Does Marner get Boo’d?

[ACC1224]

Just realized I won't be there to 'boo' Opening Night, it's Thanksgiving Weekend.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

Just realized I won't be there to 'boo' Opening Night, it's Thanksgiving Weekend.

It’s the Saturday though, you got the Sunday and Monday to turkey it up!

 

[ACC1224]

It’s the Saturday though, you got the Sunday and Monday to turkey it up!

We spend the Holidays at the In-Laws in Montreal.

 

[thusk]

"Matthews was in line to receive the puck"? "Matthews overskated it" Was he supposed to be a mind reader, predicting the speed the puck would come off Marner’s stick? Also, what does "in line to receive the puck" even mean? I’ve never heard anyone say that before. But sure, if he was in line, the first in line was the Tampa player. Was it a pass or a clear? Are you saying it wasn’t a pass, but Matthews was still supposed to receive it? This is gold.

Okay, let’s say it was a clear. Why did Marner choose that spot to clear the puck? See the attached photo. The basic rule in the NHL is never clear it up the middle. Marner literally chose to send it over two Tampa players (red arrow), instead of going boards and out like any other smart play (yellow arrow). "Boards and out", you know, that thing coaches constantly preach? The only logical reason to go over two players is if he was trying to pass to Matthews.

It doesn’t matter if you want to argue it wasn’t a pass (it clearly was). Either way, both decisions were dumb. The smart play was boards and out, but Marner went for the hard, tricky option as usual. He hadn't learned from the flip he did against Montreal that went out of play, resultinfg in a penalty and cost the Leafs the series. But hey, it would’ve been ‘Magic Marner’ if it worked, and that’s all that seems to matter to Mitchy — because we all know how much he cares (about himself).


View attachment 907200

Send the puck on the board and get an icing or a delay of game penalty are not better option at the end. He just dump the puck on neutral zone.

The problem is nit the dump but everything happening after
1- Matthews losing his balance
2- Holl reaction who had been pretty slow
3- Marner /holl missing their coverage
4- Bunting who stop playing and been pretty slow to come back in defensive zone
5-Campbell unable to control a basic rebound

You can blame basically everybody on that goal. Its not the dump the isdue, its the reaction of everybody on the ice. This goal was a comedy of mistake

 

[ToneDog]

Had they beat CBJ and TTOE and had a decent showing in the 2nd rounds I think we’d be in a different mindset. But they didn’t.

Running back the same core playoff disappointment after disappointment when it is clear this core chewing up that much cap will never work will make a large part of the fanbase salty. If you want to be entertained, enjoy but if you want playoffs success, you are going to be salty watching the same rerun for 8 years. 57 years without a sniff of the cup for the biggest hockey market in the world.

 

[Nineteen67]

Running back the same core playoff disappointment after disappointment when it is clear this core chewing up that much cap will never work will make a large part of the fanbase salty. If you want to be entertained, enjoy but if you want playoffs success, you are going to be salty watching this rerun. 57 years without a sniff of the cup for the biggest hockey market in the world.

I think expectations for the core have change over the years, to the point very few expect them to win a Cup anytime soon, but winning a couple of rounds would be considered a success.

 

[Antropovsky]

Generally, when a player flips the puck out to neutral ice, the players skating up ice attempt to go where it is going to drop. You do not have to read minds to understand trajectory. In this instance, Matthews overskated that area by a bit, but the puck is still going towards him, not the Tampa player. As he turns to receive it, he falls, and that allows the Tampa player coming off the bench to pick up the puck from where Matthews was.

The puck is right up against the boards, and Marner doesn't have much time, making a "boards and out" play (which requires an angle) difficult. Matthews and that area of the ice is also pretty open when Marner is making that decision, while the near side boards in neutral ice were covered by a Tampa player. The general rule is about passing up through the middle of your zone, which didn't happen. It was flipped up high and out to neutral ice, and when doing that, you don't really want to lift it in line with the boards, as that puts you at high risk for an over the glass penalty.

... you know the pass lane for Matthews is actually there, but Marner undershoots the pass and also passes it too far to the left. Had he shot it hardrr and to the right, Matthews gets it.

Matthews had no time to understand the trajectory that you speak of, lol, its a small black puck that was flipped in the air BEHIND Matthews, who was in the middle of attempting to dash down the ice... i dont know what kind of superhuman skills you think players have but no NHL player going 15-20 miles per hr is going to see a pass and suddenly rewind themselves to a previous position. The below image is a screenshot of the puck clearly way too far beyond Matthews, who just started to fall. He wouldve needed to be stretch Armstrong to reach behind him and pick up this pass.

For him to have received this pass, he wouldve needed to transition at full speed tgo going backwards (which he appears to have attempted) and flip back into going forwards, while also fighting off the Tampa player who was square to the puck and skating towards it. It was a very low percentage possibility..if even possible at all. I believe Bunting was anticipating Matthews to receive the puck and he was attempting to get ahead of Hedman and thst wouldve created an odd man rush opportunity. However...Marners pass was bad.

How many times have we seen a player consider a pass like this, read the play, and decide its not there and just dump it? Happens all the time. Whose at fault? Marner..he made the dumb play, thst he didnt have the talent to execute.

Marner needs to lesrn thst under pressure he isnt able to make these plays. some can.. he isnt one of them. He did the same on the Montreal clear, and put it over the boards and got s delay of game penalty.

@Dekes For Days looking at this photo, explain again how Matthews falling was the reason Tampa got to this puck before Matthews. As you can see by the image, it doesnt matter if he falls or not.. Matthews would have to soemhow flip 180 degrees while in forward motion, to get to this puck and even still if that was even remotely possible, he wouldve had to fight off the tampa forward while attempting to continue skating backwards and flipping to forwards. Jeez dekes... you have some high expectations for Matthews.

 

[Antropovsky]

Whats ironic is that Max Domi executed the same pass this
postseason that Marner failed to make in 2022. Domi put it exactly where Matthews needed it for the game 2 game winning goal. In fact, Domi had less room for error than Marner did. Jeez...but i thought Marner was Gretzky? @Dekes For Days, why was 3 million Domi able to execute the play so beautifully but not 11 million Marner? Note that Domi's pass is literally in a sqft of area it needed to be for this play to work. See photos, and video below.

 

[thusk]

... you know the pass lane for Matthews is actually there, but Marner undershoots the pass and also passes it too far to the left. Had he shot it hardrr and to the right, Matthews gets it.

Matthews had no time to understand the trajectory that you speak of, lol, its a small black puck that was flipped in the air BEHIND Matthews, who was in the middle of attempting to dash down the ice... i dont know what kind of superhuman skills you think players have but no NHL player going 15-20 miles per hr is going to see a pass and suddenly rewind themselves to a previous position. The below image is a screenshot of the puck clearly way too far beyond Matthews, who just started to fall. He wouldve needed to be stretch Armstrong to reach behind him and pick up this pass.

For him to have received this pass, he wouldve needed to transition at full speed tgo going backwards (which he appears to have attempted) and flip back into going forwards, while also fighting off the Tampa player who was square to the puck and skating towards it. It was a very low percentage possibility..if even possible at all. I believe Bunting was anticipating Matthews to receive the puck and he was attempting to get ahead of Hedman and thst wouldve created an odd man rush opportunity. However...Marners pass was bad.

How many times have we seen a player consider a pass like this, read the play, and decide its not there and just dump it? Happens all the time. Whose at fault? Marner..he made the dumb play, thst he didnt have the talent to execute.

Marner needs to lesrn thst under pressure he isnt able to make these plays. some can.. he isnt one of them. He did the same on the Montreal clear, and put it over the boards and got s delay of game penalty.

@Dekes For Days looking at this photo, explain again how Matthews falling was the reason Tampa got to this puck before Matthews. As you can see by the image, it doesnt matter if he falls or not.. Matthews would have to soemhow flip 180 degrees while in forward motion, to get to this puck and even still if that was even remotely possible, he wouldve had to fight off the tampa forward while attempting to continue skating backwards and flipping to forwards. Jeez dekes... you have some high expectations for Matthews.

View attachment 907362

Its a basic dump on neutral zone... You should focusing less on the dump and more on reaction of every one after it. Pratically everybody on the ice did something wrong except Gio

 

[Antropovsky]

Its a basic dump on neutral zone... You should focusing less on the dump and more on reaction of every one after it. Pratically everybody on the ice did something wrong except Gio

Yup it was.. so why does Marner literally "dump it" across and over the tampa bay defender who narrowly misses gloving it down inside the leafs blueline, instead of merely just pushing it straight ahead along the ice where there were literally no defenders and a 1 vs 1 situation for Bunting and a defender? According to @Dekes For Days a simple off the boards or even straight shot like this is too challenging for a 11 million dollar Gretzky clone.

Regardless of whether Marner was trying to dump it or pass it (it was a pass)... he dumped it right in front of the tampa pench and behind his teammate. The puck landed tape to tape on a Tampa players stick and that player came back on the counter attack immediately, and Marner himself was least prepared for it. Had he put it straight ahead, it wouldve been an easier player and wouldve resulted in a one on one battle between Bunting and a defender. The reason nobody was ready was because Matthews and Bunting didnt expect Marner to flub the play as miserably as he did. Nobody probably did.. even Marner by the looks of how he defended the counter.

Its a set play the Leafs do often... I can show you several of the same plays made during the season and the same play was shown from game 2 game winning goal. With Domi of course making the pass to Matthews.

Domi proved in game 2 vs Boston that a skilled NHL player should hit their target and Marner had a much bigger opening to hit than Domi did, but failed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthews had no time to understand the trajectory that you speak of, lol, its a small black puck that was flipped in the air BEHIND Matthews, who was in the middle of attempting to dash down the ice... i dont know what kind of superhuman skills you think players have but no NHL player going 15-20 miles per hr is going to see a pass and suddenly rewind themselves to a previous position. The below image is a screenshot of the puck clearly way too far beyond Matthews, who just started to fall. He wouldve needed to be stretch Armstrong to reach behind him and pick up this pass.

For him to have received this pass, he wouldve needed to transition at full speed tgo going backwards (which he appears to have attempted) and flip back into going forwards, while also fighting off the Tampa player who was square to the puck and skating towards it. It was a very low percentage possibility..if even possible at all. I believe Bunting was anticipating Matthews to receive the puck and he was attempting to get ahead of Hedman and thst wouldve created an odd man rush opportunity. However...Marners pass was bad.

You continue to prove that you're not actually listening to any response. You only seem interested in tag spamming me to repeat your already disproven takes and get what I said wrong. It seems as if you're so used to posting misleading stills, that you don't realize that the puck isn't actually stationary. You keep acting like Matthews and the puck are getting further apart, but that is not true. The puck is still moving forwards Matthews, and will get to him first without the fall. You keep acting like the Tampa player is skating towards where the puck is in the still, and is going to intercept it there, but his initial trajectory is back towards the Tampa end, and he doesn't get to the puck until it's behind the center line, and behind where Matthews initially falls (as even seen in your image). Without the fall, there is no intercept.

It was a simple clear to neutral ice, towards a player going up ice. It happens dozens of times a game, and wouldn't have been notable without the fall. Hockey players are able to understand trajectory, and he doesn't need to be superhuman to estimate where it will drop. Basic humans have these wonderful things called necks and brains. Players do not skate up ice without any awareness of what is happening behind them. In the end, his miscalculation doesn't really matter anyway, because Matthews is still in position to get the puck, and without the fall, they likely get a decent offensive chance from the play.

 

[thusk]

Yup it was.. so why does Marner literally "dump it" across and over the tampa bay defender who narrowly misses gloving it down inside the leafs blueline, instead of merely just pushing it straight ahead along the ice where there were literally no defenders and a 1 vs 1 situation for Bunting and a defender? According to @Dekes For Days a simple off the boards or even straight shot like this is too challenging for a 11 million dollar Gretzky clone.

Regardless of whether Marner was trying to dump it or pass it (it was a pass)... he dumped it right in front of the tampa pench and behind his teammate. The puck landed tape to tape on a Tampa players stick and that player came back on the counter attack immediately, and Marner himself was least prepared for it. Had he put it straight ahead, it wouldve been an easier player and wouldve resulted in a one on one battle between Bunting and a defender. The reason nobody was ready was because Matthews and Bunting didnt expect Marner to flub the play as miserably as he did. Nobody probably did.. even Marner by the looks of how he defended the counter.

Its a set play the Leafs do often... I can show you several of the same plays made during the season and the same play was shown from game 2 game winning goal. With Domi of course making the pass to Matthews.

Domi proved in game 2 vs Boston that a skilled NHL player should hit their target and Marner had a much bigger opening to hit than Domi did, but failed.

View attachment 907387
View attachment 907388

1-Bunting was cover pretty closely by hedman, he was not an option...The only option he had from the board was to dump it and hope to dont get an icing or delay of game penalty. or making an other choice and dump it in middle ice ...

2- Even with the dump, it was a 3v3, a pretty basic hockey situation. that doesn't gave a breakaway or 2v1 or whatever. The dump IS NOT the reason of why this goal happened.

3- Basically everybody except Gio made a mistake ( including Campbell) so you can blame 5 of 6 player on the ice. Matthews felt, Holl was out of position all the time on the rush, marner missed his coverage; never Bunting made any effort to defend ( he completly forfeit on the play ). Campbell cant control a basic rebound right in front of him and open his five hole for no reason.

4- you can't compared Marner dump from defensive vorner vs Domu who was basically on the blue line... Its clearly not the same thing and if you're unable to see the difference, sorry i don't know what to say.

 

[Skullz]

What contract are we okay with extending Marner?

Personally, I would be willing to do the Nylander deal: maybe up to 12 million because of the rising cap.

I understand all the frustration, believe me, I'm as mad as anyone regarding the playoff futility. End of the day though, we cannot let him walk for nothing, we're on the verge on mediocrity as it is.

 

[Gallagbi]

1-Bunting was cover pretty closely by hedman, he was not an option...The only option he had from the board was to dump it and hope to dont get an icing or delay of game penalty. or making an other choice and dump it in middle ice ...

2- Even with the dump, it was a 3v3, a pretty basic hockey situation. that doesn't gave a breakaway or 2v1 or whatever. The dump IS NOT the reason of why this goal happened.

3- Basically everybody except Gio made a mistake ( including Campbell) so you can blame 5 of 6 player on the ice. Matthews felt, Holl was out of position all the time on the rush, marner missed his coverage; never Bunting made any effort to defend ( he completly forfeit on the play ). Campbell cant control a basic rebound right in front of him and open his five hole for no reason.

4- you can't compared Marner dump from defensive vorner vs Domu who was basically on the blue line... Its clearly not the same thing and if you're unable to see the difference, sorry i don't know what to say.

Turnover is on Marner, he should have released behind the net so the D could exit. In the corner he draws a few TB players, so there's time and space there.

Instead he turns it over in the neutral zone forcing the D to reset gap with an oncoming attack. He blows coverage on the boards then creating an odd man situation low.

Others could have helped but there's a few critical mistakes he makes in the sequence

 

[DarkKnight]

This thread title is hilarious. Anyone want to make a side bet you don’t hear ANY boos, I’ll give you great odds? Peak HF Boards.

Move on.

 

[ACC1224]

This thread title is hilarious. Anyone want to make a side bet you don’t hear ANY boos, I’ll give you great odds? Peak HF Boards.

Move on.

They'll be a couple I'm sure, you don't need to be a fan to buy a ticket.
Remember the idiot with the Waffles? They'll be a few embracing the idiocy no doubt.

 

[myleafs]

What contract are we okay with extending Marner?

Personally, I would be willing to do the Nylander deal: maybe up to 12 million because of the rising cap.

I understand all the frustration, believe me, I'm as mad as anyone regarding the playoff futility. End of the day though, we cannot let him walk for nothing, we're on the verge on mediocrity as it is.

So we are on the verge of mediocrity and you want to run it back for the next 8 yrs?

 

[Skullz]

So we are on the verge of mediocrity and you want to run it back for the next 8 yrs?

How do we get better by letting Marner walk? I'm not saying to resign him at all costs.

 

[myleafs]

How do we get better by letting Marner walk? I'm not saying to resign him at all costs.

You said give him 12.........If we are on the verge of mediocrity now with him, why would you keep him for another 8 yrs? I don't know if we get better using his cap on other things but its better than just running it back and remaining the same, no? No guts no glory. The no guts approach is why the leafs are stuck in the mud, the taking chances and making gutsy moves is why Vegas has the glory.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How do we get better by letting Marner walk? I'm not saying to resign him at all costs.

We get better by spending that cap space on some players who don't get smaller as the games get bigger.

Marner's great for the regular season, and the the first few games of the playoffs. After that though, once players get settled in and adjust to the tight checking defensive type of hockey that is always played in the playoffs, Marner contributes very little and often does really dumb things that cost us games. The most likely scenario post Marner assuming we spend that money wisely is that we get less points during the regular season, but are a much tougher out in the playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How do we get better by letting Marner walk?

Step 1: Throw away one of the best players in the world.
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit.

How could such a well thought out plan ever fail!

 

[rumman]

How do we get better by letting Marner walk? I'm not saying to resign him at all costs.

Addition by subtraction, use his cap hit to improve the team elsewhere, and start to change the identity and character of the team………..

 

[Skullz]

Addition by subtraction, use his cap hit to improve the team elsewhere, and start to change the identity and character of the team………..

With what assets will we get these players? Stars aren't available in FA very often.

 

[rumman]

With what assets will we get these players? Stars aren't available in FA very often.

news flash, UFA's are available every year...........

 

[Skullz]

news flash, UFA's are available every year.........

True, but I specified "stars"