Does Marner get Boo’d?

[PromisedLand]

I dont think you will see this guy falling for the "he cares too much" bull@$$^ while Marner is floating around open spaces. He cares too much, but doesnt put the time in the gym and avoids all physical play? Yeah, a former NHL enforcer isnt gonna be sympathetic. And Berube isnt gonna care about his feelings if he needs to bench him either. And it will be longer than one shift.

My bet is Marner will actually start playing in the physical areas as a result too.

its a contract year so either he gets with the program or he takes a massive AAV hit on his contract

I really hope Treliving is in Berube's ears, and forces Berube to play marner teh F away from Matthews and drive his own line

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hey Chat GPT, please interpret what coach Berube means by this statement.


ChatGPT:

View attachment 906809

One can hope. I've kind of resigned myself to the idea that Marner will be resigned but who knows? That quote does give me some hope and while it's probably wise to not read too much into a single quote, he's not a "Berube type" of player, that's for damn sure.

 

[notbias]

Oh, I want to play this game.

Marner fans love to point to stats when they favor Marner, but avoid applying the same standard when they don’t.
For example:
2024:

• Domi primary assists (5v5): 1.43/60
• Marner primary assists (5v5): 1.13/60
• Domi 5v5 points: 2.73/60
• Marner 5v5 points: 2.68/60

So by that logic, Domi isn’t just a better playmaker than Marner, but a better scorer too? Please advise.
A better way to assess Marner’s playoff value is to actually watch the goals and see who the real play driver is versus who’s riding coattails. Meghan Chayka’s research shows play drivers don’t always get the primary assist, and sometimes aren’t even credited for a point. I’ve done this before for goals in the playoffs and more often than not, Marner isn’t the key driver.

Why are you using primary assists and then all points (there is no need to answer, I know why)

5v5 primary points/60:

Matthews: 2.58
Marner: 2.02
Robertson: 1.93
Nylander: 1.90
Domi: 1.89

 

[Hellcat]

You cherry picked the one year in his career where got more than one single vote, I wonder why you would do such a thing? Maybe that year is impressive by your standards but the winner that year had a vote total of 1951 and Marner's total of 15 is less than 1% of that.

So in his best year, Marner still had less than 1% of the votes the winner had. If you think that's worthy of the "elite" label then good for you. Considering that even in that best year of his, he was 100 times closer to the worst player in the league than he was to the guy that won the Hart, I'll just say that you and I have different ideas of what "elite" means.

Because it was the most recent year when he got Hart votes. Not Rocket Science to figure that one out ...... for most people. Like they say it's just an honor to be nominated.... stop your frothing... Marner is good... really good.

That poll just keeps growing in the "No fans will not boo Marner" ... clearly the rational, decent common sense fans have spoken, 62% in their favour, this debate is over...

 

[diceman934]

The mental gymnastics used to attack Marner on here is beyond ridiculous. He is an elite player period. He has more points in the playoffs then any other player on the team.

He will be awesome again this year and a good coach will keep him away from the best shut down players come playoffs.

 

[thusk]

Oh, I want to play this game.

Marner fans love to point to stats when they favor Marner, but avoid applying the same standard when they don’t.
For example:
2024:

• Domi primary assists (5v5): 1.43/60
• Marner primary assists (5v5): 1.13/60
• Domi 5v5 points: 2.73/60
• Marner 5v5 points: 2.68/60

So by that logic, Domi isn’t just a better playmaker than Marner, but a better scorer too? Please advise.
A better way to assess Marner’s playoff value is to actually watch the goals and see who the real play driver is versus who’s riding coattails. Meghan Chayka’s research shows play drivers don’t always get the primary assist, and sometimes aren’t even credited for a point. I’ve done this before for goals in the playoffs and more often than not, Marner isn’t the key driver.

Domi had been fantastic at 5v5 last year

 

[thewave]

The mental gymnastics used to attack Marner on here is beyond ridiculous. He is an elite player period. He has more points in the playoffs then any other player on the team.

He will be awesome again this year and a good coach will keep him away from the best shut down players come playoffs.

I asked AI "All things considered including playoff performances. Who would you choose William Nylander or Mitch Marner?"

A: Conclusion

Considering all aspects—regular-season performance where Marner leads in total points but with Nylander showing impressive goal-scoring ability; playoff performances where Nylander outshines Marner; along with their respective impacts on team dynamics—one could argue that William Nylander’s recent playoff performances give him an edge over Mitch Marner when it comes to choosing between these two talented players.

Thus, based on comprehensive analysis:

William Nylander would be my choice over Mitch Marner considering all factors including playoff performance.



So now considering a multi billion dollar quantum computer weighed in on the debate. How can MM even ask for a raise?

Look at this one!

Between the following players. Mitch Marner, William Nylander, Auston Matthews. Who offers the best performance and results for every dollar
spent?



Step 4: Overall Contribution to Team Success

While individual statistics are important, it’s also essential to consider how these players contribute to their team’s overall success. This includes playoff performance and leadership roles within the team context.

In recent seasons:

All three players have been crucial in leading the Toronto Maple Leafs to playoff appearances.
However, Matthews is often seen as the primary goal-scorer and offensive leader.
Marner’s playmaking ability significantly contributes to his high assist totals.
Conclusion

Based on the analysis of salary versus performance metrics:

Mitch Marner costs approximately $110K per point.
William Nylander costs about $80K per point.
Auston Matthews costs roughly $137K per point.
Given this data:

The player who offers the best performance for every dollar spent is William Nylander.

 

[notbias]

I asked AI "All things considered including playoff performances. Who would you choose William Nylander or Mitch Marner?"

A: Conclusion

Considering all aspects—regular-season performance where Marner leads in total points but with Nylander showing impressive goal-scoring ability; playoff performances where Nylander outshines Marner; along with their respective impacts on team dynamics—one could argue that William Nylander’s recent playoff performances give him an edge over Mitch Marner when it comes to choosing between these two talented players.

Thus, based on comprehensive analysis:

William Nylander would be my choice over Mitch Marner considering all factors including playoff performance.



So now considering a multi billion dollar quantum computer weighed in on the debate. How can MM even ask for a raise?

Look at this one!

Between the following players. Mitch Marner, William Nylander, Auston Matthews. Who offers the best performance and results for every dollar
spent?



Step 4: Overall Contribution to Team Success

While individual statistics are important, it’s also essential to consider how these players contribute to their team’s overall success. This includes playoff performance and leadership roles within the team context.

In recent seasons:

All three players have been crucial in leading the Toronto Maple Leafs to playoff appearances.
However, Matthews is often seen as the primary goal-scorer and offensive leader.
Marner’s playmaking ability significantly contributes to his high assist totals.
Conclusion

Based on the analysis of salary versus performance metrics:

Mitch Marner costs approximately $110K per point.
William Nylander costs about $80K per point.
Auston Matthews costs roughly $137K per point.
Given this data:

The player who offers the best performance for every dollar spent is William Nylander.

That's cool, I asked AI the same thing and it said.

"why would you ask me such a dumb question?"

 

[HamiltonNHL]

One can hope. I've kind of resigned myself to the idea that Marner will be resigned but who knows?

I don’t think he will be.

As a GM, I’d want the cap flexibility by ditching his AAV.

No team will win anything with 2 RW > 10AAV.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because it was the most recent year when he got Hart votes. Not Rocket Science to figure that one out ...... for most people. Like they say it's just an honor to be nominated.... stop your frothing... Marner is good... really good.

That poll just keeps growing in the "No fans will not boo Marner" ... clearly the rational, decent common sense fans have spoken, 62% in their favour, this debate is over...

Be honest now, you picked that year because that was the only time he got "votes" - in the other seven years of his career, he got a grand total of one (5th place) vote getting no votes whatsoever the other six years. Bragging about a vote total that was less than 1% of what the winner got is hilarious as it is but yes, bragging about the years where he got no votes at all would have been even funnier so yes, you chose "wisely".

And BTW, he wasn't "nominated". Votes and nominations are completely different things, I hope that helps.

The mental gymnastics used to attack Marner on here is beyond ridiculous. He is an elite player period. He has more points in the playoffs then any other player on the team.

He will be awesome again this year and a good coach will keep him away from the best shut down players come playoffs.

Regular season or playoffs?

 

[notDatsyuk]

The mental gymnastics used to attack Marner on here is beyond ridiculous. He is an elite player period. He has more points in the playoffs then any other player on the team.

He will be awesome again this year and a good coach will keep him away from the best shut down players come playoffs.

The mental gymnastics used to defend Marner on here is beyond ridiculous. He is a very good player period. At 5v5 per 60 he is third in points in the playoffs (behind both Nylander and Matthews) over the last 5 years.

He will be good again this regular season and if the coach can shelter him he may be ok in the playoffs.

 

[Hellcat]

Be honest now, you picked that year because that was the only time he got "votes" - in the other seven years of his career, he got a grand total of one (5th place) vote getting no votes whatsoever the other six years. Bragging about a vote total that was less than 1% of what the winner got is hilarious as it is but yes, bragging about the years where he got no votes at all would have been even funnier so yes, you chose "wisely".

And BTW, he wasn't "nominated". Votes and nominations are completely different things, I hope that helps.


Regular season or playoffs?

Sorry dude you misinterpreted the situation, you are simply wrong.

 

[rumman]

I asked AI "All things considered including playoff performances. Who would you choose William Nylander or Mitch Marner?"

A: Conclusion

Considering all aspects—regular-season performance where Marner leads in total points but with Nylander showing impressive goal-scoring ability; playoff performances where Nylander outshines Marner; along with their respective impacts on team dynamics—one could argue that William Nylander’s recent playoff performances give him an edge over Mitch Marner when it comes to choosing between these two talented players.

Thus, based on comprehensive analysis:

William Nylander would be my choice over Mitch Marner considering all factors including playoff performance.



So now considering a multi billion dollar quantum computer weighed in on the debate. How can MM even ask for a raise?

Look at this one!

Between the following players. Mitch Marner, William Nylander, Auston Matthews. Who offers the best performance and results for every dollar
spent?



Step 4: Overall Contribution to Team Success

While individual statistics are important, it’s also essential to consider how these players contribute to their team’s overall success. This includes playoff performance and leadership roles within the team context.

In recent seasons:

All three players have been crucial in leading the Toronto Maple Leafs to playoff appearances.
However, Matthews is often seen as the primary goal-scorer and offensive leader.
Marner’s playmaking ability significantly contributes to his high assist totals.
Conclusion

Based on the analysis of salary versus performance metrics:

Mitch Marner costs approximately $110K per point.
William Nylander costs about $80K per point.
Auston Matthews costs roughly $137K per point.
Given this data:

The player who offers the best performance for every dollar spent is William Nylander.

Perspective, and I don’t even like Styles……..

 

[thusk]

The mental gymnastics used to defend Marner on here is beyond ridiculous. He is a very good player period. At 5v5 per 60 he is third in points in the playoffs (behind both Nylander and Matthews) over the last 5 years.

He will be good again this regular season and if the coach can shelter him he may be ok in the playoffs.

The goal in playoff if people didn't realize it, its to score more goal or allowed less goal.

wich choice is the best

1-
- a guy who played 80% against opposite TOP 6 who finished with 24 goal for vs 15 goal against last 5.
-number of goal vs opp top 6 last 3( dont have those number before): 11 GF-8 GA
- number of goal against opposite bottom 6 : 9 GF-3GA
or
2- the guy who played 40 to 50% of the time against opposite BOTTOM 6 but finishing with 19 goal for and 24 against but scored some clutche goal
- number of goal vs opposite top 6 : 5GF-12 GA
-number of goal vs bottom 6 7 GF-2GA

I can tell you if you've got a top 6 line struggling to play against opposite top 6, you're better to have a pretty great 3rd line and/or special team. Even the 54 minutes he played with Matthews ( without marner) he was struggling against opposite top 6...

Thats why i think leafs should play with matthews marner and nylander on 3 different line to use the strenght of everyone, its the only way leafs could be able to change the script

 

[notDatsyuk]

The goal in playoff if people didn't realize it, its to score more goal or allowed less goal.

wich choice is the best

1-
- a guy who played 80% against opposite TOP 6 who finished with 24 goal for vs 15 goal against last 5.
-number of goal vs opp top 6 last 3( dont have those number before): 11 GF-8 GA
- number of goal against opposite bottom 6 : 9 GF-3GA
or
2- the guy who played 40 to 50% of the time against opposite BOTTOM 6 but finishing with 19 goal for and 24 against but scored some clutche goal
- number of goal vs opposite top 6 : 5GF-12 GA
-number of goal vs bottom 6 7 GF-2GA

I can tell you if you've got a top 6 line struggling to play against opposite top 6, you're better to have a pretty great 3rd line and/or special team. Even the 54 minutes he played with Matthews ( without marner) he was struggling against opposite top 6...

Thats why i think leafs should play with matthews marner and nylander on 3 different line to use the strenght of everyone, its the only way leafs could be able to change the script

The mental gymnastics you go through to show how much you hate Nylander is impressive.

But I do agree with your conclusion. I think Matthews at 1C, Nylander at 2C and Marner on Tavares' wing sounds about right.

 

[Antropovsky]

if you're considerating 3 year ago like too far away of right now, We can take only last 2 playoff to have at least more than 7 game

p/60
marner 1,84
matthews 1,73
nylander 1,72

primary pts
Marner 1,84
matthews 1,51
Nylander 1,21

playing 80% against top 6 for marner
73% for Matthews
61% for Nylander

vs last 3
p/60
matthews 2,36
marner 2,18
Nylander 1,66

primary pts
marner 2,02
matthews 1,73
Nylander 1,10

How much of a play driver was Marner on this playoff primary assist on Kampfs goal:




Does Buntings first playoff goal happen without the incredible hit/forecheck by Matthews and the equally tip pass he makes while falling after the hit? Which Marner gets a primary assist for?:

 

[francis246]

How much of a play driver was Marner on this playoff primary assist?

If he doesn’t get the puck out Kampf doesn’t score. What’s your point?

You’re being facetious right now. A primary assist is a primary assist. They aren’t all going to look pretty. And posts like these do come across as just being a hater. You’re nitpicking a good play by Marner to get the the puck cleared and a great 50/50 effort by Kampf to finish off the play for what reason?

 

[Antropovsky]

If he doesn’t get the puck out Kampf doesn’t score. What’s your point?

You’re being facetious right now. A primary assist is a primary assist. They aren’t all going to look pretty.

Just reiterating that Marners points arenr "play driver" points.

The two videos I posted show this.

The Bunting goal, does not happen without the ELITE play of Matthews.

Kampf... is a lucky bounce on what was otherwise a weak clear by Marner. However, Marner got a primary assist.

Even this play below.. Marner does nothing special. He does what any NHL player can do and does do. Marner gains the line and makes a basic lateral pass to Matthews. We see why Matthews has a tougher time in playoffs. Tampa is all cheating to him. However, again an elite decision and play by Matthews to touch pass to Reilly. Point to Marner for being on a line with an incredible hockey player:

 

[Antropovsky]

Just reiterating that Marners points arenr "play driver" points.

The two videos I posted show this.

The Bunting goal, does not happen without the ELITE play of Matthews.

Kampf... is a lucky bounce on what was otherwise a weak clear by Marner. However, Marner got a primary assist.

Even this play below.. Marner does nothing special. He does what any NHL player can do and does do. Marner gains the line and makes a basic lateral pass to Matthews. We see why Matthews has a tougher time in playoffs. Tampa is all cheating to him. However, again an elite decision and play by Matthews to touch pass to Reilly. Point to Marner for being on a line with an incredible hockey player:

Heres another assist for Marner and point just because he plays with Matthews:

Also..shout out to Holl for making the incredible shot for rebound pass!

 

[Antropovsky]

Heres another assist for Marner and point just because he plays with Matthews:

Also..shout out to Holl for making the incredible shot for rebound pass!

How about the absolutely dazzling sequence by Matthews on the game 5 goal vs Tampa. The backcheck, the hit to dislodge the puck, the spinning touch pass..while doing a 180 and going directly back into offense mode and scores. Whose the beneficiary? Marner who did nothing but stand at center and wait for a odd man rush pass. Credit to Bunting too for his part of the backcheck.

 

[nsleaf]

The obsession with Marner is getting wierd.

 

[francis246]

Just reiterating that Marners points arenr "play driver" points.

The two videos I posted show this.

The Bunting goal, does not happen without the ELITE play of Matthews.

Kampf... is a lucky bounce on what was otherwise a weak clear by Marner. However, Marner got a primary assist.

Even this play below.. Marner does nothing special. He does what any NHL player can do and does do. Marner gains the line and makes a basic lateral pass to Matthews. We see why Matthews has a tougher time in playoffs. Tampa is all cheating to him. However, again an elite decision and play by Matthews to touch pass to Reilly. Point to Marner for being on a line with an incredible hockey player:

Who cares if he does something “special”on the play? Since when is a special play now a factor in anything. You could go through almost every NHL players videos and find points where they make a simple play or chip it in and their teammate scores.

I rest my case, you going this hard to dissect (and now qualitatively quantify) every Marner point unprovoked is f***ing hilarious cause it’s not that serious and again just comes across as a little jealous, envious and hater-ish.

 

[thusk]

How much of a play driver was Marner on this playoff primary assist on Kampfs goal:




Does Buntings first playoff goal happen without the incredible hit/forecheck by Matthews and the equally tip pass he makes while falling after the hit? Which Marner gets a primary assist for?:

On Kampf goal it was a free pass for sure but started with a good defensive play in pk who gave a shot to toronto to clear it and Hedman tried a risky play and missed it.

On bunting goal its starting with marner making a great play with his skate to avoid the icing and they forechecking at 2 and withdraw every option tampa d had... It's kind of play whe didn't saw enough under keefe and exactly why i think it would be different with Berube with a more agressive forecheck at 2 or 3.

and dont know where the problem are on those 2 goal?!?!]

Just reiterating that Marners points arenr "play driver" points.

The two videos I posted show this.

The Bunting goal, does not happen without the ELITE play of Matthews.

Kampf... is a lucky bounce on what was otherwise a weak clear by Marner. However, Marner got a primary assist.

Even this play below.. Marner does nothing special. He does what any NHL player can do and does do. Marner gains the line and makes a basic lateral pass to Matthews. We see why Matthews has a tougher time in playoffs. Tampa is all cheating to him. However, again an elite decision and play by Matthews to touch pass to Reilly. Point to Marner for being on a line with an incredible hockey player:

again a other video of a great play of marner with a backend lifted pass right on matthews stick between 2 tampa defender. kind of play than basically 99% of nhl player would miss...

How about the absolutely dazzling sequence by Matthews on the game 5 goal vs Tampa. The backcheck, the hit to dislodge the puck, the spinning touch pass..while doing a 180 and going directly back into offense mode and scores. Whose the beneficiary? Marner who did nothing but stand at center and wait for a odd man rush pass. Credit to Bunting too for his part of the backcheck.

again marner was playing his positionnal coverage in neutral zone and yes matthews did a great play but marner find a way to pass it to matthews on a 100% intentionnal play. The fact Matrhews did a great play doesn't mean Marner didn't... You will rarely score a goal with only 1 good play...

The funny thing is from the 5 video you just posted, 4 was great play by him and the last 1 was like one of his 2 secondary assist last 5 year in playoff...

 

[Antropovsky]

On Kampf goal it was a free pass for sure but started with a good defensive play in pk who gave a shot to toronto to clear it and Hedman tried a risky play and missed it.

On bunting goal its starting with marner making a great play with his skate to avoid the icing and they forechecking at 2 and withdraw every option tampa d had... It's kind of play whe didn't saw enough under keefe and exactly why i think it would be different with Berube with a more agressive forecheck at 2 or 3.

and dont know where the problem are on those 2 goal?!?!]



again a other video of a great play of marner with a backend lifted pass right on matthews stick between 2 tampa defender. kind of play than basically 99% of nhl player would miss...


again marner was playing his positionnal coverage in neutral zone and yes matthews did a great play but marner find a way to pass it to matthews on a 100% intentionnal play. The fact Matrhews did a great play doesn't mean Marner didn't... You will rarely score a goal with only 1 good play...

The funny thing is from the 5 video you just posted, 4 was great play by him and the last 1 was like one of his 2 secondary assist last 5 year in playoff...

Thanks for taking the time to watch the videos.

Redirecting a puck with your skate for a dump in, is a "great play"?

A short backhand lift pass is a basic NHL player pass. These are the best players in the world. That is a basic NHL play fot a top 9 forward.

Marner supporters are always giving Marner way too much credit for passes most NHL players can make. The difference being Marner plays with elite players who finish and so they end up on highlight reals.

Here is an example... this is a 3, 000,000 (Domi) and a $800,000 (Robertson) player making very quick passes in tight for a Marner season goal:



I can show you more excellent passes from 4th liners that Matthews finished in the season.

The point is, without Matthews incredible play..his forechecking and play in the physical areas, these goals dont stand a chance. What if Matthews played like Marner and just coasted in the open areas? Not only is Matthews better physically, but just his compete and determination.

- Hes not just hitting players, hes falling and tipping the puck.
- hes not just hitting a player, hes passing while finishing a hit and pivoting to not skip a beat and going on the forecheck.

Heres another example of the above.

- Matthews forechecks, hits defender, knocks puck loose..passes to open Marner. Marner makes a play that is broken up. Matthews goes to front of the net, gets into a physical battle in front of goalie with the defender, Marner takes a shot from point and Matthews tips it.

Matthews is all over the greasy areas in this clip..while Marner is just operating in open areas. Matthews doing things not many can do, every thing Marner does in this clip a 4th liner could do.

3:41 of the clip

 

[thusk]

Thanks for taking the time to watch the videos.

Redirecting a puck with your skate for a dump in, is a "great play"?

if that help to keep the play alive, yes for sure

A short backhand lift pass is a basic NHL player pass. These are the best players in the world. That is a basic NHL play fot a top 9 forward.

a short backend pass in the perfect spot in no space between 4 defender to let matthews make a play, no its not a basic play sorry

Marner supporters are always giving Marner way too much credit for passes most NHL players can make. The difference being Marner plays with elite players who finish and so they end up on highlight reals.

Here is an example... this is a 3, 000,000 (Domi) and a $800,000 (Robertson) player making very quick passes in tight for a Marner season goal:

a you really serious. Domi made a fantastic defensive play... he made a pass into space without nobody between him and robertson and robertson pass had been deflected by pitts D. Do you really comparing a short pass into pass into pass with no pressure and and missed shited pass vs a perfect lifted pass a the perfect spot between 4 defender? You're really serious?!?!?!

Domi is a excellent passer, no doubt but this one was a basic one but he's the rigjt who created it for sure.

I can show you more excellent passes from 4th liners that Matthews finished in the season.

The point is, without Matthews incredible play..his forechecking and play in the physical areas, these goals dont stand a chance. What if Matthews played like Marner and just coasted in the open areas? Not only is Matthews better physically, but just his compete and determination.

- Hes not just hitting players, hes falling and tipping the puck.
- hes not just hitting a player, hes passing while finishing a hit and pivoting to not skip a beat and going on the forecheck.

Heres another example of the above.

- Matthews forechecks, hits defender, knocks puck loose..passes to open Marner. Marner makes a play that is broken up. Matthews goes to front of the net, gets into a physical battle in front of goalie with the defender, Marner takes a shot from point and Matthews tips it.

Matthews is all over the greasy areas in this clip..while Marner is just operating in open areas. Matthews doing things not many can do, every thing Marner does in this clip a 4th liner could do.

3:41 of the clip

watch matthews gm 6 goal who was in front of vasi and attract 3 D on him to create a huge screen on Vasilevskiy who never had time to see matthews shot?

gm 4 who lift stick kucherov and won a 1v2 battle on the board on rielly tying goal?

Marner cant play like matthews, he dont have Matthews body... He need to play smarter, using his stick much more, get a better positionning to be able to win the same battle. Marner if he want to have an impact, its with his speed and his ability to lift stick or be in passing lane and not with physical game because he will be outplayed for sure like Nylander, liljegren, robertson, sandin, brodie, rielly, cowan,