Dorion's biggest mistake in 2022...

[bert]

I don't give a f*** about management. Get it through your thick f***ing skull. You guys just hate getting called out for your stupid bullshit all the time. And you use hindsight to make your arguments like anyone who makes a f***ing decision in a professional capacity has that benefit to aid in their judgement. He had "potential" and "pedigree"...so f***ing what? Tons of young guys have "potential" and draft pedigree. He wasn't meeting that potential, was getting outplayed by the most maligned goalie since Leclaire and didn't seem to be showing enough of an improvement to justify staking an entire season to him "potentially" playing better. That's f***ing objective, not this f***ing ongoing farce of constantly criticizing the outcome of every decision. Again, Murray is posting better numbers this year than either of Talbot or Forsberg, so was it also horrible judgement to trade him away? Would we be better with him? Hell, why didn't we just sign Samsonov in free agency? Or trade for another goalie having a great year? Who says they even wanted a young goalie to play 1B to Forsberg? Maybe they valued experience more than whatever they saw in Gustavsson. Who says Gustavsson would even be posting those numbers in Ottawa this year? Oh right, literally f***ing nothing except guys like Hale vomiting the same take into every f***ing thread over and over and over again.

Get a grip, take a deep breath. You dish it out but cant take it. No hindsight used on my end the post history is there for Gustavsson.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I don't give a f*** about management. Get it through your thick f***ing skull. You guys just hate getting called out for your stupid bullshit all the time. And you use hindsight to make your arguments like anyone who makes a f***ing decision in a professional capacity has that benefit to aid in their judgement. He had "potential" and "pedigree"...so f***ing what? Tons of young guys have "potential" and draft pedigree. He wasn't meeting that potential, was getting outplayed by the most maligned goalie since Leclaire and didn't seem to be showing enough of an improvement to justify staking an entire season to him "potentially" playing better. That's f***ing objective, not this f***ing ongoing farce of constantly criticizing the outcome of every decision. Again, Murray is posting better numbers this year than either of Talbot or Forsberg, so was it also horrible judgement to trade him away? Would we be better with him? Hell, why didn't we just sign Samsonov in free agency? Or trade for another goalie having a great year? Who says they even wanted a young goalie to play 1B to Forsberg? Maybe they valued experience more than whatever they saw in Gustavsson. Who says Gustavsson would even be posting those numbers in Ottawa this year? Oh right, literally f***ing nothing except guys like Hale vomiting the same take into every f***ing thread over and over and over again.

Are GM's not just being paid to try to predict performance and get judged on their moves in large part with hindsight taken in to account?

It's one thing to run around calling Dorion a f***ing idiot, use hyperbole, blah blah blah, but it shouldn't be controversial at all to say it was obviously a bad move knowing what we know now. It was. There's certainly no disputing that part of it. And that has as much to do with Gus overachieving on what he did in Ottawa as it does with Talbot underachieving and being hurt all the time.

Of course there was reasoning from the teams perspective. I bought into it and didn't mind the deal either, but I was dead wrong.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Definately sounds like someone who doesn't care about management.

 

[Xspyrit]

Just made a post elsewhere about this

"If you're a professional and you evaluate players ability with hockeydb.com, you have no business being there

Last game Gus played for Ottawa he was 23 y/o. His pedigree and potential was high. I was initially not very high on him but made a 180° after 2020-21. His ability became very clear to me then, even though I liked Mandolese better in the 2018 rookie tournament

Retaining 25% on Murray x 2 years, dumping him for a 3rd + 7th then taking on a lesser but healthier goalie only making 1 million less than Murray was non-sense all the way. Giving up Gustavsson makes it an horrible asset management.

Also :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) >>>> Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

That might be the difference between playoffs or not"

Are GM's not just being paid to try to predict performance and get judged on their moves in large part with hindsight taken in to account?

It's one thing to run around calling Dorion a f***ing idiot, use hyperbole, blah blah blah, but it shouldn't be controversial at all to say it was obviously a bad move knowing what we know now. It was. There's certainly no disputing that part of it. And that has as much to do with Gus overachieving on what he did in Ottawa as it does with Talbot underachieving and being hurt all the time.

Of course there was reasoning from the teams perspective. I bought into it and didn't mind the deal either, but I was dead wrong.

I am not sure what people are thinking when commentating on GMs work... like if NHL GMs (32 jobs) should be evaluated as if they were HF posters. Of course asset management, pro scouting and FORESIGHT are key. That's literally some of the skills you need to have to be able to have an upper management job

But yes keep it classy at all times, no need for name calling.

Also, look my post above, can't believe what I just found out :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) vs Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

Who the hell makes those decisions? This is terrible on all hockey levels and like I said, that might be the difference between playoffs or not

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Just made a post elsewhere about this

"If you're a professional and you evaluate players ability with hockeydb.com, you have no business being there

Last game Gus played for Ottawa he was 23 y/o. His pedigree and potential was high. I was initially not very high on him but made a 180° after 2020-21. His ability became very clear to me then, even though I liked Mandolese better in the 2018 rookie tournament

Retaining 25% on Murray x 2 years, dumping him for a 3rd + 7th then taking on a lesser but healthier goalie only making 1 million less than Murray was non-sense all the way. Giving up Gustavsson makes it an horrible asset management.

Also :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) >>>> Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

That might be the difference between playoffs or not"



I am not sure what people are thinking when commentating on GMs work... like if NHL GMs (32 jobs) should be evaluated as if they were HF posters. Of course asset management, pro scouting and FORESIGHT are key. That's literally some of the skills you need to have to be able to have an upper management job

But yes keep it classy at all times, no need for name calling.

Also, look my post above, can't believe what I just found out :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) vs Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

Who the hell makes those decisions? This is terrible on all hockey levels and like I said, that might be the difference between playoffs or not

Ya I fail to understand why hindsight is apparently off limits when it comes to judging decisions from GM's. Seems like their job is to try to predict and hedge bets on that.

 

[Icelevel]

Just made a post elsewhere about this

"If you're a professional and you evaluate players ability with hockeydb.com, you have no business being there

Last game Gus played for Ottawa he was 23 y/o. His pedigree and potential was high. I was initially not very high on him but made a 180° after 2020-21. His ability became very clear to me then, even though I liked Mandolese better in the 2018 rookie tournament

Retaining 25% on Murray x 2 years, dumping him for a 3rd + 7th then taking on a lesser but healthier goalie only making 1 million less than Murray was non-sense all the way. Giving up Gustavsson makes it an horrible asset management.

Also :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) >>>> Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

That might be the difference between playoffs or not"



I am not sure what people are thinking when commentating on GMs work... like if NHL GMs (32 jobs) should be evaluated as if they were HF posters. Of course asset management, pro scouting and FORESIGHT are key. That's literally some of the skills you need to have to be able to have an upper management job

But yes keep it classy at all times, no need for name calling.

Also, look my post above, can't believe what I just found out :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) vs Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

Who the hell makes those decisions? This is terrible on all hockey levels and like I said, that might be the difference between playoffs or not

Bolded is crazy. And he’s been doing this since his first move. Should have been fired looooong ago.
Wait….he should have never been hired. That was where the joke started.

 

[bicboi64]

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) vs Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

Even if we overpaid Paul or had him on more term, he's better than both Joseph and Motte lol. Sure he isn't scoring at an unrealistic pace, but he's defensively sound and would be such an awesome player on our bottom 6.

 

[bert]

Who the f*** was talking to you, to tell me about your post history? LOL wtf? So triggered all the time even when I don't address you. And then you tell me to get a grip? Jesus Christ, this is stupid beyond explanation.

You sure nailed it. Look in the mirror.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't give a f*** about management. Get it through your thick f***ing skull. You guys just hate getting called out for your stupid bullshit all the time. And you use hindsight to make your arguments like anyone who makes a f***ing decision in a professional capacity has that benefit to aid in their judgement. He had "potential" and "pedigree"...so f***ing what? Tons of young guys have "potential" and draft pedigree. He wasn't meeting that potential, was getting outplayed by the most maligned goalie since Leclaire and didn't seem to be showing enough of an improvement to justify staking an entire season to him "potentially" playing better. That's f***ing objective, not this f***ing ongoing farce of constantly criticizing the outcome of every decision. Again, Murray is posting better numbers this year than either of Talbot or Forsberg, so was it also horrible judgement to trade him away? Would we be better with him? Hell, why didn't we just sign Samsonov in free agency? Or trade for another goalie having a great year? Who says they even wanted a young goalie to play 1B to Forsberg? Maybe they valued experience more than whatever they saw in Gustavsson. Who says Gustavsson would even be posting those numbers in Ottawa this year? Oh right, literally f***ing nothing except guys like Hale vomiting the same take into every f***ing thread over and over and over again.

lol

 

[Golden_Jet]

I don't give a f*** about management. Get it through your thick f***ing skull. You guys just hate getting called out for your stupid bullshit all the time. And you use hindsight to make your arguments like anyone who makes a f***ing decision in a professional capacity has that benefit to aid in their judgement. He had "potential" and "pedigree"...so f***ing what? Tons of young guys have "potential" and draft pedigree. He wasn't meeting that potential, was getting outplayed by the most maligned goalie since Leclaire and didn't seem to be showing enough of an improvement to justify staking an entire season to him "potentially" playing better. That's f***ing objective, not this f***ing ongoing farce of constantly criticizing the outcome of every decision. Again, Murray is posting better numbers this year than either of Talbot or Forsberg, so was it also horrible judgement to trade him away? Would we be better with him? Hell, why didn't we just sign Samsonov in free agency? Or trade for another goalie having a great year? Who says they even wanted a young goalie to play 1B to Forsberg? Maybe they valued experience more than whatever they saw in Gustavsson. Who says Gustavsson would even be posting those numbers in Ottawa this year? Oh right, literally f***ing nothing except guys like Hale vomiting the same take into every f***ing thread over and over and over again.

Man you get triggered easy, and like to throw stones at people, and hate it if someone doesn’t agree .

like “ get it through your thick ……

Now take a deep breath.

 

[JD1]

I mean it was obvious Gustavsson had alot of talent. He had pedigree too, 2nd round pick top goalie at the WJC. The only poor season he had here was when they had him up and down like a yo yo and were absolutely horrendous in front of him. He outplayed Murray the previous season at 20 years old. To take a page out of your book Im tired of your f***ing routine. You never look at anything objectively you blindly defend everything the organization does then patronize people for disagreeing with you.. The organization can be commended for the good decisions and be criticized for the poor ones. This was a bad one.

It is a bad one. But it's also more of a bad one in hindsight. Gus has had an excellent year in Minnesota. But he was awful the year before and he's also a smaller goalie that doesn't fit the current NHL goalie prototype.

I had no issues at the time of the trade. I liked bringing in a vet goalie. Forsberg didn't have the pedigree to be a 50 game starter.

Might we be in a playoff position with Gus? Possibly yes. But we might be in one if Norris wasn't lost for the season and that wasn't predictable either.

I also think we got some insight into the team's thinking at the TDL when Dorion identified Sogaard as one of 3 untouchables. That was likely part of the thinking last summer

 

[aragorn]

Just made a post elsewhere about this

"If you're a professional and you evaluate players ability with hockeydb.com, you have no business being there

Last game Gus played for Ottawa he was 23 y/o. His pedigree and potential was high. I was initially not very high on him but made a 180° after 2020-21. His ability became very clear to me then, even though I liked Mandolese better in the 2018 rookie tournament

Retaining 25% on Murray x 2 years, dumping him for a 3rd + 7th then taking on a lesser but healthier goalie only making 1 million less than Murray was non-sense all the way. Giving up Gustavsson makes it an horrible asset management.

Also :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) >>>> Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

That might be the difference between playoffs or not"



I am not sure what people are thinking when commentating on GMs work... like if NHL GMs (32 jobs) should be evaluated as if they were HF posters. Of course asset management, pro scouting and FORESIGHT are key. That's literally some of the skills you need to have to be able to have an upper management job

But yes keep it classy at all times, no need for name calling.

Also, look my post above, can't believe what I just found out :

Paul + Brown + Gustavsson ($7,637,500) vs Joseph + Motte + Talbot ($7,966,667)

Who the hell makes those decisions? This is terrible on all hockey levels and like I said, that might be the difference between playoffs or not

PD traded a young goalie who was not having a great yr in Belleville for Talbot who was an all-star goalie the yr before, a legitimate NHL goalie who did have a great yr. Was it a mistake, maybe but there's that saying that you have to give to get & who knows how Gus would have played here in front of this team this yr. They also had Sogaard who the org is high on & is proving could be a good future goalie, I believe he is one of your favourite goalies in the org. I like Merilainen another good goalie in the org & Mandolese is also doing alright although Belleville as a whole has not been a very good team this yr.

This is the nature of sport sometimes your best players get hurt, missing Norris has really hurt & Formenton off to Europe has also hurt & Connor Brown has missed most of this season with injury for Washington. I liked Paul & didn't want him traded & am not a fan of Joseph because of his lack of offence, but he seems to have a lot of energy & skates fast. This is also the nature of sports that you will likely make as many bad trades as you make good ones, at some point you hope to put a team together that can go all the way.

It seems that PD has put together a team this yr although much later than most of us would have liked that mid-way through March is still in the playoff race. Outside this board I think most of the media, pundits & fans give him credit for where this team is right now & to DJ for having them in the race this late in the season. I think both PD & DJ will be judged on next yr & how the team does then, they have to make the playoffs & hopefully make some noise. I doubt they lose their jobs for any of the moves you have indicated or it would have already happened. There still need to be more upgrades to this team & I think there will, I don't see Watson, Holden, Brassard or Brown returning for next season. There should also be a graduate or two next yr. You have to give them some credit they have improved their record from last yr to this yr, they are a much improved team & still in the playoff race with less than 20 games left in the season, that's a huge improvement.

 

[BankStreetParade]

lol

Please don’t @ me

 

[JD1]

PD traded a young goalie who was not having a great yr in Belleville for Talbot who was an all-star goalie the yr before, a legitimate NHL goalie who did have a great yr. Was it a mistake, maybe but there's that saying that you have to give to get & who knows how Gus would have played here in front of this team this yr. They also had Sogaard who the org is high on & is proving could be a good future goalie, I believe he is one of your favourite goalies in the org. I like Merilainen another good goalie in the org & Mandolese is also doing alright although Belleville as a whole has not been a very good team this yr.

This is the nature of sport sometimes your best players get hurt, missing Norris has really hurt & Formenton off to Europe has also hurt & Connor Brown has missed most of this season with injury for Washington. I liked Paul & didn't want him traded & am not a fan of Joseph because of his lack of offence, but he seems to have a lot of energy & skates fast. This is also the nature of sports that you will likely make as many bad trades as you make good ones, at some point you hope to put a team together that can go all the way.

It seems that PD has put together a team this yr although much later than most of us would have liked that mid-way through March is still in the playoff race. Outside this board I think most of the media, pundits & fans give him credit for where this team is right now & to DJ for having them in the race this late in the season. I think both PD & DJ will be judged on next yr & how the team does then, they have to make the playoffs & hopefully make some noise. I doubt they lose their jobs for any of the moves you have indicated or it would have already happened. There still need to be more upgrades to this team & I think there will, I don't see Watson, Holden, Brassard or Brown returning for next season. There should also be a graduate or two next yr. You have to give them some credit they have improved their record from last yr to this yr, they are a much improved team & still in the playoff race with less than 20 games left in the season, that's a huge improvement.

Joseph has 14 assists thru 45 games.

Nick Paul's career high in a Sens uni was 15.

Personally I think Joseph is playing very well lately

 

[Golden_Jet]

That’s what it’s for, and why not.

 

[SlapJack]

Talbot was an all star last year and won his last 13 decisions.
Gustavsson looked like he'd regressed last year

Talbot has been underwhelming but adequate this year
Gustavsson on fire last few months

Is it a goalie thing or maybe what they have in front of them?

I liked Gustavsson and wouldn't have made that trade in a vacuum, but we needed experience. Goalies are really hard to predict and get value from

 

[bert]

It is a bad one. But it's also more of a bad one in hindsight. Gus has had an excellent year in Minnesota. But he was awful the year before and he's also a smaller goalie that doesn't fit the current NHL goalie prototype.

I had no issues at the time of the trade. I liked bringing in a vet goalie. Forsberg didn't have the pedigree to be a 50 game starter.

Might we be in a playoff position with Gus? Possibly yes. But we might be in one if Norris wasn't lost for the season and that wasn't predictable either.

I also think we got some insight into the team's thinking at the TDL when Dorion identified Sogaard as one of 3 untouchables. That was likely part of the thinking last summer

He's 6'2 he isnt small, fits the prototype. I explained his poor season, one of the many ways Murray had a negative impact on this organization. The team put him in a terrible position to succeed and was absolutely terrible in front of him. He never got to play for the team while they were playing well. The majority of his starts were when the team was brutal and everyone was out with covid. Taking the smallest possible sample size and deciding on the player and not looking at the entire body of work is not the way to evaluate a young goalie. I hated the trade at the time and I really hate it now. Talbot is not a positionally or technically sound goalie at all. He loses his net all the time. The pro scouting should have identified this. Guerin clearly did.

Just like its ok to have a bunch of good D men its ok to have a bunch of good goalie prospects too. I dont understand how you are comparing an injury to a player personel decision. Yes they likely are in a playoff spot if Norris is playing but that wasnt a decision by Dorion.

Dorion has had some great wins in regards to trades like Chychrun drafting Stutzle, Sanderson and Pinto, signing Giroux. Ill commend those decisions but if there is a poor one and thats what this thread is about its ok to identify it.

Talbot was an all star last year and won his last 13 decisions.
Gustavsson looked like he'd regressed last year

Talbot has been underwhelming but adequate this year
Gustavsson on fire last few months

Is it a goalie thing or maybe what they have in front of them?

I liked Gustavsson and wouldn't have made that trade in a vacuum, but we needed experience. Goalies are really hard to predict and get value from

Yes and no. Goalies can be voodoo from a mental stand point but you can still evaluate them from their physical performance. In regards to Gus and Talbot they are polar opposites when you actually watch them. Gustavsson is incredibly technically sound, he was always the best goalie in the organization from that stand point. Goalies take time to develop hockey sense, you need it through reps and consistency playing net. The thing I really didnt like about the deal was they had to trade Brown for futures due to money reasons. This could have been avoided if they had kept Gus and didnt add Talbots salary.

 

[Cosmix]

I did not like the trade of Gustavsson for Talbot, primarily due to their age difference with Talbot being age 35 and therefore nearing the end of his career. If Talbot was at least 5 years younger, I might have agreed with the trade.

 

[JD1]

He's 6'2 he isnt small, fits the prototype. I explained his poor season, one of the many ways Murray had a negative impact on this organization. The team put him in a terrible position to succeed and was absolutely terrible in front of him. He never got to play for the team while they were playing well. The majority of his starts were when the team was brutal and everyone was out with covid. Taking the smallest possible sample size and deciding on the player and not looking at the entire body of work is not the way to evaluate a young goalie. I hated the trade at the time and I really hate it now. Talbot is not a positionally or technically sound goalie at all. He loses his net all the time. The pro scouting should have identified this. Guerin clearly did.

Just like its ok to have a bunch of good D men its ok to have a bunch of good goalie prospects too. I dont understand how you are comparing an injury to a player personel decision. Yes they likely are in a playoff spot if Norris is playing but that wasnt a decision by Dorion.

Dorion has had some great wins in regards to trades like Chychrun drafting Stutzle, Sanderson and Pinto, signing Giroux. Ill commend those decisions but if there is a poor one and thats what this thread is about its ok to identify it.


Yes and no. Goalies can be voodoo from a mental stand point but you can still evaluate them from their physical performance. In regards to Gus and Talbot they are polar opposites when you actually watch them. Gustavsson is incredibly technically sound, he was always the best goalie in the organization from that stand point. Goalies take time to develop hockey sense, you need it through reps and consistency playing net. The thing I really didnt like about the deal was they had to trade Brown for futures due to money reasons. This could have been avoided if they had kept Gus and didnt add Talbots salary.

Ya, 6 foot 2 is on the small side by today's standards

I just didn't have an issue with the trade at the time. Grabbing a veteran goalie in a year where you were looking to leap forward is a pretty standard play.

And on Guerin's end, his biggest issue cap.

 

[Micklebot]

Ya, 6 foot 2 is on the small side by today's standards

I just didn't have an issue with the trade at the time. Grabbing a veteran goalie in a year where you were looking to leap forward is a pretty standard play.

And on Guerin's end, his biggest issue cap.

Average goalie is 6'3, Kevin Woodley also called 6'3 the sweet spot for goalie height, so I guess it's slightly on the small size, certainly not to the degree that you'd be concerned about it though.

 

[JD1]

Average goalie is 6'3, Kevin Woodley also called 6'3 the sweet spot for goalie height, so I guess it's slightly on the small size, certainly not to the degree that you'd be concerned about it though.

Sure, and 6 foot 2 is less than that.

There's lots of data on trends and it's been trending higher for the past 15 years.

I just didn't think it was that surprising a trade. And Dorion provided insight into org thinking by recently saying Sogaard was untouchable. Seems like Gus was an asset where the internal thinking was we have better assets.

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, and 6 foot 2 is less than that.

There's lots of data on trends and it's been trending higher for the past 15 years.

I just didn't think it was that surprising a trade. And Dorion provided insight into org thinking by recently saying Sogaard was untouchable. Seems like Gus was an asset where the internal thinking was we have better assets.

Sure, if you're going to be pedantic about it, it's technically on the smaller size, but my point was that it's not so much that you'd be concerned about it, you certainly wouldn't think of 6'2 as undersized. I also mentioned to Woodley quote since there are advantages and disadvantages to being bigger in net,

The team clearly chose Sogaard over Gus, personally I think it was a bit early to make that call, but once you've made that decision moving Gus makes sense if you can get a solid return. Talbot was an all star last year, they pulled the trigger since they wanted this season to be a stepping stone to playoffs. I can respect that, even if it's not what I'd have done,

I said it before, my bigger concern was with the Forsberg extension, not that it was bad in a vacuum but to me that's the deal you sign if you think Forsberg can be the transition goalie, clearly they don't see him in that light as they traded for Talbot.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

O/U on the next Talbot contract?

 

[Xspyrit]

Even if we overpaid Paul or had him on more term, he's better than both Joseph and Motte lol. Sure he isn't scoring at an unrealistic pace, but he's defensively sound and would be such an awesome player on our bottom 6.

He's the type of player you need to carry your bottom-6

Him and Brown would have been perfect. Pinto would have been eased in, same for Greig next year and all the other rookies trying to establish themselves

I don't think people are aware of the importance of a good bottom-6 and how it can tremendously help both your Top-6 and D-squad

It's funny to read that some think it has anything to do with "points"

PD traded a young goalie who was not having a great yr in Belleville for Talbot who was an all-star goalie the yr before, a legitimate NHL goalie who did have a great yr. Was it a mistake, maybe but there's that saying that you have to give to get & who knows how Gus would have played here in front of this team this yr. They also had Sogaard who the org is high on & is proving could be a good future goalie, I believe he is one of your favourite goalies in the org. I like Merilainen another good goalie in the org & Mandolese is also doing alright although Belleville as a whole has not been a very good team this yr.

This is the nature of sport sometimes your best players get hurt, missing Norris has really hurt & Formenton off to Europe has also hurt & Connor Brown has missed most of this season with injury for Washington. I liked Paul & didn't want him traded & am not a fan of Joseph because of his lack of offence, but he seems to have a lot of energy & skates fast. This is also the nature of sports that you will likely make as many bad trades as you make good ones, at some point you hope to put a team together that can go all the way.

It seems that PD has put together a team this yr although much later than most of us would have liked that mid-way through March is still in the playoff race. Outside this board I think most of the media, pundits & fans give him credit for where this team is right now & to DJ for having them in the race this late in the season. I think both PD & DJ will be judged on next yr & how the team does then, they have to make the playoffs & hopefully make some noise. I doubt they lose their jobs for any of the moves you have indicated or it would have already happened. There still need to be more upgrades to this team & I think there will, I don't see Watson, Holden, Brassard or Brown returning for next season. There should also be a graduate or two next yr. You have to give them some credit they have improved their record from last yr to this yr, they are a much improved team & still in the playoff race with less than 20 games left in the season, that's a huge improvement.

If that's how the evaluation went, it's exactly why we have such a BIG problem in pro scouting and why I have been very vocal about this. Matt Murray is better than Talbot in ability but can't stay healthy to save his life, I'm actually shocked that he hasn't been LTIRed yet. Talbot is good but nothing special plus he has been injury prone this season too. Gustavsson ability is also much higher than Talbot. It was easy to see if they just sent paid scouts to watch the games.

Agree with most of the rest but when you want to contend, you can't afford to "make as many bad trades as you make good ones". Do you think Julien Brisebois has done a lot of "bad trades"?

It's not because we don't know how Gus would have done this year that you trade him for a much older, more expensive and lesser in ability goalie. This is a variation of the Zibanejad for Brassard trade. At least we didn't add a 2nd this time!

Outsiders and medias don't know much, for people who have been following this team closely for decades, we know what cards Dorion had in his hands when it started. I have witnessed all the big and littles mistakes that I have criticized IN ADVANCE and always said that it would BITE US IN THE ASS, and it did, each and every time. This year, it was clearly the bottom-6 that is way too under NHL average, probably the worst in the NHL.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He's the type of player you need to carry your bottom-6

Him and Brown would have been perfect. Pinto would have been eased in, same for Greig next year and all the other rookies trying to establish themselves

I don't think people are aware of the importance of a good bottom-6 and how it can tremendously help both your Top-6 and D-squad

It's funny to read that some think it has anything to do with "points"



If that's how the evaluation went, it's exactly why we have such a BIG problem in pro scouting and why I have been very vocal about this. Matt Murray is better than Talbot in ability but can't stay healthy to save his life, I'm actually shocked that he hasn't been LTIRed yet. Talbot is good but nothing special plus he has been injury prone this season too. Gustavsson ability is also much higher than Talbot. It was easy to see if they just sent paid scouts to watch the games.

Agree with most of the rest but when you want to contend, you can't afford to "make as many bad trades as you make good ones". Do you think Julien Brisebois has done a lot of "bad trades"?

It's not because we don't know how Gus would have done this year that you trade him for a much older, more expensive and lesser in ability goalie. This is a variation of the Zibanejad for Brassard trade. At least we didn't add a 2nd this time!

Outsiders and medias don't know much, for people who have been following this team closely for decades, we know what cards Dorion had in his hands when it started. I have witnessed all the big and littles mistakes that I have criticized IN ADVANCE and always said that it would BITE US IN THE ASS, and it did, each and every time. This year, it was clearly the bottom-6 that is way too under NHL average, probably the worst in the NHL.

Add as much lipstick as you want on Gus , he was not good last year. Just had to watch the games to see that.