Dorion's biggest mistake in 2022...

[Beech]

One thing I'll mention wrt expectations leading in to the season -- I really thought we'd be better just because of addition by subtraction.

Getting rid of a number of deadwood players that were just clearly not NHL caliber and replacing them with harder working young guys -- eg Matt Murray, Chris Tierney, Josh Brown, Zach Sanford.

Honestly believed those guys were weighing us down just by their presence.

The core of the team did not really change
1) the goal tending has not improved now in 4-5 years
2) the defense gained Sanderson, which is huge. But saw Ham age, Zub injured, Ziets age. Bran stagnate, Holden stagnate. Chabot has at periods stagnated.
3) the forward group lost an entire 3rd line.

A great deal has hinged on Giroux and Debrincat. A 35 year old and a 5' 7" guy who may have been living off of P. Kane!!

So in the end, this giant step forward that we assumed the forwards would take, kinda became a smaller step forward. Meanwhile issues 1, 2 and 3 resulted in a zero net step one way or the other. End result; a minor step forward..

so a 73 point 2021/2022 will be a 78-83 point season.

There are still giant holes. This rebuild is in my opinion stalled. I am now not sure how they will move forward.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Not getting a top 4 D or not firing DJ by November.

Those are the biggest. Missing out on Marino was significant. Seemed perfect. Should have paid bit extra, no doubt.

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Honestly, there's not much left to say. It's pretty much been covered. Losing Brown really hurt our bottom 6 and he's the exact type of player we're lacking right now. He was clearly moved to free up cap for a dman. I don't fault Dorion too much for the trade. The 2nd is still good to have, whether we trade it or use it.

Gus for Talbot is a trade I still make at the time. 90% of us loved it. Gus clearly struggled with us and needed a fresh start and we got a veteran, stable goalie (so we thought).

Dumping Murray was a W.

Paul for Joseph was the right move. The extension, not so much.

Debrincat was an amazing trade. How can anyone hate us trading for a 25 year old superstar for a 7th overall pick in a weak draft?? He has a career low shooting % and still has 41 points in 50 games and has shown us he has a playmaking side to him.

Giroux is Giroux and Dorion doesn't get credit for that. Jim Bob Joe as GM would of been able to sign him.

Formenton being a potential scum bag hurt us. Motte was an acceptable replacement at the time.

I'm not a DJ fan, but firing him wasn't the move with new ownership clearly coming into the picture this off season. Would Capuano/Payne been any different? Because it wouldn't of been someone from the outside. Let the new owners decide if they're going to clean house.

 

[coladin]

No complaints, generally, as I try and think of the context of the timing of the trade.

Obviously Gus looks amazing (again), but I personally would not have risked Gus not returning to form with the investments made up front. I will take the All-Star Talbot.

Losing Formenton and Brown, in hindsight, is questionable to me. At the time, he seemed priced out , especially on the 3rd line. Formenton also not here was something that Dorion should have got ahead of and planned better for it.

 

[Laphroaig]

Not acquiring Chychrun is my biggest disappointment. He would have immediately established himself as our best defenseman. I don't care that he shoots left and I would have been happy to include Pinto in the deal if that's what it took.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Not topping the weak offer from the Devils to acquire Marino was very disappointing.

Especially since a reason Garrioch gave as to why we weren't more interested was his contract.

I mean in what world is a 4.4M x 5YRs deal for a 25YR old top 4 RD a bad contract?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Perspective I guess, as I see it if they wouldn't have made some pretty big mistakes in a number of games they may have won those & would be much further ahead. And those mistakes were made by everybody, the players, the goaltending & the coaches at times. But hockey is a game of mistakes & capitalizing when they occur, the opposition seems to always capitalize on our mistakes while our team is still learning. The season was not over in Dec nor is it over now, it's over when it's over & we're not there yet, although we are close.

I understand your disappointment, but don't let that cloud the fatc that they have a very good young core that is only going to get better & they will clear out a few more unproductive players at the end of this yr & hopefully improve & upgrade from them. If they can improve their defence over the summer that might be enough to push them a little further & as they get more mature & experienced that will improve them as well. I think the future is bright for this franchise.

There's plenty to be happy about in our situation. There's also some things that could be complained about reasonably. There's some hyperbole mixed in on both. None of that should not validate those wanting a different person in the GM chair tasked with going further, it's a very reasonable position.

Personally, I think the team as of today is close to where it should be based on the roster, but I do think the last couple seasons have been a bit of a lost opportunity with a lot of the additions falling flat and/or a hole not being able to be addressed that has led to us not improving us as much as I think the potential available was.

 

[aragorn]

There's plenty to be happy about in our situation. There's also some things that could be complained about reasonably. There's some hyperbole mixed in on both. None of that should not validate those wanting a different person in the GM chair tasked with going further, it's a very reasonable position.

Personally, I think the team as of today is close to where it should be based on the roster, but I do think the last couple seasons have been a bit of a lost opportunity with a lot of the additions falling flat and/or a hole not being able to be addressed that has led to us not improving us as much as I think the potential available was.

I agree, I'm just not sure what new ownership & management will do.

 

[aragorn]

I trust that the core is good but a good core isn't enough, we need good coaching and good management to supplement it.

I'm not talking about a Cup here, just be a competitive playoff team for a while, that's all I want and I think it is a reasonable expectation.

Hard to think that expectation will be met with how things are currently set-up. Thankfully new ownership is around the bend so there is hope but we can't expect a new front office to fire on all cylinders right away either.

The tear down was succesful, at least Dorion didn't manage to screw up the easy part. We've been treading water since then, something has got to give; things don't improve on their own.

I'm not as sure as some on here what new ownership will do, whether they clean house which is possible or they look at the youth & their potential & keep the management as is. I'm not sure what they will do given IMO the team is trending in the right direction.

 

[bicboi64]

If I had to pick a single move, I'd go with the Talbot trade.

The price for Cat was fair, it solidified our top 6. Using Brown to clear up space for anyone (Giroux/Talbot) didn't make any sense. Our issue was defense at that point. If Dorion wanted to move Gus or Brown, fine, but get another defender instead of banking on Hamonic being the answer. We extended Forsberg, only to acquire a goalie like Talbot who said he didn't want to be playing in a 1a/b situation, which is why him and Minnesota had a falling out. Also, trading Brown while not having Formenton signed is poor foresight.

Easier answer for me is not firing DJ.

 

[aragorn]

I just don't think new owners will care what happened in the past & only look at the team now & it's potential. Then decide whether this management group can take this team any further or whether they need new management to move the team to another level, playoffs & beyond.

 

[Tuna99]

Biggest mistake still is easily his haircut.

Its a long list, but when you sit back and just look at the hair, it all comes together and makes sense. Not enough to keep the thoughts warm, to much to be sexy.

 

[Micklebot]

Should have fired the coach in the summer when all those experienced coaches were available.

The only hang up with that is when Dorion inevitably gets canned under new ownership, so could the coaching hire. The fact that coaches know that could come might have meant qualified candidates would opt out,

In a world where ownership was sorted out last Jun, I'd be right there with you, but without that roster moves seem like the best use of the GMs very limited time.

 

[Karl Prime]

Not Dan Marino would have been a huge addition to the team. Chabot-Zub and Sanderson-Marino is a legit great top 4, and then Hamonic would get pushed down with Brannstrom.

- I was lukewarm re: the White buyout, as I thought we could just keep him and have some depth and versatility in our forward lineup. Seems that he hasn't exactly shined with Florida, so I'm happy to praise Dorion for this move.

It's so strange, he started off well with 11 points in 18 games at only 12 minutes a game but only has 2 points in his last 24. Either he got hurt and is playing through it or he got in Maurice's doghouse because I remember in October his start was a feel good story (at least for Florida).

 

[aragorn]

The only hang up with that is when Dorion inevitably gets canned under new ownership, so could the coaching hire. The fact that coaches know that could come might have meant qualified candidates would opt out,

In a world where ownership was sorted out last Jun, I'd be right there with you, but without that roster moves seem like the best use of the GMs very limited time.

The summer of Pierre is quite different than the winter of Pierre.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I just don't think new owners will care what happened in the past & only look at the team now & it's potential. Then decide whether this management group can take this team any further or whether they need new management to move the team to another level, playoffs & beyond.

But what better way is there to predict future job performance than to analyze their past? Their assessment of what he can do going forward would only be able to be drawn from what he has done already.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I don’t nessasarily get the Gustavsson revisionist history.

He’s a young solid goalie - but behind this defence he would be putting up similar numbers to Talbot and Forsberg.

 

[bert]

He's been in the AHL most of the year. I don't think is value was that high.

Basically I disagree but it's just an opinion so I respect yours.

That's the past tence though. He had already played 120 games.

 

[bert]

I trust that the core is good but a good core isn't enough, we need good coaching and good management to supplement it.

I'm not talking about a Cup here, just be a competitive playoff team for a while, that's all I want and I think it is a reasonable expectation.

Hard to think that expectation will be met with how things are currently set-up. Thankfully new ownership is around the bend so there is hope but we can't expect a new front office to fire on all cylinders right away either.

The tear down was succesful, at least Dorion didn't manage to screw up the easy part. We've been treading water since then, something has got to give; things don't improve on their own.

The cores 20-26 right now. The two best players are 21. They aren't remotely close enough to their primes to know if it's good enough or not.

I really think Formenton is and will continue to be a massive loss for this team. He is literally exactly the type of player they are missing and he was only getting better.

 

[CorrectOpinion]

Biggest mistake is his sniveling personality

 

[swiftwin]

Giroux is Giroux and Dorion doesn't get credit for that. Jim Bob Joe as GM would of been able to sign him.

If y'all are going to criticize Dorion for Duchene, Stone and others not wanting to extend here, you have to give him credit for Giroux liking Brady and the core enough to want to sign here. That double standard is ridiculous.

 

[LevelingSolo]

It's his loyalty to DJ for me, unless he wasn't allowed to play the fire the coach card

 

[Do Make Say Think]

If y'all are going to criticize Dorion for Duchene, Stone and others not wanting to extend here, you have to give him credit for Giroux liking Brady and the core enough to want to sign here. That double standard is ridiculous.

Dorion had next to nothing to do with regards to Brady.

All he did was tank and got very lucky Montreal management was run by headless chickens.

 

[swiftwin]

Dorion had next to nothing to do with regards to Brady.

All he did was tank and got very lucky Montreal management was run by headless chickens.

That's funny. I definitely remember pages and pages of people shitting on Dorion for picking Tkachuk instead of Zadina because it was stupid to pick Tkachuk because of his "intangibles". But now today, Claude f***ing Giroux signs here as a free agent, specifically citing Tkachuk's intangibles as a reason to want to sign here, and somehow Dorion had nothing to do with that? That's rich.

 

[Ouroboros]

That's funny. I definitely remember pages and pages of people shitting on Dorion for picking Tkachuk instead of Zadina because it was stupid to pick Tkachuk because of his "intangibles". But now today, Claude f***ing Giroux signs here as a free agent, specifically citing Tkachuk's intangibles as a reason to want to sign here, and somehow Dorion had nothing to do with that? That's rich.

It's a little know-fact that Claude Giroux is also really high on Filip Zadina's intangibles so it would have worked out regardless.