Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19

[Edge]

His skating is absolutely amazing, and he’s really committed himself to learning how to read and pick apart defenses. He’s so much better than his peers at the same age that the difference is truly striking: almost a 2ppg player in the USDP as a U17, and the next highest is Phil Kessel at 1.5. Even if you bump it up to U18, he’s still right at the top behind Auston Matthews.

I don’t think he’ll be as big as you project, but I still don’t think it’ll matter if he ends up playing in that 180 range - he’s listed at 5’10 166 right now, while Quinn is at 174. He’s just too good.

I think he'll be bigger than Quinn, having seen them together. He's already a little taller, and his frame is a little bigger. Not vastly bigger, but noticeable when you see them together.

Considering he still has 10 months before he even turns 18, let alone the potential to continue to grow and fill out for another 3 years, I'd say 5'11, 190 is a fairly reasonable expectation.

We like to focus on defensive play and the physical aspects of the game when we look at prospects. But when you're talking about your top-end, elite level talents, I don't know if it's as much cause for concern.

For starters, you have to be able to catch them in order to pound them, and that's easier said than done when you talk about the best players in the league. And while defense is important, it becomes a little less important if said player is usually in possession of the puck.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

On the money as usual Edge.

The size thing is a non issue, he'll grow and he doesn't have to be 6ft and 200+ lbs. He's hyper elusive so it's not like he's going to be easy to lineup anyway.

Could give 2 shits about where his defensive game is at when hes 17 with that skill set. It's like someone took the best parts of Patrick Kane and Auston Matthews and created Jack Hughes.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I think Hughes will be a better player than Kane but not quite on McDavid level. But up there for sure, kid has Spidey Senses

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You're really clinging to the notion that he won't be a C at the NHL level, eh? It's an interesting take, so I'm curious to see if you're correct in the long run. I definitely see where you're coming from even though I disagree. I'm sure you've posted it somewhere in this thread, but who's your favorite C in this draft?

Likely Turcotte. Deep class of centers though. I like Newhook, Cozens, Krebs, Zegras, Nikkanen

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's funny, I was talking to someone yesterday about how certain elements of Hughes' game remind me of Crosby.

I'm hesitant to say that because automatically read it as a straight comparison or projection, it's not.

But from a size standpoint, from a style standpoint, how they control the flow of play, there's a lot of stylistic overlap.

IMO, Hughes is definitely on the same level as Auston Matthews' was at the same stage, and maybe a bit ahead of where Eichel is.

I don't share the same concerns as some about the size moving forward. This is a kid who just turned 17 about 10 weeks ago. He'll play in that 5'11-6'0, 190-195 range. His game will keep progressing and maturing and he's going to be a hell of a player.

Quinn is 5'9, Jack is 5'10. I think "height" debates are usually dumb, but I'm not sure your assumption there is a given. If I wanted to get overly speculative, I might say its not very likely that Hughes will get to 6'0. His father is 5'10, and while his mother's height isn't available, she doesn't seem to be particularly tall for a female. Also, all the guys who play his style of play, whether its Kane, Marner, Gaudreau, Panarin play at under 180 pounds. That doesn't mean Hughes will play at a similar weight, but it seems to be a pattern.

Edit: Forgot about Clayton Keller. He's also in that same weight range.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Quinn is 5'9, Jack is 5'10. I think "height" debates are usually dumb, but I'm not sure your assumption there is a given. If I wanted to get overly speculative, I might say its not very likely that Hughes will get to 6'0. His father is 5'10, and while his mother's height isn't available, she doesn't seem to be particularly tall for a female. Also, all the guys who play his style of play, whether its Kane, Marner, Gaudreau, Panarin play at under 180 pounds. That doesn't mean Hughes will play at a similar weight, but it seems to be a pattern.

Gaudreau is tiny, theres nothing he can do about that.

I believe Kane measured in at 5'9" and 160 during his combine, Marner was 5'11" and 160. If Jack Hughes' listed weight is correct, hes already heavier than both of those guys were 9 months out from the combine.

Kane, Gaudreau and Panarin are at their full developed weight. Hughes has a few years before he really grows into the rest of his body and he's already hovering above or around what those guys play at. 185-190 is not an unrealistic expectation and probably the most likely spot where he falls, assuming the 166 number is correct (could be lower, could also be higher)

 

[Edge]

Quinn is 5'9, Jack is 5'10. I think "height" debates are usually dumb, but I'm not sure your assumption there is a given. If I wanted to get overly speculative, I might say its not very likely that Hughes will get to 6'0. His father is 5'10, and while his mother's height isn't available, she doesn't seem to be particularly tall for a female. Also, all the guys who play his style of play, whether its Kane, Marner, Gaudreau, Panarin play at under 180 pounds. That doesn't mean Hughes will play at a similar weight, but it seems to be a pattern.

Edit: Forgot about Clayton Keller. He's also in that same weight range.

I don't think he'll be a monster by any stretch, but I think 5'11, 190ish is very doable. We're talking about an inch, and roughly 25 pounds between the age of 17.2 years of age and his physical peak in about 6 years.

 

[Kovalev27]

Not for nothing I love Oliver Wahlstrom as a prospect cried bloody murder when we passed on him but man is he having a horrible showcase. He looks like Ryan Gropp right now. If Andersson or Kravstov played like this in a tournament like this I’d be all over them. Fair is fair

The Hughes kids are unreal if we got jack I’d wet myself.

 

[Irishguy42]

What college free agents are worth looking at in the next 12 days? I have completely missed this upcoming class due to inability to continue watching the sorry excuse that is my alma mater.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think he'll be a monster by any stretch, but I think 5'11, 190ish is very doable. We're talking about an inch, and roughly 25 pounds between the age of 17.2 years of age and his physical peak in about 6 years.

Its possible. We just don't know. Its wait and see, especially with his height. Weight is more in his control.

 

[Ola]

I saw pretty much of Jack Hughes at the U18. The kid definitely smells FOA. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that he definitely will go first or become as good as McDavid/Kane and the likes. But he got that super engine, very capable center game. Hockey sense.

What you want to see is him not becoming frustrating when facing tougher players in the U20. Start playing with his head under his arm instead of finding ways. Showing those type of signs. I don’t think anyone overtakes him, it’s more his spot to lose from my POV. Just my guess.

 

[Joey Bones]

What college free agents are worth looking at in the next 12 days? I have completely missed this upcoming class due to inability to continue watching the sorry excuse that is my alma mater.

Here's the list....

IMO, Summers and maybe Willman are the only ones worth noting. I think Amorosa will get some sort of NHL/AHL deal, too. I was a big fan of both Eiserman and Glover in their draft years, but Eiserman didn't pan out and unfortunately Glover had a pretty serious injury.

ARI|Fiegl, Jared|F|21|6.01|213|Cornell|NCAA|2014|7|191|
BUF|Willman, Max|LW|22|6.00|190|Brown|NCAA|2014|5|121|
CBJ|Bird, Tyler|RW|21|6.02|200|Brown|NCAA|2014|5|137|
EDM|Muir, Aidan|LW|22|6.04|212|Western Michigan|NCAA|2013|4|113|
MIN|Peterson, Avery|C|22|6.03|215|Minnesota-Duluth|NCAA|2013|6|167|
OTT|Eiserman, Shane|F|21|6.01|210|New Hampshire|NCAA|2014|4|100|
OTT|Summers, Kelly|RD|21|6.01|197|Clarkson|NCAA|2014|7|189|
PHI|Amorosa, Terrance|LD|22|6.02|205|Clarkson|NCAA|2013|5|132|
TBL|MacLeod, Jonathan|RD|21|6.01|203|Boston University|NCAA|2014|2|57|
WPG|Glover, Jack|RD|21|6.03|210|Minnesota|NCAA|2014|3|69|

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It's funny, I was talking to someone yesterday about how certain elements of Hughes' game remind me of Crosby.

I'm hesitant to say that because automatically read it as a straight comparison or projection, it's not.

But from a size standpoint, from a style standpoint, how they control the flow of play, there's a lot of stylistic overlap.

IMO, Hughes is definitely on the same level as Auston Matthews' was at the same stage, and maybe a bit ahead of where Eichel is.

I don't share the same concerns as some about the size moving forward. This is a kid who just turned 17 about 10 weeks ago. He'll play in that 5'11-6'0, 190-195 range. His game will keep progressing and maturing and he's going to be a hell of a player.

Yeah, size doesn't matter anymore in the NHL. Massive increase in the number of 5'10 or smaller players being drafted compared to a decade ago. Hughes is a better version of Keller, and Keller is phenomenal.

I see parts of St. Louis-era Doug Gilmour (the non-Killer stuff), parts of Crosby and parts of McDavid. The only issues I see are puck hogging/overhandling and ridiculous expectations. His IQ is off the charts. I think he smashes the NTDP record this year, or at least comes close to it.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Not for nothing I love Oliver Wahlstrom as a prospect cried bloody murder when we passed on him but man is he having a horrible showcase. He looks like Ryan Gropp right now. If Andersson or Kravstov played like this in a tournament like this I’d be all over them. Fair is fair

The Hughes kids are unreal if we got jack I’d wet myself.

which showcase? where are you seeing Wahlstrom?

 

[Kovalev27]

which showcase? where are you seeing Wahlstrom?

Nhl network has been airing the world junior summer showcase all week

Sweden Canada US Finland

Lundkvist Keane for us both have played very well

 

[Ranger Ric]

Joey: Agree. There's no Kevin Hayes/Jimmy Vesey available this year.

If Chytil and Andersson make the Rangers the team is at 47 contracts (Cap Friendly says 46 but if you look closely you will see that the site is not counting Lias Andersson since his contract could slide). If the Rangers are saving a possible spot for Shumakov, it is doubtful the team uses a contract for one of these players. Perhaps an AHL contract. I can't help but notice, however, that Jonathan Macleod was recruited by and player for four years for David Quinn.

Here's the list....

IMO, Summers and maybe Willman are the only ones worth noting. I think Amorosa will get some sort of NHL/AHL deal, too. I was a big fan of both Eiserman and Glover in their draft years, but Eiserman didn't pan out and unfortunately Glover had a pretty serious injury.

ARI|Fiegl, Jared|F|21|6.01|213|Cornell|NCAA|2014|7|191|
BUF|Willman, Max|LW|22|6.00|190|Brown|NCAA|2014|5|121|
CBJ|Bird, Tyler|RW|21|6.02|200|Brown|NCAA|2014|5|137|
EDM|Muir, Aidan|LW|22|6.04|212|Western Michigan|NCAA|2013|4|113|
MIN|Peterson, Avery|C|22|6.03|215|Minnesota-Duluth|NCAA|2013|6|167|
OTT|Eiserman, Shane|F|21|6.01|210|New Hampshire|NCAA|2014|4|100|
OTT|Summers, Kelly|RD|21|6.01|197|Clarkson|NCAA|2014|7|189|
PHI|Amorosa, Terrance|LD|22|6.02|205|Clarkson|NCAA|2013|5|132|
TBL|MacLeod, Jonathan|RD|21|6.01|203|Boston University|NCAA|2014|2|57|
WPG|Glover, Jack|RD|21|6.03|210|Minnesota|NCAA|2014|3|69|

 

[Joey Bones]

Joey: Agree. There's no Kevin Hayes/Jimmy Vesey available this year.

If Chytil and Andersson make the Rangers the team is at 47 contracts (Cap Friendly says 46 but if you look closely you will see that the site is not counting Lias Andersson since his contract could slide). If the Rangers are saving a possible spot for Shumakov, it is doubtful the team uses a contract for one of these players. Perhaps an AHL contract. I can't help but notice, however, that Jonathan Macleod was recruited by and player for four years for David Quinn.

Yeah I can see the MacLeod connection, too, but that's one too many for NYR

 

[Ola]

Not for nothing I love Oliver Wahlstrom as a prospect cried bloody murder when we passed on him but man is he having a horrible showcase. He looks like Ryan Gropp right now. If Andersson or Kravstov played like this in a tournament like this I’d be all over them. Fair is fair

The Hughes kids are unreal if we got jack I’d wet myself.

Great to hear, the usual crew ridiculed me so much for calling out OWs flaws before the draft. Ola, NOBODY is agreeing with you. AND he has great underlying stats. He is a perfect skater, great defensively. Bla bla bla.

All the while he had some REALLY big issues in the U18 too.

I like our bet on Kravtsov, no doubt. OW is a smart kid, got sick hands and a great shot. But he also have issues. He may or may not overcome them, time will tell. I just think it’s fair to call out those issues instead of lynching Gorton for passing up the best shooting prospect in years (besides Laine) who is perfect in all other areas too at 9...

 

[Joey Bones]

Think every Ranger fan in existence wanted Wahlstrom at No. 9, but Kravtsov, in all honesty, is a really good gamble. Most compare Wahlstrom's shot to Ovechkin's and Laine's, but can they say the same about his game? I've said all year that he'll need a Blake Wheeler type of development and that'll be 3 years. Islanders can absorb that, Rangers not so much. Kravtsov has the better potential to be in a mold of Kuznetsov, who, IMO, deserved the Conn Smythe over Ovechkin this past playoffs.

At the end of the day, I'll take overal game over shot any day.

P.S.- A reminder that Gordie and Co. had Kravtsov as their 3rd best player in the draft, per their list. Who knows where Wahlstrom was....

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Think every Ranger fan in existence wanted Wahlstrom at No. 9, but Kravtsov, in all honesty, is a really good gamble. Most compare Wahlstrom's shot to Ovechkin's and Laine's, but can they say the same about his game? I've said all year that he'll need a Blake Wheeler type of development and that'll be 3 years. Islanders can absorb that, Rangers not so much. Kravtsov has the better potential to be in a mold of Kuznetsov, who, IMO, deserved the Conn Smythe over Ovechkin this past playoffs.

At the end of the day, I'll take overal game over shot any day.

P.S.- A reminder that Gordie and Co. had Kravtsov as their 3rd best player in the draft, per their list. Who knows where Wahlstrom was....

I think I am one of the very few who preferred Kravtsov over Wahlstrom when we were on the clock. I was really happy to hear the pick announcement. I literally cheered in the arena when it happened haha. It's probably because I've seen more of Kravtsov for one, but also that I just prefer that type of player over the type Wahlstrom is.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Think every Ranger fan in existence wanted Wahlstrom at No. 9, but Kravtsov, in all honesty, is a really good gamble. Most compare Wahlstrom's shot to Ovechkin's and Laine's, but can they say the same about his game? I've said all year that he'll need a Blake Wheeler type of development and that'll be 3 years. Islanders can absorb that, Rangers not so much. Kravtsov has the better potential to be in a mold of Kuznetsov, who, IMO, deserved the Conn Smythe over Ovechkin this past playoffs.

At the end of the day, I'll take overal game over shot any day.

P.S.- A reminder that Gordie and Co. had Kravtsov as their 3rd best player in the draft, per their list. Who knows where Wahlstrom was....

Just being nitpicky, but I think Gordie said they had him as the second best forward in the draft; if I remember correctly.

The connotation of that being that we had him in the 3rd-5th range.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hlinka starts tomorrow.

Players I'll be watching on each team. Bolded are 2020 draft eligibles. Underlined is 2021 draft eligible. Everyone else is 2019 draft eligible.

Canada: Barron, Byram, Robertson, Schneider, Cozens, Dach, Holloway, Krebs, Lafreniere, Suzuki
Czech Republic: Malik, Kubicek, Has, Prikryl, Teply, Raska, Toman
Finland: Kokkonen, Sedoff, Aaltonen, Nikkanen, Saarela, Petman, Lundell, Simontaival
Russia: Askarov, Knyazev, Mironov, Abramov, Amirov, Gushchin, Gutik, Podkolzin, Spiridonov
Switzerland: Delemont, Villa, Knak, Rochette
Slovakia: Cajkovic, Knazko, Turan
Sweden: Wallstedt, Soderblom, Costmar, Grewe, Raymond, Holtz, Bjornfot, Soderstrom, Broberg
USA: Wolf, Miller, Reid, Colangelo, Farinacci, Kaliyev, Mastrasimone, Robertson, Silanoff, Toporowski

 

[Mac n Gs]

Holtz’ numbers from last season are stupid for a 2020 draftee. It’ll be really interesting to see if he can maintain that goal scoring ability.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Hlinka starts tomorrow.

Players I'll be watching on each team. Bolded are 2020 draft eligibles. Underlined is 2021 draft eligible. Everyone else is 2019 draft eligible.

Canada: Barron, Byram, Robertson, Schneider, Cozens, Dach, Holloway, Krebs, Lafreniere, Suzuki
Czech Republic: Malik, Kubicek, Has, Prikryl, Teply, Raska, Toman
Finland: Kokkonen, Sedoff, Aaltonen, Nikkanen, Saarela, Petman, Lundell, Simontaival
Russia: Askarov, Knyazev, Mironov, Abramov, Amirov, Gushchin, Gutik, Podkolzin, Spiridonov
Switzerland: Delemont, Villa, Knak, Rochette
Slovakia: Cajkovic, Knazko, Turan
Sweden: Wallstedt, Soderblom, Costmar, Grewe, Raymond, Holtz, Bjornfot, Soderstrom, Broberg
USA: Wolf, Miller, Reid, Colangelo, Farinacci, Kaliyev, Mastrasimone, Robertson, Silanoff, Toporowski

Is Wallstedt actually that far ahead of the curve, or is there a bit of happenstance involved?

I've never heard the name before.

 

[Mikos87]

On the money as usual Edge.

The size thing is a non issue, he'll grow and he doesn't have to be 6ft and 200+ lbs. He's hyper elusive so it's not like he's going to be easy to lineup anyway.

Could give 2 ****s about where his defensive game is at when hes 17 with that skill set. It's like someone took the best parts of Patrick Kane and Auston Matthews and created Jack Hughes.

If Gaudreau or a Yvan Cournayer played center, was 5 inches bigger, and 25 lbs heavier, and a step faster, and had elite edges (think Subban, McDavid).... that's Jack Hughes. I don't worry about the size at all. He's not like a Matthews with that size speed & skill quotient, he's not like a Kane who controls the pace of the game... He's a high speed dynamo that slices through the defense and creates lanes and chances.