Prospect Info: Draft 2025: Is it too late to tank? Asking for a friend

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I can't believe the hockeybuzz guy is even draft eligible at this point.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

You can bring up all the late picks you want, but it doesn't help your "argument". If you don't understand how a draft works, then there is no point in trying to discuss drafting with you.

 

[Rudy Russo]

I'm not worried about that at all. McQueen just doesn't fit at all with the kind of picks Dubas and Clarke have made.

I think their pick will be one of O'Brien, Eklund or Martin. Those guys all fit Dubas' track record with picks far more than McQueen. If it's not one of those three, I'd throw out Smith as a guy that fits well based on the Sandin and Niemela picks.

I'd be happy with any one of those three players.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd be happy with any one of those three players.

Martin should be there. Pretty sure we'd at least get him if we choose to. O'Brien and Eklund are a step or two up ATM.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

 

[Empoleon8771]

Im kinda Eklund or bust but it’ll take years to figure out if we hit on this pick. Which kinda is another issue/ sucky part of drafting 9th bs top 5. Realistically could be 2-3-4 years off seeing the player become a regular and understanding what we have instead of 1-2 years.

Tbh I don't really get the vibe that Martone or Hagens are any closer to NHL ready than guys like Eklund, Desnoyers or O'Brien.

Higher upside sure, but I don't see much of a difference in their timelines for NHL readiness. I feel like Desnoyers is probably the fastest guy to the NHL outside of the top-2.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think everybody outside of Schaefer and Misa--and maybe even those two--goes a year before NHL duty.

Couple months ago Michigan was courting McKenna and Martone, and Boston U was courting Misa. So we'll see. Probably better for their overall development tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think everybody outside of Schaefer and Misa--and maybe even those two--goes a year before NHL duty.

Couple months ago Michigan was courting McKenna and Martone, and Boston U was courting Misa. So we'll see. Probably better for their overall development tbh.

I don't think anyone in this draft should be in the NHL next year. Schaefer and Misa should get a year in college and everyone else should get at least 2 more years in college or juniors.

If the Penguins win the lottery and somehow get to pick Schaefer or Misa, I'd be telling them to pick a college to go to and they can burn a year of their ELC at the end of the 2025-2026 season.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I think everybody outside of Schaefer and Misa--and maybe even those two--goes a year before NHL duty.

Couple months ago Michigan was courting McKenna and Martone, and Boston U was courting Misa. So we'll see. Probably better for their overall development tbh.

That's totally fine. Suck again next year and have two high picks play the final few years with Sid like Lemieux did 20 years ago should have been the goal.

Now they'll prolly try to win again next year and get another banger around 10th overall instead of a shot a McKenna.

 

[DRAGO 18]

I think there's a slight chance someone like Martone or Hagens falls to 7th--not a good chance, but it's still probably within realistic bounds. I think at 9th, you're in that worst case scenario spot where even if a few teams up high take a McQueen, Desnoyers, or O'Brien early, you're still out of range of landing one of the "next tier" like Hagens or Martone. But like others have said, the real issue is that this team could've been sitting 4th or 5th.

I dunno. It is what it is. I'm not like, livid or anything (buddy I can't muster anything but borderline apathy with this dogshit org anymore lol), but it's tough not to be a little annoyed by this self inflicted bullshit, year after year. We're nearly a decade removed from the last playoff round win. It's damn likely we don't see Sid play playoff hockey again, and if we do, it'll be a "thanks for showing up, enjoy golfing in a week" appearance. We have a loser coach who simply cannot be held accountable for his role in the decline, because ownership and Sid love him. We had years of JR chasing 3rd liners and paying 1st liner prices. We had whatever the f*** Hextall did while he was here. Now we've got Dubas/FSG doing more of this "we're still gonna try and compete with Sid" PR-speak trash while they hover around the bottom of the league, refusing to accept reality and do what needs to be done to try and mitigate the misery of the post-Sid years.

You trade Rakell at the TDL for a 1st+prospect, you trade Rust once the FA dust settles and his NTC drops off, you trade EK once his bonus has been payed--this team could pretty realistically be looking at like Martone this draft and McKenna next. I know, I know "they're not centers or RHD!" That's still an exceptional haul for a team like the Pens.

This is just about perfectly said. But me , I'm ****ing livid

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Tbh I don't really get the vibe that Martone or Hagens are any closer to NHL ready than guys like Eklund, Desnoyers or O'Brien.

Higher upside sure, but I don't see much of a difference in their timelines for NHL readiness. I feel like Desnoyers is probably the fastest guy to the NHL outside of the top-2

I don’t just mean NHL ready. I mean out of their respective leagues and enough NHL time to understand how they fit in a line up long term. Its important to understand what you have somewhat quickly with these picks.

I think OB is realistically 4 seasons away from that. I have no idea on Desnoyers who I don’t like.

But maybe you get Eklund in here after 1-2 year. All of the top 4 can play in a year IMO as well as Frondell.

 

[Ryder71]

No need to sugarcoat anything. Relative to how bad this team really is, we couldn't have ended much worse than 9th. Very inefficient manner by which to enter the offseason. We tied for 4TH worst goal differential but ended up 9th overall. That sucks any way you slice it.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I'm just going to tell myself they were going to draft Eklund regardless if they were 4th or 10th.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t just mean NHL ready. I mean out of their respective leagues and enough NHL time to understand how they fit in a line up long term. Its important to understand what you have somewhat quickly with these picks.

I think OB is realistically 4 seasons away from that. I have no idea on Desnoyers who I don’t like.

But maybe you get Eklund in here after 1-2 year. All of the top 4 can play in a year IMO as well as Frondell.

I think it may be even longer than that with most of the top of this class. I know Hagens isn’t Leonard and Perreault, but seeing how ineffective Leonard and Perreault have been in the NHL in a small sample size this year does make me wonder how long it will take for Hagens to be an impact player in the NHL. It seems like Leonard won’t be that until his draft+3 year at minimum, will Hagens be faster? Hagens does have the advantage of playing his freshman year in his draft year, but Leonard’s freshman year was way better than Hagens’ freshman year.

I think Hagens probably turns pro after his college season next year, but I’m not sure he should be doing that. If I could decide, I’d be pushing Hagens to play another 2 years in college.

But I agree that Hagens, Martone, Frondell and Eklund seem to be on about the same timeframe for making the NHL and showing what they’re capable of. I’d put Desnoyers and possibly Martin in that group as well, but those two may be the Brandon Sutter types of “make the NHL fast but learn they don’t have high NHL upside fast”.

 

[Pancakes]

That's totally fine. Suck again next year and have two high picks play the final few years with Sid like Lemieux did 20 years ago should have been the goal.

Now they'll prolly try to win again next year and get another banger around 10th overall instead of a shot a McKenna.

They're not going to have a shot at McKenna or Dupont with Sid still here. It's not even worth getting upset about.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

They're not going to have a shot at McKenna or Dupont with Sid still here. It's not even worth getting upset about.

They were literally 2 wins away from 4th last this year.

 

[Pancakes]

They were literally 2 wins away from 4th last this year.

To have an actual good shot they'd need to finish last which they will not.

Even second is like what 13.5 percent? Not odds I'd want to rely on.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Thinking about it some, taking Eklund at #9 and Martin at #11 feels like a very Dubas/Clarke kind of draft if they get the Rangers pick. Wouldn’t be surprised if they trade down with that Rangers pick, but those two would fit really well with their past track record. I’m a bit uncertain with Martin’s upside, but he feels like a guy that this front office would love with his play style. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to hear if that ended up true.

Either way, now we just need to wait for the lottery and later what the Rangers decide to do with their pick

 

[Ryder71]

To have an actual good shot they'd need to finish last which they will not.

Even second is like what 13.5 percent? Not odds I'd want to rely on.

You know, there's other players available beyond McKenna. In other words if you get a top five pick you're likely to get a very good player. You have a chance at glory, but if not you're getting one of the best that crop has to offer. I wouldn't completely disregard a top 2-5 pick if that's what happened.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I know Hagens isn’t Leonard and Perreault, but seeing how ineffective Leonard and Perreault have been in the NHL in a small sample size this year does make me wonder how long it will take for Hagens to be an impact player in the NHL. It seems like Leonard won’t be that until his draft+3 year at minimum, will Hagens be faster? Hagens does have the advantage of playing his freshman year in his draft year, but Leonard’s freshman year was way better than Hagens’ freshman year.

Hagens a much better prospect than either and will have a freshman year under his belt. He’ll play games at the end of next season schedule permitting.

Feel like ur kinda making my point too. Caps won’t really know where a guy like Leonard is going to slot in their lineup long term until after his d+3 at best. And he is considered a good pick at 8OA.

 

[Ryder71]

They were literally 2 wins away from 4th last this year.

Yep and everyone here would be stoked and for good reason. 9th feels like huge letdown in comparison. Hell 7th would be good relative to where we are now.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Yep and everyone here would be stoked and for good reason. 9th feels like huge letdown in comparison. Hell 7th would be good relative to where we are now.

I hope Buffalo wins the lotto so all the "see it doesn't make a difference" arguments die immediately.

 

[Ryder71]

I hope Buffalo wins the lotto so all the "see it doesn't make a difference" arguments die immediately.

I was thinking that exact same thing as soon as the Pens game ended.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I hope Buffalo wins the lotto so all the "see it doesn't make a difference" arguments die immediately.

Every time they win the lottery the top prospect is a defenseman, lol.

 

[Ryder71]

I hope Buffalo wins the lotto so all the "see it doesn't make a difference" arguments die immediately.

Seriously, I wonder how far we'd have to drop in the draft order for people to think it does make a difference. Like 6th >> 9th regarding draft order, yet some act as if it's no big deal. Would we have to finish 12th, 15th? Where does it matter? Just absolute denial by some.