfer
Falk - Elliott
Murray - Goloubef
Englund

Daccord
Gustafsson​

Buyout/Release/Giveaway: Craig Anderson, Zack Smith, Mike Condon, Mark Borowiecki, Magnus Paajarvi, Ben Harpur, Patrick Sieloff, Julius Bergman, Max McCormick, Marcus Hogberg

2019: CGY 1st round pick, EDM 1st round pick, WPG 1st round pick, OTT 2nd round pick, SJS 2nd round pick
2020: OTT 1st round pick, CGY 1st round pick, SJS 1st round pick, OTT 2nd round pick, EDM 2nd round pick, WPG 2nd round pick*

Dream on. Teams are not going to give up number picks for unrestrictive free agents witch cause cap problems if they are resigned

 

[PromisedLand]

OP you might as well have said Ottawa Senators to Quebec Nordiques and be done with it

 

[Double Dion]

It's an interesting concept from a Flames perspective. Even though Valimaki is a "better" prospect, he is more moveable from a Flames perspective. Right now if a top 4 defenseman goes down on the right side we'd have Prout playing top 4 minutes without Andersson. Moving out Neal would potentially allow us to re-sign Stone which would be the key to this deal. I'd definitely say no to it if he's just a rental. Something along the lines of Valimaki (gives Ottawa an enviable future top pairing), a 1st and a 2nd would be my offer if you took Neal and we could sign Stone.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

You dont think we want the team to re-sign him? Lost.

Clueless like the rest of your post about billboards and what not. If he is extended he is worth more than that anyway.

Clueless? that part was management blowing Stones worth by signing him to a 1 year deal in his last rfa year, if he refused to sign with term he should have been traded while he was worth something.

 

[Double Dion]

Clueless? that part was management blowing Stones worth by signing him to a 1 year deal in his last rfa year, if he refused to sign with term he should have been traded while he was worth something.

Stone is a top 5 winger. He's definitely still worth something. He'd be a great add for us. His worth is dependent on whether you can sign him or not though. He's worth a first and prospect even as a rental in my opinion, although I don't think the Flames should be the ones to pay it for a rental.