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Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

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If Zadina falls out of the top 3-4. Rangers should have a trade up option. The way he gets himself open in the offensive zone combined with his shot and determination -- it's a very rare combo. Would be a real difference maker.
 
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I think one of the advantages in terms of player selection the Rangers have this year is patience, could see players like Hughes, Zadina, Boqvist fall because they might be further away from being in the NHL
 
GeorgeKaplan said:
I think one of the advantages in terms of player selection the Rangers have this year is patience, could see players like Hughes, Zadina, Boqvist fall because they might be further away from being in the NHL
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FYI, Hughes and Zadina are 2 of the 3 oldest top picks in the draft. Hughes also played in the WC and Zadina was close to playing in it. The only one considered further away from the NHL is Boqvist. Who also said so in his media appearance at the combine. He is one of the youngest players in the top 3 rounds of the draft.
 
Chytiljuice said:
No doubt they'll get good players, I just think it drops off a bit right where the Isles' 2 picks come up.
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If 2 or 3 late risers make their way into the top 10 the Isles will be looking at some good names when they are up. They could end up with one of the top 5 D as well as Farabee or Kravtsov. That would be a solid first round.
 
Phoicon said:
FYI, Hughes and Zadina are 2 of the 3 oldest top picks in the draft. Hughes also played in the WC and Zadina was close to playing in it. The only one considered further away from the NHL is Boqvist. Who also said so in his media appearance at the combine. He is one of the youngest players in the top 3 rounds of the draft.
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I think Hughes does at least another year in college. But I’m more trying to say that Tkachuk and Bouchard could be preferable to teams that think they need immediate help because they’re more physically ready than others
 
Mats Zuccarelli said:




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Don´t worry about these things. Cardiovascular fitness + a bit of back and leg strength can easily be gained with a bit more intensive training in the summer. Hockey players have a limited amount of time each off-season to focus on particular abilities/skills. Some pay more attention to physical training earlier on, some later. If you look how Prentiss or others train hockey players - they do not squat heavy or bench heavy at all.

A lot of modern physical preparation is just intensive cardio + volume training. Plus a bit of aerobics and yoga, actually, that goes on behind the scenes :) What I am trying to say is that - each offseason you have to choose what to focus on and as a young kid you often don´t get the choice between on-ice drills vs off-ice drills vs just running in the day + watching the tape in the evening etc.. etc.. etc..

A poor showing does not affect Zadina´s future in the NHL at all. All of them have the base fitness level that for example, Sean Day lacks to this day.
 
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Phoicon said:
FYI, Hughes and Zadina are 2 of the 3 oldest top picks in the draft. Hughes also played in the WC and Zadina was close to playing in it. The only one considered further away from the NHL is Boqvist. Who also said so in his media appearance at the combine. He is one of the youngest players in the top 3 rounds of the draft.
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I want to say that something like 4 out of the 10 usual suspects are ‘99 birthdays. I haven’t had time to see if that’s on the high end, but it seems to be a bit higher on first impression.

On the other end of the spectrum you have Boqvist, Kotkaniemi and Wahlstrom.
 
Edge said:
I want to say that something like 4 out of the 10 usual suspects are ‘99 birthdays. I haven’t had time to see if that’s on the high end, but it seems to be a bit higher on first impression.

On the other end of the spectrum you have Boqvist, Kotkaniemi and Wahlstrom.
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Purely based on my biased and amateurish look at the top 10. I don´t rate either Tkachuk or Bouchard in the top 10:
  1. Dahlin - 2000
  2. Svechnikov - 2000
  3. Boqvist - 2000
  4. Wahlstrom - 2000
  5. Kotkaniemi - 2000
  6. Dobson - 2000
  7. Zadina - 1999
  8. Hughes - 1999
  9. Kravtsov - 1999
  10. Farabee - 2000
Anyhow, I was trying to make a wider point :)
 
Phoicon said:
Let´s ignore that WJC is not the most important metric in the world and discuss this topic.

Nothing really remarkable about them playing in the WJC-20. As I said above they are both in the same age range as Chytil or Brännström for that matter. Tkachuk showed good hands and passing skills with great positioning and on-ice awareness. However, Zadina was just as good in all of the categories that Tkachuk excelled in and then you have to add to that just insane shot generation combined with just lethal sniper-like accuracy.

You can compare their shots by going to 2:26 in this clip:

and around the 50-second mark in the following for Tkachuk:

Zadina´s shot speed, placement, accuracy just shines.

That being said, both Tkachuk and Zadina benefited from playing on the top 6 on teams that had their top centre drawing defenders on another line (Mittelstadt, Chytil). Spreading of the offense seemed to be a common strategy for coaches in that tournament. Chytil struggled a bit with it while Mittelstadt thrived (don´t worry about it, Mittelstadt is almost a year older than Chytil).

(the Czech coaches then moved Kaut to play with Chytil IIRC and Tkachuk did play on PP1 with Mittelstadt).

I think the NHL draft screws our perspective when comparing prospects - we should compare them in terms of the birth year, not the draft year. All-in-all, in terms of 1999-born players, I would easily rank Zadina over Tkachuk. I would place Chytil above both as well when it comes down to it.
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Tkachuk rep is not of a goal scorer. His offensive skill rep is passer. And if Zadina exells as a shooter, Tkachuk beats him in physical and board play (not even mentioning a shot of nastiness, if you will).
 
Sayba said:
I don't know how many but Bob McKenzie said he was at the bottom of the group at the combine. Going through the results I could find Liam Foudy had the best overall combine
2018 NHL Combine results: Top 10 at each drill - Sportsnet.ca
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Foudy is a former track-and-field athlete. So that was not a surprise to many scouts. Takes a lot of work for that to translate to NHL level hockey.

But it can be an asset. Anyhow, what follows is just my stupid opinion.

For me, the NHL Combine measures things too much like the NFL or other NA sports. The vertical jump and some other tests just sound silly.
  • VO2max, on the other hand, is useful but only if you combine it with on-ice skills and compare similarly skilled players. It is perhaps the most valuable statistics scouts can take away. If comparing two similarly skilled players one has better endurance than the other than that is perhaps the most important factor to functioning on a high level late in the season, in back-to-back games and protecting against injury.
  • Pull-ups depend on prior, often non-hockey related training and how an individual's back muscles have developed. There are people who just have to focus specifically overcoming their lack of back muscle development with specific training. Question is - do you want to spend time doing it if you are developing a top prospect? It´s not really a predictor of NHL success for a highly skilled player.
  • I have no idea how grip strength is hockey related. And I am someone who likes doing deadlifts without wraps or a belt.
  • The power output tests on the bike and on the bench are somewhat useful. But there you have to compare similarly sized players with each other. On the bench, there is a rough correlation with a heavy shot and you can see Svechnikov and Wahlstrom with the same result. And on the bike likewise with the strength of first strides in skating (Boqvist and Dobson ranking high there).
 
kovazub94 said:
Tkachuk rep is not of a goal scorer. His offensive skill rep is passer. And if Zadina exells as a shooter, Tkachuk beats him in physical and board play (not even mentioning a shot of nastiness, if you will).
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Not really even close to an even comparison. Shot generation is the premium skill in today´s hockey. And an accurate sniper is very desirable.

Besides that, Zadina is a great player alongside the boards. More aware defensively and a better two-way player than Tkachuk, who is OK as well.

Physicality is meaningful as an indicator but not really something you compare top draft picks for. More of a nice-to-have. Don´t draft for nice-to-have abilities in the top 10, IMHO.
 
Sarge13 said:
Zadina dropping and you want to trade up for him??

RED FLAG
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It's one thing to drop because of bad interviews and poor reports, but it's another to drop because there are so many other risers.

Zadina is dropping because he's a winger. Teams in the top 5 want a center or defenseman. I'd be floored if he drops past Detroit at 6, and even I'm thinking they're taking a defenseman.
 
Kessell dropped. He also has the physique of the guy who fixes my car.

If Zadina gets past 5 we should be all over it. We havent had a prospect with 40 goal potential since Brendl, unless you count Jessiman (We're due?) We're in a position where we've got the centers we need moving forward. Chytil, Howden, Andersson for the long future, Hayes and Zibanejad for the foreseeable future, so we can afford to go after the flashy winger instead.
 
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Leetch3 said:
depends on why he is dropping...based on the rumors it sounds like other teams are taking a lesser player to draft based on position, not that they don't think zadina is good
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Let's just say I'm not buying that excuse.
 
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