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Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part VI (Lottery 04/09 8PM EST)

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Edge said:
It's funny you mention the Center thing.

I remember chatting with Craig Patrick at a media event early in my career where I was serving as a wrangler. We briefly chatted about the Brian Leetch draft debate and while the Rangers loved his skill, they were apparently 50/50 as to whether he would end up at center. Patrick himself thought he'd make it a defenseman, but it wasn't a given by any stretch.
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Well the center thing came up in the Hockey News draft issue in his synopsis. Back then--and that might have been Adam Graves year as well--the great majority of guys drafted in the first couple rounds were out of the CHL. Leetch was small and playing at a prep school. So anyway the jury was somewhat out on what kind of player he would become or even what position he'd end up playing. The synopsis also said he was a real rink rat and you couldn't get him off the ice.
 
Edge said:
Personally, I’ve never heard of it for the former, except when there’s a tie.

For the latter, I know a west coast team a few years back gave 4 points for centers, 3 points for RD, 2 points for LD and wings, and 1 point for goalies.
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This is what I suspected.
 
The concept of taking the BPA gets taken the wrong way. It isn’t meant to mean that there is a consensus best player that everyone agrees on. Different teams have different ways of valuing prospects and obviously the list from team to team will vary. But every team has a list, based on whatever criteria that the team values they have their list. And drafting the BPA means that you take the highest player on YOUR list that is available...

You don’t take the guy that you consider the 3rd or 4th best player left because the position fells a need.
 
Leetch3 said:
The concept of taking the BPA gets taken the wrong way. It isn’t meant to mean that there is a consensus best player that everyone agrees on. Different teams have different ways of valuing prospects and obviously the list from team to team will vary. But every team has a list, based on whatever criteria that the team values they have their list. And drafting the BPA means that you take the highest player on YOUR list that is available...

You don’t take the guy that you consider the 3rd or 4th best player left because the position fells a need.
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Right, but it sounds like that is really pretty rare. Likely rare enough that it doesn’t even need to be mentioned.
 
Tawnos said:
@Edge or anyone else whose been around this stuff.

Do teams often take a player who isn’t at the top of their draft board when their pick comes up in order to fill an organizational need?
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It happens. During teams final ranking meetings, you will have scouts who disagree on guys that belong on the do not draft list, while other scouts may on the same org disagree. It's one of those things where I've heard seniority winning out in a couple of cases.

I'll give you an example, there were a few scouts around the league that had a DND label on a top pick. The team making the selection had another kid rated no 1 that most teams had in their top 3 but considered unsexy.

The regional scout for that team had the pick on his DND, but since it was a top pick, there were other scouts and execs that went around looking for the player at their games, and video and superseded the DND.

That pick was a huge bust.
 
Tawnos said:
@Edge or anyone else whose been around this stuff.

Do teams often take a player who isn’t at the top of their draft board when their pick comes up in order to fill an organizational need?
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I would say so. Goalie in particular. Knight is going to go a lot sooner than people expect. Lots of scouts see him going in the teens....

You saw last year that Montreal went center with Kotkaniemi (although he was going to go top 5 at the time), but then Arizona took Hayton at No. 5. Kind of crazy thinking that Q. Hughes, Zadina, Kratvsov were available then.
 
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Joey Bones said:
I would say so. Goalie in particular. Knight is going to go a lot sooner than people expect. Lots of scouts see him going in the teens....

You saw last year that Montreal went center with Kotkaniemi (although he was going to go top 5 at the time), but then Arizona took Hayton at No. 5. Kind of crazy thinking that Q. Hughes, Zadina, Kratvsov were available then.
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Florida. I don't see Knight going past them.
 
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I agree with most, don't take a goalie in the 1st/2nd round, but what if that goalie is someone that has the talent to change a franchise. Knight certainly has that potential.

I wonder how people will react in 2021 when Jesper Wallstedt goes No. 1....
 
I think the above points are about how a team arrives at who they feel is BPA, more than examples of them not going with their BPA.
 
Tawnos said:
Right, but it sounds like that is really pretty rare. Likely rare enough that it doesn’t even need to be mentioned.
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probably not among teams but among fans who don't want to pick a dman cause we have a bunch of future 3rd pair guys happens all the time lol
 
Edge said:
I think the above points are about how a team arrives at who they feel is BPA, more than examples of them not going with the BPA.
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It can be viewed like that, but based on consensus there were indeed better players available, at the time. Sure, Arizona could've viewed Hayton as the best option for them, but it also goes to the fact that the draft in its entirety is a complete guessing game. Professional and amateur scouts can get it wrong, too. Most do what they can to project development based on their viewings. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes.
 
Joey Bones said:
It can be viewed like that, but based on consensus there were indeed better players available, at the time. Sure, Arizona could've viewed Hayton as the best option for them, but it also goes to the fact that the draft in its entirety is a complete guessing game. Professional and amateur scouts can get it wrong, too. Most do what they can to project development based on their viewings. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes.
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But I think what you’re describing is the whole point - BPA is subjective and varies by team.

The question isn’t whether a team goes with our BPA or a pundit’s BPA, it’s whether they go with their BPA.

In my experience a team doesn’t pass their BPA for a positional need. How they decide on that opinion is another matter, and position could figure into the calculations, but I’ve never heard of a team passing on a guy they scored higher because they had a need elsewhere.

The might give rate that position highest because they think it has more value, and that might push a guy ahead, but I don’t think there are many instances where they’d take a center they ranked 8th with a score of 88, over a defenseman they ranked 4th with a score of 93.

I’m sure there are exceptions, but i gather they are probably fewer and further between than most realize.
 
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Joey Bones said:
I agree with most, don't take a goalie in the 1st/2nd round, but what if that goalie is someone that has the talent to change a franchise. Knight certainly has that potential.

I wonder how people will react in 2021 when Jesper Wallstedt goes No. 1....
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No way Wallstedt goes 1, maybe 5-10
I’d take Raty over him right now pretty easily
 
The names that intrigue me after the top 3 or so are

Dach at center & Broberg on D

Both are big kids

Dach reminds me a bit of Getzlaf
 
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Joey Bones said:
I would say so. Goalie in particular. Knight is going to go a lot sooner than people expect. Lots of scouts see him going in the teens....

You saw last year that Montreal went center with Kotkaniemi (although he was going to go top 5 at the time), but then Arizona took Hayton at No. 5. Kind of crazy thinking that Q. Hughes, Zadina, Kratvsov were available then.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and you especially see teams navigate in terms of getting a safe player or taking a flier on a kid with boom/bust potential. The better team must have a steady stream of infusion of ELCs that can play, but not necessarily become core players. There are a few picks each draft influenced in that regard, it seems like. Take a kid like Tolvanen, I have a hard time seing him drop the way he did if all teams infront of him where expansion teams selecting the first kid in franchise history. A few teams probably saw him as a player who probably needs to play on a scoring line and won’t be a great fit deeper in the lineup, and hence opted for kids that were deemed to be more likely to be able to come in and fill a jersey fast.

On the other side of the spectrum, you will also see teams maybe reaching a little too far to take a kid with ‘high potential’, because that is what they need. Game changers.

RDs are also given a premium in relation to LDs. Like there are 2 LDs for every 1 RD out there, organizations by de fault have a bigger need for RDs. It’s of course hard to quantify, but in a few cases at least each draft it seems like an RD went a little higher than he would have had as an LD.
 
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"Ok since I know like nothing outside of Hughes kakko and pod....whose the big time shooter in this draft class..the guy with the bomb of a shot who can beat goalies clean from anywhere from the circles in...

I feel like we need more our shooters. "
@Inferno

Kaliyev has by far the best shot.

Might not be what ur looking for but Axel Bergkvist is up there aswell when it comes to shooting ability, overage D-man though :P
 
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If things break right today Rangers would gave a shot at getting the #19 provided the Jets got knocked off in the first 2 rounds.

If that happens do you try to move up to the mid teens if a Caufield is there?
 
UAGoalieGuy said:
If things break right today Rangers would gave a shot at getting the #19 provided the Jets got knocked off in the first 2 rounds.

If that happens do you try to move up to the mid teens if a Caufield is there?
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I’d rather move up for either Newhook or Soderstrom, but that’s me.
 
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