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Prospect Info: Draft 2025: Is it too late to tank? Asking for a friend

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Empoleon8771 said:
It's hilarious that you posted a list that has an overwhelming majority of #4/5 picks not being "franchise altering" players and somehow act like you're right because of it.
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lol, ok chief. Great argument.

Just a bunch of losers who've won Cups, Norris trophies, have 100-point seasons and/or made their respective 4 nations teams. Total losers all around.
 
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Ragamuffin Gunner said:
lol, ok chief. Great argument.
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How is that not a great argument? You're acting like they're going to miss out on some "franchise altering" player by picking at #4 rather than #9. Of the decade of drafts you posted, there are only like 3 "franchise altering" players taken at #4 or #5. It's Marner, Makar and maybe Pettersson, with Demidov looking like he has that upside.

Yes, the Penguins will get a worse prospect at #9 than at #4. No, that doesn't mean they're going to have a "franchise altering mistake" by picking at #9 rather than #4. The most likely scenario from the drafts you posted is that they'll get Rossi/Ehlers/Guenther upside player, while #4 will be a Tkachuk/Sanderson/Johnson upside player with a bit lower of a bust risk than the group at #9.

Getting William Nylander (Eklund's upside) instead of Brady Tkachuk (Martone's upside) is not "franchise altering". Missing out on Schaefer and Misa would be "franchise altering", because those guys actually have the upside to warrant that kind of statement.
 
I'd love O'Brien 0r Eklund at 9th overall, but I'm afraid of McQueen being their at the penguins pick. I'm hoping he going before the 9th pick.
 
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Rudy Russo said:
I'd love O'Brien 0r Eklund at 9th overall, but I'm afraid of McQueen being their at the penguins pick. I'm hoping he going before the 9th pick.
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I'm not worried about that at all. McQueen just doesn't fit at all with the kind of picks Dubas and Clarke have made.

I think their pick will be one of O'Brien, Eklund or Martin. Those guys all fit Dubas' track record with picks far more than McQueen. If it's not one of those three, I'd throw out Smith as a guy that fits well based on the Sandin and Niemela picks.
 
Im kinda Eklund or bust but it’ll take years to figure out if we hit on this pick. Which kinda is another issue/ sucky part of drafting 9th bs top 5. Realistically could be 2-3-4 years off seeing the player become a regular and understanding what we have instead of 1-2 years.
 
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It's fine they'll jump up to 2nd overall and take Misa. Then win the McKenna lotto after Sid decides to get wrist surgery a calendar year after his injury, and end up with the 5th overall pick as well from the Rangers punting to next year.
 
You can bring up all the late picks you want, but it doesn't help your "argument". If you don't understand how a draft works, then there is no point in trying to discuss drafting with you.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I'm not worried about that at all. McQueen just doesn't fit at all with the kind of picks Dubas and Clarke have made.

I think their pick will be one of O'Brien, Eklund or Martin. Those guys all fit Dubas' track record with picks far more than McQueen. If it's not one of those three, I'd throw out Smith as a guy that fits well based on the Sandin and Niemela picks.
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I'd be happy with any one of those three players.
 
CheckingLineCenter said:
Im kinda Eklund or bust but it’ll take years to figure out if we hit on this pick. Which kinda is another issue/ sucky part of drafting 9th bs top 5. Realistically could be 2-3-4 years off seeing the player become a regular and understanding what we have instead of 1-2 years.
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Tbh I don't really get the vibe that Martone or Hagens are any closer to NHL ready than guys like Eklund, Desnoyers or O'Brien.

Higher upside sure, but I don't see much of a difference in their timelines for NHL readiness. I feel like Desnoyers is probably the fastest guy to the NHL outside of the top-2.
 
Big Friggin Dummy said:
I think everybody outside of Schaefer and Misa--and maybe even those two--goes a year before NHL duty.

Couple months ago Michigan was courting McKenna and Martone, and Boston U was courting Misa. So we'll see. Probably better for their overall development tbh.
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I don't think anyone in this draft should be in the NHL next year. Schaefer and Misa should get a year in college and everyone else should get at least 2 more years in college or juniors.

If the Penguins win the lottery and somehow get to pick Schaefer or Misa, I'd be telling them to pick a college to go to and they can burn a year of their ELC at the end of the 2025-2026 season.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
I think everybody outside of Schaefer and Misa--and maybe even those two--goes a year before NHL duty.

Couple months ago Michigan was courting McKenna and Martone, and Boston U was courting Misa. So we'll see. Probably better for their overall development tbh.
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That's totally fine. Suck again next year and have two high picks play the final few years with Sid like Lemieux did 20 years ago should have been the goal.

Now they'll prolly try to win again next year and get another banger around 10th overall instead of a shot a McKenna.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
I think there's a slight chance someone like Martone or Hagens falls to 7th--not a good chance, but it's still probably within realistic bounds. I think at 9th, you're in that worst case scenario spot where even if a few teams up high take a McQueen, Desnoyers, or O'Brien early, you're still out of range of landing one of the "next tier" like Hagens or Martone. But like others have said, the real issue is that this team could've been sitting 4th or 5th.

I dunno. It is what it is. I'm not like, livid or anything (buddy I can't muster anything but borderline apathy with this dogshit org anymore lol), but it's tough not to be a little annoyed by this self inflicted bullshit, year after year. We're nearly a decade removed from the last playoff round win. It's damn likely we don't see Sid play playoff hockey again, and if we do, it'll be a "thanks for showing up, enjoy golfing in a week" appearance. We have a loser coach who simply cannot be held accountable for his role in the decline, because ownership and Sid love him. We had years of JR chasing 3rd liners and paying 1st liner prices. We had whatever the f*** Hextall did while he was here. Now we've got Dubas/FSG doing more of this "we're still gonna try and compete with Sid" PR-speak trash while they hover around the bottom of the league, refusing to accept reality and do what needs to be done to try and mitigate the misery of the post-Sid years.

You trade Rakell at the TDL for a 1st+prospect, you trade Rust once the FA dust settles and his NTC drops off, you trade EK once his bonus has been payed--this team could pretty realistically be looking at like Martone this draft and McKenna next. I know, I know "they're not centers or RHD!" That's still an exceptional haul for a team like the Pens.
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This is just about perfectly said. But me , I'm ****ing livid 😡😡
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Tbh I don't really get the vibe that Martone or Hagens are any closer to NHL ready than guys like Eklund, Desnoyers or O'Brien.

Higher upside sure, but I don't see much of a difference in their timelines for NHL readiness. I feel like Desnoyers is probably the fastest guy to the NHL outside of the top-2
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I don’t just mean NHL ready. I mean out of their respective leagues and enough NHL time to understand how they fit in a line up long term. Its important to understand what you have somewhat quickly with these picks.

I think OB is realistically 4 seasons away from that. I have no idea on Desnoyers who I don’t like.

But maybe you get Eklund in here after 1-2 year. All of the top 4 can play in a year IMO as well as Frondell.
 
No need to sugarcoat anything. Relative to how bad this team really is, we couldn't have ended much worse than 9th. Very inefficient manner by which to enter the offseason. We tied for 4TH worst goal differential but ended up 9th overall. That sucks any way you slice it.
 
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