Post-Game Talk: Drouins big return ends up in a Habs loss against Ottawa

[SOLR]

Right off the top of my head, Edmonton is a warning. Years of first overall picks and years of agony.

They have a couple players that you can't miss with, but they can't shake the mediocrity.

The issue is that some people assume its enough to just keep losing and build up talent to eventually win the cup. It's not as simple as that.

What are you talking about? Conference final last year - this narrative needs to die.

 

[JianYang]

What are you talking about? Conference final last year - this narrative needs to die.

Yeah a conference final where they got absolutely destroyed, and they almost made the conference final about 5 years ago too... It doesn't change my opinion.

They are far behind where they should be at this stage of their cycle, which is an elite contender for the cup.

 

[Rapala]

Thats essentially the point though. Drafting stars, finding other gems within the draft later on, and building a good support cast around those plauers are all going to factor in.

And even when you have those elements, it's still going to take a hefty amount of luck in the playoffs to win a championship.

There's other teams like San Jose who seemed to be run well for decades, but just couldn't get over the hump.

For sure. We've seen the so called tank work both ways. Some of it luck but essentially the teams who loaded two mega stars in short order did very well. Edmonton still have the possibility of re-tooling while keeping McDavid and Draisaitl happy. Will Holland blow holes in his roster to fill the need I doubt it. But that is what they need to do because making the lower end of the playoff structure in a weakish confrence will get them nowhere. That San Jose team was an enigma nobody could put their finger on the problem. Looking in from the outside it was always easy to say "choke".

 

[SOLR]

Yeah a conference final where they got absolutely destroyed, and they almost made the conference final about 5 years ago too... It doesn't change my opinion.

They are far behind where they should be at this stage of their cycle, which is an elite contender for the cup.

They have another set of problems than our set. We will have their problem if we don't acquire a star this year as Suzuki/Caufield gets paid.

The Leafs have the same issue as Edmonton.

But this situation is a one-off cap issue caused by one-off pandemic crisis. The cap would be 10m higher right now without the pandemic, and both these teams would have able to round-out their team.

Colorado destroyed Edmonton in the conference final after having spent years to correct the exact same problem Edmonton has now to overcome. And it's a constant fight to keep the talent.

Let's see how Edmonton does this year after the TDL, I think they will go far again.

 

[themilosh]

Regrettably, so are a half dozen other teams who will probably finish lower in the standings than us.

I think CHI, PHI, ANA will be bottom 3 for sure. we'll finish somewhere in the 4th-7th range, but a legit contender to a lottery win.
while everyone is salivating at Bedard, I'd be more happy with Fantilli than our 1st overall this year.

 

[dinodebino]

All for inflating the stats of vets to make them easier to move but some judgment should still be exercised. Not all vets deserve the ice time, it hinders the meritocracy approach that looked to be in place and it robs upside rookies of ice time and experience.

Is it worth giving a lug like Dadonov ice time just to hope that instead of 6-7th round pick, he might garner a 5th? A whole season of undeserved minutes, for that?

All assets are worth it.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I think CLB, PHI, ANA will be bottom 3 for sure. we'll finish somewhere in the 4th-7th range, but a legit contender to a lottery win.
while everyone is salivating at Bedard, I'd be more happy with Fantilli than our 1st overall this year.

After the upcoming WJC, some may be salivating more for Fabtilli.

 

[BLONG7]

Yeah a conference final where they got absolutely destroyed, and they almost made the conference final about 5 years ago too... It doesn't change my opinion.

They are far behind where they should be at this stage of their cycle, which is an elite contender for the cup.

Behind where they should be?
One year ago it all started, and you think we are behind where we should be?
Just one year ago we hired Gorton, who had to change almost everything.......For me, hiring Hughes was huge....we are just getting going here.

 

[salbutera]

One good game and how many bad games? 13 pts in 29 games. 4.5m $ / year
He's a center and he have only 7 assists in 29 games.

How many points does KK have & what’s his cap hit?

 

[admiralcadillac]

I think it's time to take a decision with him, he's going nowhere, no improvements.

You play him this year and evalute at the TDL and end of year. I don’t think he’ll even be considered for a resign in my opinion but maybe he can be dealt.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

How many points does KK have & what’s his cap hit?

I was a fan of KK the first year, or the first half of his first year. Very soon I was disilusionnal of him.
Bergy could just have lose KK and not replace him by Dvorak. I was for Hertl. But losing KK would have been a minor loss if Bergy kept Dano. Bergy could have sign Dano, sign Evans and not sign Armia, not sign Hoffman, Paquette and Perreault. Did Habs lost a first round draft by taking Dvorak?

 

[HuGort]

Fire Burrows, stop putting Drouin at the blue line and the refs are horrible

 

[dcyhabs]

I think it was something like 27th and 31st before last night game.

Isn’t that mostly that they tend to give up 2 empty net goals when they are down by one? They’ve had a comeback or two but either MSL really wants to go down swinging or he considers it a teaching technique.

Drouin has very limited value. They can put him out there and either he does something good or no one cares, his value can’t really drop much. A very physical team might pick him up at the deadline for his hands.

 

[BLONG7]

Fire Burrows, stop putting Drouin at the blue line and the refs are horrible

This covers it.............

 

[WeThreeKings]

Really what happens with teams like Edmonton and Buffalo is not the losing culture they can't get out of.. 'cause I've been on bad teams that as soon as you hit the ice game 1 and you realize your team is good? All the other years go out the window.

It's more that the losing culture is a byproduct of bad management. Edmonton and Buffalo would routinely overpay mediocre players and have an imbalance in cap structure to add pieces they actually need to compete.

When you look at what made Pittsburgh so successful was they were able to surround Crosby and Malkin with talent that wasn't breaking the bank to play roles. Rust, Sheary, Dupuis, Kunitz, Hornqvist, etc.

Edmonton is paying Nurse 9.5 million, they're paying Campbell 5 million.. these are the types of deals that hurt a team because you can't build enough around the talent, you end up being a really shallow team.

 

[CHwest]

Didn't watch the game, just hi-lights. The powerplay goal was pretty slick, fast puck movement and bang. Very TB like. Drouin was part of that exchange.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Really what happens with teams like Edmonton and Buffalo is not the losing culture they can't get out of.. 'cause I've been on bad teams that as soon as you hit the ice game 1 and you realize your team is good? All the other years go out the window.

It's more that the losing culture is a byproduct of bad management. Edmonton and Buffalo would routinely overpay mediocre players and have an imbalance in cap structure to add pieces they actually need to compete.

When you look at what made Pittsburgh so successful was they were able to surround Crosby and Malkin with talent that wasn't breaking the bank to play roles. Rust, Sheary, Dupuis, Kunitz, Hornqvist, etc.

Edmonton is paying Nurse 9.5 million, they're paying Campbell 5 million.. these are the types of deals that hurt a team because you can't build enough around the talent, you end up being a really shallow team.

A certain threshold of talent, balance and leadership will obliterate any "losing" culture.

I don't believe a "losing" culture exists at that level aside from a handful of examples who are more often than not rotten all the way to ownership. For most teams, either you have a winning culture or you don't. Colorado and Tampa both faltered to the bottom and yet overcame their losing ways by adding talent, balance and leadership, mainly by drafting and develpping well and acquired pieces to surround them.

 

[Andy]

Look, I don't like Drouin, but why is he being singled out in the title here when he isnt' relied on to win? Like how is this not trolling or deliberate targetting?

it's getting to be annoying at this point. The only people that care about Drouin are people with some irrational hate for him. I don't see his name mentioned ever unless people are trashing him. It needs to stop.

 

[Habs]

anyone else totally forget Mike Matheson was on this team?

Look, I don't like Drouin, but why is he being singled out in the title here when he isnt' relied on to win? Like how is this not trolling or deliberate targetting?

it's getting to be annoying at this point. The only people that care about Drouin are people with some irrational hate for him. I don't see his name mentioned ever unless people are trashing him. It needs to stop.

Or what? Will there be consequences?

 

[OnTheRun]

Isn’t that mostly that they tend to give up 2 empty net goals when they are down by one? They’ve had a comeback or two but either MSL really wants to go down swinging or he considers it a teaching technique.

Drouin has very limited value. They can put him out there and either he does something good or no one cares, his value can’t really drop much. A very physical team might pick him up at the deadline for his hands.

It's a bit a of a feedback loop really. The bad goal differential in the 2nd and 3rd period contribute on needing to pull the goalie at the end of the game, playing 6v5 and not be good at it contribute to the bad goal differential in the 3rd.

 

[Naslundforever]

Look, I don't like Drouin, but why is he being singled out in the title here when he isnt' relied on to win? Like how is this not trolling or deliberate targetting?

it's getting to be annoying at this point. The only people that care about Drouin are people with some irrational hate for him. I don't see his name mentioned ever unless people are trashing him. It needs to stop.

Not obvious on a hockey forum (not trashing hab’s deadwood vets) but what positives would there be to say? I don’t think anyone is holding back on Dadonov, Armia, Hoffman… Drouin (twice) coughed up the puck with no pressure on them to end the last 2 games playing a position on the pp where he has no goals in 1000 years.

 

[Garo]

Yeah a conference final where they got absolutely destroyed, and they almost made the conference final about 5 years ago too... It doesn't change my opinion.

They are far behind where they should be at this stage of their cycle, which is an elite contender for the cup.

They got destroyed by a team that started accumulating talent in what, 2011? It took years for the Avs to shake off their issues too.

I think it's pretty obvious you need smart people in charge of such a rebuild, but its a bit of a silly point because that's true of whatever path you decide to take. Spend big? Better hope your scouts get you the right bang for your buck? Trading assets? Same thing, and you need to identify the right partners too. There's no path that's safe, accumulating is just less dependent on other factors even if it can take longer.

 

[BLONG7]

Look, I don't like Drouin, but why is he being singled out in the title here when he isnt' relied on to win? Like how is this not trolling or deliberate targetting?

it's getting to be annoying at this point. The only people that care about Drouin are people with some irrational hate for him. I don't see his name mentioned ever unless people are trashing him. It needs to stop.

He is among many who get kicked, for poor play......it's what happens on this forum, when guys play like bums, they hear about it.
Guy is just a bad hockey player now................frustrating for fans who know he has talent, when he has space.
Constant usage on a PP that he does not deserve, years later.....

Just the truth man................just the truth.

 

[Runner77]

All assets are worth it.

To a point. It depends on the opportunity cost. If the benefit of overplaying a low ceiling player is marginal at best, why bother?

This covers it.............

Just missing your signature word and then it’s fully covered.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

All for inflating the stats of vets to make them easier to move but some judgment should still be exercised. Not all vets deserve the ice time, it hinders the meritocracy approach that looked to be in place and it robs upside rookies of ice time and experience.

Is it worth giving a lug like Dadonov ice time just to hope that instead of 6-7th round pick, he might garner a 5th? A whole season of undeserved minutes, for that?

bottoming out