Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

[joe dirte]

At the very least be among the top players in your position in at least 1-2 years. And multiple other elite years. Marleau has a ton of good, but never truly elite years.

I think your criteria narrows down the number of candidates to below the number of spots they let in every year though.

And that's the point really - I don't necessarily disagree with your criteria, but there would be quite a few years there would be no inductees going by that criteria. It's not that your wrong. It's just not the standards they use.

Going by YOUR standards, Marleau (and many other players already IN the hall of fame) would not get in. Going by the standards they use, Marleau has a pretty good argument to get in.

 

[GreatGonzo]

You don't need "consistency at a high level" if you make it to 600 goals. That goal total alone is enough for him to make it. Even if he retires now at the 550 he's at will most likely be enough to get him in.

There are very few players in the Hall that are in just for numbers and without somewhat elite seasons. And the ones that are shouldn’t be there.

Again, blinded by the numbers. He’s been a good healthy player, but he has rarely been an elite goal scorer. How can you want a player with 500+ goals in the Hall who isn’t overall an elite goal scorer? How many of those are in the Hall?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Sundin is a HOF.

Marleau has pretty close numbers to Sundin.

So yes HOF.

Marleau isn’t and never will be on Sundins level. Terrible comparison.

 

[MyBudJT]

There are very few players in the Hall that are in just for numbers and without somewhat elite seasons. And the ones that are shouldn’t be there.

Again, blinded by the numbers. He’s been a good healthy player, but he has rarely been an elite goal scorer. How can you want a player with 500+ goals in the Hall who isn’t overall an elite goal scorer? How many of those are in the Hall?

Define elite goalscorer. Marleau is with an elite group of players that have scored 15+ 20 goal seasons. He'd be at 17+ if there wasn't a couple of NHL lockouts.

How many players have scored 550+ goals, and are not considered an 'elite goal scorer'?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Define elite goalscorer. Marleau is with an elite group of players that have scored 15+ 20 goal seasons. He'd be at 17+ if there wasn't a couple of NHL lockouts.

How many players have scored 550+ goals, and are not considered an 'elite goal scorer'?

Ok so why is 20 goals suddenly the standard? He only has 6 seasons with 30 goals and 1 with 40, his highest being 44. He only has 3 seasons at a PPG or better, he’ll hes only hit 70 points 6 times out of 21 years. And nearly all of his best years he was playing on Thornton’s wing or the PP.

Marleaus goal scoring has mainly become a product of just being good enough and healthy. He’s compiled 111 goals in 387 games over the last 5 years so far, ultimately breaking the 500 goal mark.

I mean I never heard any HOF talk about Marleau before moving to Toronto....I mean how strong of a case could he had been in the first place if moving to a larger Canadien market suddenly boosted his HOF chances?

 

[GreatGonzo]

How many players have scored 550+ goals, and are not considered an 'elite goal scorer'?

Well Tkachuk has 538 goals with more elite goal scoring seasons

Peter Bondra has 503 with more. Verbeek, Turgeon, all with better goal scoring seasons. 550 is a lot, but let’s not ignore the context.

 

[SladeWilson23]

There are very few players in the Hall that are in just for numbers and without somewhat elite seasons. And the ones that are shouldn’t be there.

Again, blinded by the numbers. He’s been a good healthy player, but he has rarely been an elite goal scorer. How can you want a player with 500+ goals in the Hall who isn’t overall an elite goal scorer? How many of those are in the Hall?

You don't need to be an elite player to make it into the HOF.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

ultimately hes never been in the discussion for top 5 in the league at any time in his career.

I'll give him consistency but he's never been good enough at any given time to deserve to be in.

 

[MeowLeafs]

Leafs fan here.
I've always liked Marleau, but I don't think he deserves to be in.
I do think that a guy like Sundin, although he's never won a major award (e.g. hart, art ross, etc), absolutely deserves to be in the hof. But Sundin was on another tier compared to Marleau.

 

[GreatGonzo]

You don't need to be an elite player to make it into the HOF.

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose? Just because there have been a few bad inductions doesn’t mean that overall you don’t need to be. That’s nonesense.

 

[My3Sons]

So he's Don Sutton?

 

[fasterthanlight]

Watched Marleau for more-or-less his entire career. He's really good, but I don't think his HoF worthy. But, no --- he didn't ride Thornton's coat-tails. He didn't play on the same line as him for most of the time they were on the same team.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose? Just because there have been a few bad inductions doesn’t mean that overall you don’t need to be. That’s nonesense.

Andreychuk and Housley are not bad inductions if that's who you're referring to.

And no, the HOF is not just for elite players.

 

[Fantomas]

Marleau needs to go back in time and become a better player than he was for him to be a HoF.

He was never a top 10 player in the league. Ever. Heck, there is even a strong arguement he was never even top 20 over the course of a season.

Are all of the players in the Hall of Fame right now better than Marleau / had better careers than Marleau?

 

[Fantomas]

In what world?

Let’s look at the previous 5 NHL inductees and tell me how Marleau compares

Martin St Louis
- 2x Art Ross Winner
- Hart winner
- Pearson winner
- 1x First Team All Star
- 4x Second Team All Star
- 1x 100 pt season
- 4x 90 point season
- 1x Stanley Cup
- 1x Olympic Gold

Martin Brodeur
- 4x Vezina Winner
- 3x First Team All Star
- 4x Second Team All Star
- 3x Stanley Cup
- 5x Jennings Trophy
- 3x Hart Nomiee
- 9x Vezina Nominee
- 1st overall in wins

Teemu Selanne
- 1x Rocket Richard (But lead the league 3 times before it existed)
- 2x First Team All Star
- 2x Second Team All Star
- Stanley Cup
- Calder Trophy
- 76 Goal Season as a Rookie (record)
- 3x 50+ Goal season
- 3x 100+ point season
- 5x 90+ point season
- 6x 40+ Goal season
- 684 Goals
- 1457 points

Mark Recchi
- 4x Stanely Cups as a player
- 1x Second Team All Star
- 3x 100 point season
- 1x 50 goal season
- 4x 90+ point seasons
- Scored 123 points in a season
- 1533 points

Paul Kariya
- 3x First Team All Star
- 2x Second Team All Star
- 1x 50 goal season
- 3x 40+ goal season
- 2x 100 point season
- 402 goals in 989 games (.406 GPG)
- 989 points in 989 games

Why cherrypick names? What about how Marleau compares to inductees like Bernie Federko or Joe Mullen?

 

[trentmccleary]

He shouldn't be inducted. If he ever is, he'll be held as one of the bigger mistakes the committee has ever made. Generational and elite players are no brainers. A small minority will complain about franchise players, but they're generally accepted. Marleau was none of those. He probably would have fit well as roughly the 4-5th best player on a good team; like the 3rd wheel on a first line or the anchor or a 2nd.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If Marleau makes the HoF then it will lose all meaning. He's not a Hall of Fame level player, he's never been elite, he's never even been a top 20 player in the league.

 

[joe dirte]

Well Tkachuk has 538 goals with more elite goal scoring seasons

Peter Bondra has 503 with more. Verbeek, Turgeon, all with better goal scoring seasons. 550 is a lot, but let’s not ignore the context.

yeah, these guys all have similar goal totals, mostly because they simply played in a higher scoring era for much longer. That's just as much context as Marleau playing longer.

 

[joe dirte]

Andreychuk and Housley are not bad inductions if that's who you're referring to.

And no, the HOF is not just for elite players.

I'd say Andreychuk definitely is.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Why cherrypick names? What about how Marleau compares to inductees like Bernie Federko or Joe Mullen?

I just listed the past 5 inductees...? How is that cherry picking?

And yes, Mullen and Federko deserve to be in the Hall well over Marleau. Did you just pick two names out of a hat that you didn’t recognise?

Federko had 4 100+ point seasons and was over PPG his entire career. One of the truly underrated players of his generation in both the regular season and the playoffs, and it’s a shame it was wasted on a period of shaky ownership for the Blues.

Joey Mullen at his peak was one of the best shooters to ever play the game and was a massive part of two (and a half) Stanley Cup teams, as well as a first team all star.

 

[GreatGonzo]

yeah, these guys all have similar goal totals, mostly because they simply played in a higher scoring era for much longer. That's just as much context as Marleau playing longer.

Bondra and Tkachuk were both among the top goal scorers during the DPE.

Marleau isn’t the victim of any era though. His adjusted goals aren’t any more impressive in any era. Marleau playing longer and being able to maintain a 20 or so goal pace isn’t the same as having multiple 40 or 50 goal seasons. He’s played longer sure, but why reward him for simply being healthy? He hasn’t been a goal scoring threat in any way in 8 years.

Andreychuk and Housley are not bad inductions if that's who you're referring to.

And no, the HOF is not just for elite players.

They were very bad and controversial inductions.....but they still had more reasons to be inducted than Marleau ever will.

So then what is your standard for the Hall? Who’s the last “non elite” player to make the Hall?

 

[666]

Marleau is right on the line. If he gets in he'll be one of the worst. On the other hand everyone with more goals is or will be in the hall. It's close.

 

[Voight]

Nope, but it'll be a nice cherry on top.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Are all of the players in the Hall of Fame right now better than Marleau / had better careers than Marleau?

Of players inducted post 1980? Only forwards I can think of that were debatably worse than Marleau off the top of my head are Nieuwendyk and Andreychuk, both of whom...

1) Have more Cups
2) better ppg (though Andreychuk’s numbers are similar when adjusted)
3) are widely considered to be unworthy/controversial selections.

Marleau’s best case scenario is stacking up as “close or equal” to two of the weakest inductees in decades. One mistake does not justify another. Let the bad ones be exceptions, not the new lowered standards.

 

[NinjaKick]

I'm impressed most with his games played and consistency
If it were up to me I would put him in the Hof