Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part II

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I completely disagree. A franchise goalie is much more important as a late first round pick than a guy that tops out as a bottom 6 or 4-6 dman.

Agree to disagree here big time. And again especially if you have multiple first round picks. This kid isn’t a maybe like Montoya who got famous off a tournament. Knight is a total stud.

Elite goalies with good centers and D-men don't win cups. Elite centers and D-men with good goalies do.

But aside from this: Do we really need Knight with Shestyorkin coming over? Goalies hold limited value on the trade market.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Elite goalies with good centers and D-men don't win cups. Elite centers and D-men with good goalies do.

But aside from this: Do we really need Knight with Shestyorkin coming over? Goalies hold limited value on the trade market.

IF hes the best player available, you take him and worry about the details later.

 

[Fvital92]

IF hes the best player available, you take him and worry about the details later.

That was what got us in trouble in the 2nd round last year. Just draft goalies after the 3rd round, they are totally a crapshoot anyway.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The problem with Best Player Available is that it’s subjective and not objective

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The problem with Best Player Available is that it’s subjective and not objective

BPA is a concept that stems from subjective rankings.

 

[Leetch3]

bpa just means don’t pick based on position to fill a need. Whatever you use to rank players take the guy that is #1 on your list regardless of position period. The fact that there might not be an universally agreed on ‘best player’ is irrelevant

 

[Mikos87]

BPA or not, if the Rangers don't get Hughes, as much as I like Cozens... I'm leanin towards Byram being a better and much needed pick for the Rangers.

 

[True Blue]

BPA or not, if the Rangers don't get Hughes, as much as I like Cozens... I'm leanin towards Byram being a better and much needed pick for the Rangers.

I agree. Between him and Miller, if most not even all goes right, you take away one side of the ice pretty much for the entire game.

 

[Kovalev27]

That was what got us in trouble in the 2nd round last year. Just draft goalies after the 3rd round, they are totally a crapshoot anyway.

No that’s not what happened. We did not take the best player in the second round. We took an average goalie in a bad goalie year in the second round.

Spencer Knight is an elite prospect.

 

[Rangers in 7]

No that’s not what happened. We did not take the best player in the second round. We took an average goalie in a bad goalie year in the second round.

Spencer Knight is an elite prospect.

i dont see the purpose of picking knight, shesty is our goalie of the future

 

[McRanger]

i dont see the purpose of picking knight, shesty is our goalie of the future

Not advocating drafting Spencer but he and Shesty are 5 years apart.

Not everyone has long careers like Hank, one might be leaving their prime as the other enters it.

 

[offdacrossbar]

love being a contrarian here.

i think kalyev is a money play mid 1st. if hes there, i take him without reservation. that ability to finish and that shot is something all teams need. kid just knows how to score and does it with great accuracy and velocity. imo, he has the best release in the draft. hes definitely not OW2.0

although byram is a popular choice here, not sure i take a dman that high in this draft with all the forwards. my D choice would be the top D skater in the draft in broberg whom i think will be there after the top 10 picks, inc. byram are long gone. broberg has a flawless stride and the length you want in a projectable top dman. he not the sexy choice that byram is but hes a great 2nd pick after you snag that forward with your top pick. also like honka as well from a purely offensive play. great wheels and hands. kids a shifty playmaking dman with crazy edge work in the brannstrom/boqvist mold. later 1st play here makes sense.

and no goalies in round 1. please.

 

[SA16]

I would actually be fine with drafting Spencer Knight this year. As long as it's in the 7th round.

 

[McRanger]

Elite goalies with good centers and D-men don't win cups. Elite centers and D-men with good goalies do.

I don't think any team is winning anything with just one elite player. You need talent, period. It doesn't matter whether what position.

It's weird how this mentality is the polar opposite of the one from the 90's, where it was basically accepted you weren't winning without an elite goalie.

 

[True Blue]

although byram is a popular choice here, not sure i take a dman that high in this draft with all the forwards. my D choice would be the top D skater in the draft in broberg whom i think will be there after the top 10 picks, inc. byram are long gone. broberg has a flawless stride and the length you want in a projectable top dman. he not the sexy choice that byram is but hes a great 2nd pick after you snag that forward with your top pick.

I actually think that Byram is not the popular choice around here. And I understand the liking of Broberg, but he is NOT Byram. With Byram, you are talking about a Burns/Doughty possibility. That is NOT Broberg. Byram becomes your #1 defenseman

 

[Trxjw]

i dont see the purpose of picking knight, shesty is our goalie of the future

I'm not advocating a goalie early, but nobody is the goalie of the future until they establish themselves as such. We had Cloutier, Blackburn, and Montoya only to wind up with some Swedish kid from the 7th round.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I'm not advocating a goalie early, but nobody is the goalie of the future until they establish themselves as such. We had Cloutier, Blackburn, and Montoya only to wind up with some Swedish kid from the 7th round.

But you’ve hit on why I hate spending draft currency on a goalie. There’s just not enough value in taking a goalie no matter how good he is for my liking.

 

[Trxjw]

But you’ve hit on why I hate spending draft currency on a goalie. There’s just not enough value in taking a goalie no matter how good he is for my liking.

I don't like using early picks on goalies, but drafting them is still necessary, IMO. If you don't draft one yourself you just end up spending assests down the line to try and find one, and that can be just as much of a debacle.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't think any team is winning anything with just one elite player. You need talent, period. It doesn't matter whether what position.

It's weird how this mentality is the polar opposite of the one from the 90's, where it was basically accepted you weren't winning without an elite goalie.

There was no salary cap in the 90s. Completely different situation

 

[True Blue]

I don't like using early picks on goalies, but drafting them is still necessary, IMO. If you don't draft one yourself you just end up spending assests down the line to try and find one, and that can be just as much of a debacle.

Agreed. Though in fairness, Montoya aside, Cloutier carved out pretty respectable career for himself. And Blackburn looked to have promise, prior to his injury. Not one of them Henke of course, but still. That said, yeah, you can spend a long time looking for a capable starting goalie. Just look at the time between Richter and Henke.

 

[Trxjw]

Agreed. Though in fairness, Montoya aside, Cloutier carved out pretty respectable career for himself. And Blackburn looked to have promise, prior to his injury. Not one of them Henke of course, but still. That said, yeah, you can spend a long time looking for a capable starting goalie. Just look at the time between Richter and Henke.

That's also very true. There can always be extenuating circumstances.

I also don't want anyone thinking I'm disparaging Shesty here either. I think he's an elite goalie prospect and has a high probability of being a top tier NHL starter.

 

[McRanger]

There was no salary cap in the 90s. Completely different situation

It takes the same things to win in any era. And the main thing you need are players that are going to make an impact on the ice. And a goalie can be a difference maker just as much as a center. Talent is talent in any era.

As for being in the "cap era" the difference in salary between the top 5 highest paid starting goalies and the bottom 5 starting goalies is like 5% of the cap. And unless you are completely mismanaging your team that difference has no effect on your other core players and typically spread out throughout the whole roster; depth is typically what takes a hit when players get paid, not your ability to keep your star players. If you are downgrading from a Lundqvist to a Scott Darling or Matt Murray so that you can use that extra cap space to re-sign a Brendan Smith and a bottom six winger, you are probably doing something wrong.

Like I said the 180 degree change from just a few years ago is weird. Maybe its because this just isn't a time when there are many star goalies, so people are focused on centers. I mean its no secret why teams win with "star centers", it's because you need top players to win and most of the top players are centers. If half the league was named Harold there would probably be a lot of Harolds winning the cup.

 

[Joey Bones]

love being a contrarian here.

i think kalyev is a money play mid 1st. if hes there, i take him without reservation. that ability to finish and that shot is something all teams need. kid just knows how to score and does it with great accuracy and velocity. imo, he has the best release in the draft. hes definitely not OW2.0

although byram is a popular choice here, not sure i take a dman that high in this draft with all the forwards. my D choice would be the top D skater in the draft in broberg whom i think will be there after the top 10 picks, inc. byram are long gone. broberg has a flawless stride and the length you want in a projectable top dman. he not the sexy choice that byram is but hes a great 2nd pick after you snag that forward with your top pick. also like honka as well from a purely offensive play. great wheels and hands. kids a shifty playmaking dman with crazy edge work in the brannstrom/boqvist mold. later 1st play here makes sense.

and no goalies in round 1. please.

Kaliyev would be a good pick after the top 15, IMO. His skating stride does give me some question marks. But he's definitely no Nolan Foote....

The thing with Broberg that scares me is that he doesn't control the puck well on his rushes, which could cause a turnover and an odd-man chance the other way. He was exposed multiple times in the Hlinka with that and still with AIK. Not so sure if I want to risk that with a 1st round pick. 2nd and/or later, absolutely!!

I would take Honka in the mid to late first round. Think he gets a bad rep for not producing much in Liiga, ATM. He's a pretty good player, awareness-wise.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Connor McMichael could be another solid target for a mid-first round pick. He's having a great year in London.

In my opinion, Kaliyev's speed isn't a problem since, from what I've seen, he's willing to engage in the physical areas of the ice and earn the space to get his shot off. Have we ever even drafted a kid that can score goals as proficiently as he can in the last decade? Duclair and Grachev didn't hit their scoring booms until their D+1 year. Kaliyev scored 31 in 68 games in his D-2 season AND he's a late birthday.

 

[Mikos87]

I agree. Between him and Miller, if most not even all goes right, you take away one side of the ice pretty much for the entire game.

Yeah, and I think he's going to add an element the current crop lacks, which is consistency and mental toughness. There's no give in his game. Guy is the total package.