TSN: Dreger: Detroit won't be swapping 1st, 2nd or a quality prospect for a rental

[Frk It]

Get his rights, and maybe you completely skip that issue.

Getting his rights is a MUST if we want Green.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I thought it was Bogo for Myers.
Kane for the rest.

Whatever, I will pass on Yandle for that price. As most people pointed out we really need a D that can play on the right side(if right handed that is even better), since Kronwall and DD play their best on left side.

thats how every single hockey mind out there has broken it down

somehow here its myers, armia, and a 1st for bogo

and apparently we're also sugessting bogo is/has been/will be better than myers

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

If Holland somehow found a way to land Yandle, I'm sure Babcock will just give him the Smith treatment which is try to convert him over to a shut-down defenseman. Then get frustrated and healthy scratch him alot.

Depressing thought.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Depressing thought.

Yet very predictable in my opinion. Part of me really wants him, the other part of me thinks he and Babcock will be oil and water.

 

[edmundbenz]

Depressing thought.

Thats why Smith needs to wake up from the doldrum..

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If Holland somehow found a way to land Yandle, I'm sure Babcock will just give him the Smith treatment which is try to convert him over to a shut-down defenseman. Then get frustrated and healthy scratch him alot.

There is no way Babcock keeps Yandle off the PP, even the super friends would ask him about that along with every other national media reporter and there is no answer he could come up with.

I have no doubts he would get extremely upset with Yandle's play five on five and bench him for portions of games though, but his *** would go straight over the boards on the PP no matter what was happening by in large.

 

[Ricelund]

If Holland somehow found a way to land Yandle, I'm sure Babcock will just give him the Smith treatment which is try to convert him over to a shut-down defenseman. Then get frustrated and healthy scratch him alot.

No chance.

 

[Heaton]

Smith gets the Smith treatment, because he's Brendan Smith. no idea why he hasn't played on the PP, but Yandle has a history of being elite on it.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

There's really no point in trading Yandle unless he gets a ton of Even Strength time, our 5 on 5 GF rate compared to the rest of the league is very mediocre, this is a guy who would drive possession, make exceptional outlet passes through the neutral zone and place less pressure on Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Tatar, and Nyquist.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Smith doesn't get benched five on five hardly at all. Sees ample time there, doesn't get the best partners or green lights to play his game. But he has bought into what Babs wants him to do frustratingly so at times. The complaint with Smith has more to do with him listening to Babcock and him not relenting on trying him on the PP or allowing him to dig into the offensive zone deeper.

Not sure how the Babcock and Yandle relationship would work. I think it would be quite bumpy at times, but Babcock didn't say much of boo to Rafalski until his body fell apart and he started demoting his defensive capacity and increasing his five on five offensive zone starts, but with a certain track record comes certain treatment. I guess unless you are an older center, then your track record can go straight out the window, of course the competition up front is a different story than it is on the backend.

The real question with Yandle is what happens on the right. My guess is DeKeyser slides over, now he is a favorite so it might take a while for him to actually get heat for how much his game drops off on that side. Yandle's bleeding of goals five on five might be helped by backchecking centers and DeKeyser's emergency defending to some degree. Though my opinion is DK will look pretty pedestrian on the right and that will become a problem.

 

[Run the Jewels]

His strength would be to move the puck, not necessarily defending in the Wings zone. I'm pretty sure without even looking that Arizona's offensive zone time is pretty average to bad due to their forward core.

Yeah, his most common forwards he plays with are Sam Gagner (no idea how to play in his own zone, just look at his career plus-minus), Shane Doan (who is well past his sell by date), and Antoine Vermette (producing offense but his two-way game is not what it once was).

Dave Tippet has no idea how to generate offense. His teams have consistently been anywhere from the bottom 25% to bottom 33% of goals scored in the Western Conference. He's got plenty of good offensive d-men yet the Coyotes are ahead of only the Sabres and Canes in goals for this season. That includes 5v5, PP, SHG, etc. However they are second to last ahead of only Buffalo in 5v5 goals for. On that crappy team Yandle has been one of the lone consistent offensive producers. He'd flourish here.

This is a case of being able to buy low and solve a clear need. Holland won't get involved in the negotiations because he's far too conservative at this point but if you can get a 50-60 point d-man in his prime for basically a 1st round pick and a mid level prospect you have no excuse to not make that deal.

 

[RedWinged]

What will James Wisnewski cost? and would he be an upgrade and/or a good fit?

 

[Dotter]

Yeah, his most common forwards he plays with are Sam Gagner (no idea how to play in his own zone, just look at his career plus-minus), Shane Doan (who is well past his sell by date), and Antoine Vermette (producing offense but his two-way game is not what it once was).

Dave Tippet has no idea how to generate offense. His teams have consistently been anywhere from the bottom 25% to bottom 33% of goals scored in the Western Conference. He's got plenty of good offensive d-men yet the Coyotes are ahead of only the Sabres and Canes in goals for this season. That includes 5v5, PP, SHG, etc. However they are second to last ahead of only Buffalo in 5v5 goals for. On that crappy team Yandle has been one of the lone consistent offensive producers. He'd flourish here.

This is a case of being able to buy low and solve a clear need. Holland won't get involved in the negotiations because he's far too conservative at this point but if you can get a 50-60 point d-man in his prime for basically a 1st round pick and a mid level prospect you have no excuse to not make that deal.

It's just mind boggling how out of touch people here are. If he can be had for what you "hope & dream" he can be had for, he'd been gone a long time ago.

Unless your fabricate (nonsensical) value only applies to one team; the Detroit Red Wings. I really doubt the other 29 teams exist on this great planet to cater exclusively to the DRWs and their needs.

God, where do people get this conceived trade value crap???

If you truly want Yandle, then you better be prepared to pay... and pay big time. To the point you'll surely feel violated. And then you people can come on HFboards in 3 years crying about what Holland gave up to get him when he could have kept the better assets.

I noticed the best armchair GM's here on HFboards are the ones with the best hindsight 20/20 vision. Those are the ones who make the most noise on here.

"b..bu...but Holland should have traded his 20xx 1st rounder for player X instead. He is much better than the player we drafted and we for sure would have won a cup with him!!11,,, boo-hoo!"

Hindsight is always 20/20, but in this case... keep the assets and develop Larkin/Mantha, draft another nice player with that 1st and enjoy many more years of Tatar/Nyquist. Yandle isn't worth it.

What will James Wisnewski cost? and would he be an upgrade and/or a good fit?

Wiz was on record a few years ago bashing the Red Wings. I doubt this franchise wants anything to do with him. You're better off going after Ian White.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I really wish hockey fans from time to time took a look at past trades around the nhl that have occurred

i wonder if they did if they're capable of seeing patterns

only on hfboards do fans whine and bit.. about how their player is in some unique situation, how the rules seen dozens of times before simply don't apply to them and then in the end when their player is traded for less then they expected/demanded they make excuses as too why it happened instead of realizing thats simply how the league works.

only one player has been traded in the past twenty years in which a team paid through the roof and were violated and that was lindros, a generational talent.

shocking....

 

[TimoneX]

Am I the only one that's sick of hearing about Yandle's imminent trade? Doubt his value is ever higher than it is over the next week. I do think Arizona finally moves him, but the more I think about it the less I think he's the droid KH and Babs are looking for. If the PP needed a shakeup or there were a mess of injuries to blueliners it'd be a different situation. I wouldn't hate it, but I rather hold out what little hope there is that Kenny goes all godfather on Green and makes him an offer he can't refuse over the summer. Think(and hope) Babcock is staying and I can see Babs and Green getting along a whole lot easier than I can see Babs and Yandle becoming drinking buds.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yeah, his most common forwards he plays with are Sam Gagner (no idea how to play in his own zone, just look at his career plus-minus), Shane Doan (who is well past his sell by date), and Antoine Vermette (producing offense but his two-way game is not what it once was).

Dave Tippet has no idea how to generate offense. His teams have consistently been anywhere from the bottom 25% to bottom 33% of goals scored in the Western Conference. He's got plenty of good offensive d-men yet the Coyotes are ahead of only the Sabres and Canes in goals for this season. That includes 5v5, PP, SHG, etc. However they are second to last ahead of only Buffalo in 5v5 goals for. On that crappy team Yandle has been one of the lone consistent offensive producers. He'd flourish here.

This is a case of being able to buy low and solve a clear need. Holland won't get involved in the negotiations because he's far too conservative at this point but if you can get a 50-60 point d-man in his prime for basically a 1st round pick and a mid level prospect you have no excuse to not make that deal.

yotes scored tied 8th most goals in western conference in 12-13.
tied for 8th in 13-14.
yotes scored 6th most goals in western conference in 11-12.
8th most goals in 10-11.
tied for 9th most goals in 09-10 (4 goals behind us).
9th most goals in 08-09 with dallas.
2nd most goals in 07-08.
9th most goals in 06-07.
4th most goals in 05-06.

so since the lockout season, the only time they have been in bottom 25% to bottom 33% of goals scored in WC, is this season. when their best line is about equal to out third line.

back then they had even some offensive talent.

this year they don't have even legit top 6 line. well, maybe their best line can be called passable 2nd line. babcock's wings are not much ahead of them in 5on5 goals, despite a lot more talent upfront.

i assume the 'plenty of good offensive dman' means just OEL and yandle who are scoring at spectacular level considering the talent around them.

 

[BinCookin]

It's just mind boggling how out of touch people here are. If he can be had for what you "hope & dream" he can be had for, he'd been gone a long time ago.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but in this case... keep the assets and develop Larkin/Mantha, draft another nice player with that 1st and enjoy many more years of Tatar/Nyquist. Yandle isn't worth it.

Just as a fun exercise. What are the trade comparisons for a 40pt Offensive Defensemen, traded 1.5 years before he is UFA? Is there a precedence cost for such a player?? I imagine his value is much higher now, than it will be in 1 year.

(I agree with Dotter, whoever we trade to get Yandle right NOW, will end up being too much cost for us)

 

[InjuredChoker]

Just as a fun exercise. What are the trade comparisons for a 40pt Offensive Defensemen, traded 1.5 years before he is UFA? Is there a precedence cost for such a player?? I imagine his value is much higher now, than it will be in 1 year.

(I agree with Dotter, whoever we trade to get Yandle right NOW, will end up being too much cost for us)

yandle is more of a 50+ point defenseman.

only one defenseman who had 50 or more points in a season, age between 26-30 (yandle is 28), has been traded since the lockout within a season of their 50+ point season:

dan boyle (and brad lukovich) for matt carle, 1st rounder (#26), 4th rounder and ty wishart (#16 ovr pick 2 years before).

so basically good young roster player, 1st rounder and good prospect. on par with all the other trades for high end player. i think boyle had 1yr left on his contract at the time of the trade though.

 

[Winger98]

Smith doesn't get benched five on five hardly at all. Sees ample time there, doesn't get the best partners or green lights to play his game. But he has bought into what Babs wants him to do frustratingly so at times. The complaint with Smith has more to do with him listening to Babcock and him not relenting on trying him on the PP or allowing him to dig into the offensive zone deeper.

Not sure how the Babcock and Yandle relationship would work. I think it would be quite bumpy at times, but Babcock didn't say much of boo to Rafalski until his body fell apart and he started demoting his defensive capacity and increasing his five on five offensive zone starts, but with a certain track record comes certain treatment. I guess unless you are an older center, then your track record can go straight out the window, of course the competition up front is a different story than it is on the backend.

The real question with Yandle is what happens on the right. My guess is DeKeyser slides over, now he is a favorite so it might take a while for him to actually get heat for how much his game drops off on that side. Yandle's bleeding of goals five on five might be helped by backchecking centers and DeKeyser's emergency defending to some degree. Though my opinion is DK will look pretty pedestrian on the right and that will become a problem.

Dekeyser would probably get bumped, but we could also slide Quincey down to play the right side on a third pairing next to Yandle, and slide Smith into that right side spot next to DK. Wouldn't mind seeing Ericsson moved to the third pair with Yandle, either, and Smith moved back to the Kronwall pairing, where I thought he didn't look bad last year. Yandle could still get a bunch of ES minutes from the third pair, and we keep Kronwall and DK on the sides they're best at.

 

[Dotter]

Just as a fun exercise. What are the trade comparisons for a 40pt Offensive Defensemen, traded 1.5 years before he is UFA? Is there a precedence cost for such a player?? I imagine his value is much higher now, than it will be in 1 year.

(I agree with Dotter, whoever we trade to get Yandle right NOW, will end up being too much cost for us)

Look no further than what a 27 year old Toronto's version of a higher scoring Jakub Kindl returned; Cody Franson.

Bottom line, if Yandle can be had for what people here wish and think he can be had for, he'd already been traded a long time ago. He's not. He's not available for what people think his worth is.

I'll be surprised if he's traded before draft day. I suspect Yotes keep him until next trade deadline to see where they are at in playoff contention. If they are out, then I'm sure he'll be traded for what people here think he's worth; Good roster player + Good prospect + 1st. Until then, you're not touching him for anything less than Tatar/Nyquist + Larkin/Mantha + 2015 1st.

 

[TimoneX]

Dekeyser would probably get bumped, but we could also slide Quincey down to play the right side on a third pairing next to Yandle, and slide Smith into that right side spot next to DK. Wouldn't mind seeing Ericsson moved to the third pair with Yandle, either, and Smith moved back to the Kronwall pairing, where I thought he didn't look bad last year. Yandle could still get a bunch of ES minutes from the third pair, and we keep Kronwall and DK on the sides they're best at.

These options are painful for me to think about. Smith gets rewarded for his incredibly mediocre(being kind) play this season and is moved up to the top pairing. DDK or Quincey are bumped downward despite being rock solid this year. Marchenko(the only RHD on the roster) gets sent down despite looking more like a vet than Smith. Do not like.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What was dion phaneuf traded for?

 

[Dotter]

yandle is more of a 50+ point defenseman.

only one defenseman who had 50 or more points in a season, age between 26-30 (yandle is 28), has been traded since the lockout within a season of their 50+ point season:

dan boyle (and brad lukovich) for matt carle, 1st rounder (#26), 4th rounder and ty wishart (#16 ovr pick 2 years before).

so basically good young roster player, 1st rounder and good prospect. on par with all the other trades for high end player. i think boyle had 1yr left on his contract at the time of the trade though.

Lets put the bolded into perspective.

Danny Dekeyser + Larkin (#15 ovr) + (2015) 1st + 4th

That's what you would give up for 1.5 yrs of Keith Yandle?

 

[BinCookin]

Lets put the bolded into perspective.

Danny Dekeyser + Larkin (#15 ovr) + (2015) 1st + 4th

That's what you would give up for 1.5 yrs of Keith Yandle?

Great example by InjuredChoker.. Thanks mate.

Good young roster player likely counts as Dekeyser (quincey might count, but likely too old). Might be able to sell them on XO and sproul instead of Dekeyser. But that is still costly.

Plus Larkin or Mantha (no exceptions here, 1 has to go)

2015 1st.

Ya that is a huge Cost IMO. And I totally agree with Dotter, that we should not do that trade at all.

EVEN if we could "bargain them down"
BEST trade I can even imagine is:

Pulkinnen+XO+sproul/Marchenko+2015 1st...+4th. Again too much for me. Plus its not good enough to get it done i think.

 

[Dotter]

Great example by InjuredChoker.. Thanks mate.

Good young roster player likely counts as Dekeyser (quincey might count, but likely too old). Might be able to sell them on XO and sproul instead of Dekeyser. But that is still costly.

Plus Larkin or Mantha (no exceptions here, 1 has to go)

2015 1st.

Ya that is a huge Cost IMO. And I totally agree with Dotter, that we should not do that trade at all.

EVEN if we could "bargain them down"
BEST trade I can even imagine is:

Pulkinnen+XO+sproul/Marchenko+2015 1st...+4th. Again too much for me. Plus its not good enough to get it done i think.

I believe atleast one quality roster player will have to go. So maybe at the very least they would take

Sheahan + XO/Turgeon (Turgy is going to be a stud) + Mrazek + 1st (2015) and we can keep Larkin/Mantha and the 4th rounder. I think I read Yotes want centers and I'm not sure if they have any quality goalies in their system.