Dubas' Timeline

[Peat]

Free agency will be difficult for us.

We’ve had trouble attracting high end talent while Sid & Geno were at their peaks.

Because the team has had little spare money to spend and often had their top PP positions sewn up.

If the team frees up money and prestige spots, then we should see a change. The Pens will never be a destination but having the money and playing time is the bigger deal.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

They can trade a retain EK65. That's bringing back a 1st.

They can move Pettersson and hope to get back a 1st. Doubt it will happen.

Eller, DOC, Bunting.

Those four players should be gone this deadline regardless of what we do.

We just moved Guentzel, Smith, and took a contract for a 2nd. And Ruh but that doesn’t count.

They also only signed one deal to longer than 1 year and it was for a 26 year old.

Idk how you’re criticizing future hypotheticals that havent had to play out yet.

 

[Gurglesons]

We just moved Guentzel, Smith, and took a contract for a 2nd. And Ruh but that doesn’t count.

Idk how you’re criticizing future hypotheticals that havent had to play out yet.

Because I don't trust this management team.

Guentzel forced our hand. Happy we moved Smith and the Hayes deal is a big meh from me.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Because I don't trust this management team.

Which is fair if that’s what you think… but also.. so what? Not like your trust level matters. Especially doesn’t matter in criticizing future moves that haven’t even happened yet.

Like come on you’re making up hypothetical scenarios to criticize

 

[Gurglesons]

Which is fair if that’s what you think… but also.. so what? Not like your trust level matters. Especially doesn’t matter in criticizing future moves that haven’t even happened yet.

Like come on you’re making up hypothetical scenarios to criticize

So, let me get this straight. It's okay to hyopthetical muse about how our rebuild is going to be similar to NYR or other teams, but when we set out a path for what we need to do to be like them then we are creating hypothetical sceanrios to criticize?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

What do you expect him to say?

Crosby, Malkin, Letang, etc. will play another three or so years on their farewell tour. Then around a five year rebuild and hope that we get lucky with the lottery again.

So, a decade or more of wilderness before you can even hope to see a legit cup contender again.

Everyone buy tickets!

 

[ChaosAgent]

The team attracted Karlsson and also had no problem re-signing Rakell once he was traded here. The idea that we will only get the dregs of FA is odd and seems to mostly come from a loathing (self loathing or performative derision?) from some posters.

 

[Peat]

Pens don’t remotely have these pieces and you know it lmao.

This stash also wasn't a huge part of their rebuild insofar as I can tell despite not doing too bad

The McDonagh and Miller trade yielded, as far as I can tell, a bunch of guys who are no longer on the Rangers with literally nothing to show for it

The Rick Nash trade was a humdinger that got them Lindgren and K'Andre Miller.

Skjei got them Schneider

Hayes got them Trouba, who hasn't been bad but probably wouldn't still be there if it wasn't for his big old cap hit

And the Zuccarello trade didn't yield anything yet

Four good blueliners is nothing to sneer at but those trades weren't, and maybe I missed something, part of Panarin/Shesterkin/Fox insofar as I can see (beyond clearing cap space). Those are the back in business parts. All their top 10 picks have so far amounted to maybe Lafreniere's breakout year, I think.

Which in one way shows just how difficult it is because you look at all the swings NYR took and how well they worked out (or not). But in another, it shows how irrelevant all the selling can be. One player out of six got them 50% of the meaningful return, and the best bits came from elsewhere.

I feel like the NHL has never looked more like a league where teams can transform themselves through trade and FA than it does right now.

Conversely, watching the fates of some of the teams that got themselves into teardowns is sobering stuff. The Sabres continue to be a fail. The Oilers did finally get McDavid to a SC final after 9 years but given the draft capital the org has had, the undperformance is palpable. They're two of the most blatant tankers we saw in the last 10 years, right? I feel like Colorado are the one team in the league staffed by a bunch of their early draft picks from the 10s that has a cup. It makes me far less invested in "thou must suffer" school of roster building.


And tbh, the whole "what direction they should go" seems tertiary to me to "find an identity and stick with it" and "just f***ing get the right guys in already" (interlinked I know). I'd rather have a meh plan executed competently than a good plan executed badly.

 

[Gurglesons]

The team attracted Karlsson and also had no problem re-signing Rakell once he was traded here. The idea that we will only get the dregs of FA is odd and seems to mostly come from a loathing (self loathing or performative derision?) from some posters.

Big difference between trade acquisitions and re-signing players versus having them choose PIT when they are being offered a gig in other major cities..

 

[Tom Hanks]

Because the team has had little spare money to spend and often had their top PP positions sewn up.

If the team frees up money and prestige spots, then we should see a change. The Pens will never be a destination but having the money and playing time is the bigger deal.

Partially agree although we’ve had money at times/playing time and still lost out.

Our biggest FA signings since Sid got here have been Gonchar & Martin.

Pittsburgh isn’t a destination club without Crosby & Malkin going on cup runs.

That’s my concern about free agency although the rebuild needs all of the list building avenues (UFA, draft, trade) so 1 big free agent is all we may need.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

So, let me get this straight. It's okay to hyopthetical muse about how our rebuild is going to be similar to NYR or other teams, but when we set out a path for what we need to do to be like them then we are creating hypothetical sceanrios to criticize?

I didn’t say it would be similar or should be… my original post was just talking about a few of the teams paths that hadn’t stripped it down to the studs and were having some modicum of success currently.

Really my post was about the common denominators being luck in hitting home runs in talent acquisition (specifically the draft) and goaltending.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Pittsburgh isn't exactly repellant as a FA destination and I think that sometimes a little too much is made of it in order to explain away lazy/uncreative/non-aggressive management we've seen over the years. But yeah... all things being equal there aren't too many players who are going to WANT to come to Pittsburgh. Especially now.

Money and term are a hell of a panacea, though.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Interesting how we haven’t been a FA destination but guys like Iginla, Kessel and Karlsson all preferred to be traded here.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Pittsburgh isn't exactly repellant as a FA destination and I think that sometimes a little too much is made of it in order to explain away lazy/uncreative/non-aggressive management we've seen over the years. But yeah... all things being equal there aren't too many players who are going to WANT to come to Pittsburgh. Especially now.

Money and term are a hell of a panacea, though.

At least the Pens aren’t located in Winnipeg.

 

[66-30-33]

Interesting how we haven’t been a FA destination but guys like Iginla, Kessel and Karlsson all preferred to be traded here.

Don't worry, soon we will be one of those "10 team NTC list" teams because we will be teh suck.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Interesting how we haven’t been a FA destination but guys like Iginla, Kessel and Karlsson all preferred to be traded here.

Kessel and EK were rather special situations. How much choice did they really have in the matter?

Iginla was so long ago I don't recall the exact circumstances.

I'm not being "self-loathing." I actually think Pittsburgh is a fantastic little city. But again... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... there aren't many players that have the Penguins at the top of their destination list in the best of times. And these days it can logically only be worse as they are not contenders.

I don't think that's unreasonable. But again... most of the time money talks.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Kessel and EK were rather special situations. How much choice did they really have in the matter?

Iginla was so long ago I don't recall the exact circumstances.

I'm not being "self-loathing." I actually think Pittsburgh is a fantastic little city. But again... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... there aren't many players that have the Penguins at the top of their destination list in the best of times. And these days it can logically only be worse as they are not contenders.

I don't think that's unreasonable. But again... most of the time money talks.

Kessel wanted out/Leafs were happy for him to go and from the teams he’d go to we were kinda the only one that could make the cap work.

Iggy would have been who he thought would win the cup and he gets to play with Sid.

Did Karlsson think we had one more shot in us for a cup run? Or he hated playing in San Jose that much?

 

[Gurglesons]

Interesting how we haven’t been a FA destination but guys like Iginla, Kessel and Karlsson all preferred to be traded here.

When you are being traded you don't have the option of really choosing where you are going.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kessel wanted out/Leafs were happy for him to go and from the teams he’d go to we were kinda the only one that could make the cap work.

Iggy would have been who he thought would win the cup and he gets to play with Sid.

Did Karlsson think we had one more shot in us for a cup run? Or he hated playing in San Jose that much?

From everything I've been led to understand... both Kessel and EK were instances of "it's pretty much Pittsburgh or MAYBE one or two other teams who have lesser deals on the table and/or not as serious interest." In other words few if any other suitors and the Penguins had the best offer out of the slim pickins that there were.

Maybe Kessel and EK were adamant that it be Pittsburgh or nothin' but if so I'm not aware of that.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Karlsson was the last serious try to compete with this core. If the moves from the trade of Jake onward did not hit you over the head to realize that, then nothing will.

The others mentioned who were traded for or signed as FA's when this core was in their prime and legit cup threats year after year are irrelevant to the situation today.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The team attracted Karlsson and also had no problem re-signing Rakell once he was traded here. The idea that we will only get the dregs of FA is odd and seems to mostly come from a loathing (self loathing or performative derision?) from some posters.

Those were trades.

Who was the last good FA player the Pens signed?

 

[Gurglesons]

Those were trades.

Who was the last good FA player the Pens signed?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Those were trades.

Who was the last good FA player the Pens signed?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Karlsson was the last serious try to compete with this core. If the moves from the trade of Jake onward did not hit you over the head to realize that, then nothing will.

The others mentioned who were traded for or signed as FA's when this core was in their prime and legit cup threats year after year are irrelevant to the situation today.

Agreed, but it just sucks that our last hurrah was such a low effort shart. I don't know how anyone can have faith in the team's management going forward if they got EK and proceeded to let Sully horribly misuse him all year.

 

[66-30-33]

Karlsson was the last serious try to compete with this core. If the moves from the trade of Jake onward did not hit you over the head to realize that, then nothing will.

The others mentioned who were traded for or signed as FA's when this core was in their prime and legit cup threats year after year are irrelevant to the situation today.

McKenna would be pretty good here. They say he's a McDavid talent IIRC? but he probably wont be.

Also the 33 in my name is from the previous McKenna we had.